Indian Wells - Rafael Nadal urges tougher penalties

[Deleted member 762343]

It has everything to do with the general topic as I imagine you know. We are talking about how the players perceive Djokovic and Nadal, including how genuine they are, and the players are around them far more than you or I are.

Why do you suppose Djokovic doesn't even get nominated for the sportsmanship award year after year much less win it? The players are the ones voting on that, right?

It’s an award for on court behavior, not genuineness. Of course a player who spends his time screaming and smashing rackets like a lunatic isn’t gonna get it. Nadal, on the other hand, never once broke a tennis racket.

 

[Rattie]

All players are "fake" to some degree and say artificial stuff. It doesn’t mean they’re liars but they tend to say things that help their public image and portrays them in a good way. Djokovic does it, Federer does it, almost everyone does it. Nadal tends to overdo it by repeatedly saying things that help him look good and sometimes it gets to the point where he sounds like a robot, which doesn’t mean he’s an a**hole or dishonest in day to day life. Him being being a nice and honest guy or not is beside the point.

Thank you for making the effort to stay polite and respectful, that way we can have a debate healthier than the stupid one we had about color complementarity.

Have to confess that wasn’t me. I didn’t post on that subject.
I take your point, it’s unfortunate that your original post on this subject read rather differently to how you’re couching it now.
Perceptions differ I guess, he doesn’t come over like that to me. Perhaps the difficulties he has with the English language don’t help, I’ve often noticed how much better he comes over in translated articles.

 

[intrepidish]

It’s an award for on court behavior, not genuineness. Of course a player who sepends his time screaming and smashing rackets like a lunatic isn’t gonna get it. Nadal, on the other hand, never once broke a tennis racket.

Surely you see the connection. Moreover, how genuine is a guy you yourself just described as "screaming and smashing racquets like a lunatic" when he then talks about peace and love or throws affection from his chest to the crowd a few minutes later?

Doesn't it seem reasonable to at least suspect that Djokovic actually is the fierce man who 'screams like a lunatic' and the rest of his persona is an artifice?

 

[MadariKatu]

Have to confess that wasn’t me. I didn’t post on that subject.
I take your point, it’s unfortunate that your original post on this subject read rather differently to how you’re couching it now.
Perceptions differ I guess, he doesn’t come over like that to me. Perhaps the difficulties he has with the English language don’t help, I’ve often noticed how much better he comes over in translated articles.

Was gonna say this. If you understand both english and spanish, the difference it really obvious

 

[travlerajm]

He's right but it's not always about the willingness to punish the players, it's the loss of revenue and publicity for the events that ultimately decides how harsh the punishment is. Do you really think if Zverev made no money for anyone but his own team that they would hesitate to ban him for 8 weeks? Would he get a slap on the wrist and a warning then?

There needs to be a strict system in place and it shouldn't go to some panel of judges to decide how much a player should be punished. It should be a strictly outlined thing such as if you do something like what Zverev did, it is an automatic 5 week ban. Also it should apply to all players, popular/unpopular, famous/not famous, male/female should have no baring on the decision.

That’s a short term way to look at it. The sport will likely make more money in the long run if umpires are viewed as untouchable authorities, and the best players are not viewed as spoiled narcissistic brats.

 

[Rattie]

Was gonna say this. If you understand both english and spanish, the difference it really obvious

I’ve always made an allowance for that. You’re lucky you can understand him when he’s talking in Spanish.

 

[clayqueen]

Alongside his fantastic tennis talent and tennis skills, Rafa's become a good politician. He really knows what to say and when to say it. A truly great guy. One thing, though, that I have with those finest people is that they aren't as honest as they appear to be. This is why I prefer Novak's character that, to me, is plenty more honest. But I guess the Internet's full of all kinda Djoker BS now; not in my books

Novak is one of the worst behaved tennis players in the history of the game. He's got to room to talk.

 

[Deleted member 762343]

Surely you see the connection. Moreover, how genuine is a guy you yourself just described as "screaming and smashing racquets like a lunatic" when he then talks about peace and love or throws affection from his chest to the crowd a few minutes later?

Doesn't it seem reasonable to at least suspect that Djokovic actually is the fierce 'lunatic' who 'screams like a lunatic' and the rest of his persona is an artifice?

Because you think that someone who has anger issues and struggles to contain himself can’t genuinely have the desire to be a calmer person ? You’re oversimplifying things. Djokovic’s antics on court are the result of him getting frustrated and letting his emotions take over when he’s mad at himself for playing badly, that’s a human impulse and not necessarily a representation of how he thinks he should behave in those situations.

 

[intrepidish]

Because you think that someone who has anger issues and struggles to contain himself can’t genuinely have the desire to be a calmer person ? You’re oversimplifying things. Djokovic’s antics on court are the result of him getting frustrated and letting his emotions take over when he’s mad at himself for playing badly, that’s a human impulse and not necessarily a representation of how he thinks he should behave in those situations.

Of course there can be conflicting emotions and attitudes within a single person something one would be well advised to keep in mind for all players indeed.

The obvious issue here however is that there are many untoward instances which jump out from Novak's career and they have arguably gotten worse over time, not better, even as he has adopted more and more florid mannerisms such as the 'throwing of love'.

At some point, many people might draw the reasonable conclusion that the reason for this is that his performance of a person wanting to share love with others is simply not that coherent with the underlying character of the person in question which is what then causes these explosions to be all the more fierce.

And many pros who are around these guys a lot more than you and I might very well have seen this even more clearly such that when they think about even supporting a nomination for the sportsmanship award, much less actually voting for the guy it's a definite non-starter.

 

[Deleted member 762343]

Have to confess that wasn’t me. I didn’t post on that subject.
I take your point, it’s unfortunate that your original post on this subject read rather differently to how you’re couching it now.
Perceptions differ I guess, he doesn’t come over like that to me. Perhaps the difficulties he has with the English language don’t help, I’ve often noticed how much better he comes over in translated articles.

Yeah, had to check and found out I confused you with someone else that has a similar username. After all it seemed odd that a guy like him would become much more respectful and humble all of a sudden, but anyway.

 

[clayqueen]

People should consider that Rafa runs an international academy, the ethos of which is, that:

The students at the Academy receive life coaching in which they develop and put into practice virtues such as hard work, humility, tolerance, patience, respect, integrity, discipline, order and commitment.

If Rafa fails to demonstrate any of those qualities, the media, commenttors, experts and his students would be the first to pick up on it. If throughout his career, he had not demonstrated those qualities, his academy would have had no credibility.

No one is advocating that players shouldn't make their point to the umpire if they think he is wrong but that is miles away from verbally isulting them or using violence. Of course Djokovic does not demonstrate those qualities that's why he is always on the side of the offender because he can relate to them.

 

[clayqueen]

Surely you see the connection. Moreover, how genuine is a guy you yourself just described as "screaming and smashing racquets like a lunatic" when he then talks about peace and love or throws affection from his chest to the crowd a few minutes later?

^^^ This.

 

[clayqueen]

It’s an award for on court behavior, not genuineness.

What does this even mean? If Rafa was badly behaved, surely after 20 years on tour his mask would have slipped by now.

 

[insideguy]

Personally I think it’s crazy how atp and wta let players treat their officials.

 

[Visionary]

Has Djoko honestly explained why his earlier PCR test (on 16 Dec.) had a higher confirmation code than the later one (on 22 Dec.) ?

That test wasn't as dangerous as the two words "Novak" and "Djokovic" for the whole Aussie population.

 

[Visionary]

Novak is one of the worst behaved tennis players in the history of the game. He's got to room to talk.

subjective history that is

 

[intrepidish]

That test wasn't as dangerous as the two words "Novak" and "Djokovic" for the whole Aussie population.

Good thing Australia and now the US passed the test with flying colors and sent Novak back to Monaco/Marbella/The Bahamas...

 

[octobrina10]

Pull off what for decades ? Nobody said he’s an evil being that’s been keeping a terrible and shocking secret for years, we’re talking about classic PR stuff.

As for "PR stuff", Rafa's PR & Communications manager (since 2006), Benito Pérez-Barbadillo, said about a decade ago: "Rafa is a dream to work with because he understands the work, he gets it. He’s a nice guy, easy to work with. I don’t even have to brief him on things. He says whatever he wants. I just tell him what the situation is."

Rafa's parents raised him to be a good person. He says in his autobiography : ¤¤ But my values as a person and my way of being, which ultimately is what underlines my game, come from my father and mother. It's true that Toni has insisted I have to behave well on court, set an example, never throw a racket to the floor in anger, something I have never, ever done. But - and this is the point - if I had been brought up differently at home, I might not have paid him any attention. My parents always imposed a lot of discipline on me. ...Both my parents and, for that matter, my uncle Toni have always said that, never mind the tennis, their biggest desire was that I should grow up to be a good person. ¤¤

 

[lordlosh]

Funny words coming frim a guy that his whole career are cheating, aka time violation.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Alongside his fantastic tennis talent and tennis skills, Rafa's become a good politician. He really knows what to say and when to say it. A truly great guy. One thing, though, that I have with those finest people is that they aren't as honest as they appear to be. This is why I prefer Novak's character that, to me, is plenty more honest. But I guess the Internet's full of all kinda Djoker BS now; not in my books

Not sure what you are trying to infer, but completely disagree.
Nadal has demonstrated character well beyond just the court since he was young.
Djo is about as disingenuous as can be through his actions and then consequent marble mouth commentary. Not to mention off-court actions.

 

[octobrina10]

Funny words coming frim a guy that his whole career are cheating, aka time violation.

You are costantly cheating readers by falsely accusing Rafa.

 

[DSH]

Of course Nadal wants tougher penalties on the likes of Zverev and Djokovic. These are guys who can beat him on hard court and even on clay court. Zverev is arguably the only guy in the Indian Wells draw who can beat Nadal, so of course he'd love to see him banned.

Zverev is relevant at Madrid and maybe in Rome.
But he is quite vulnerable on clay and at RG he only reached the semifinals last year because he did not face any top ten in the previous rounds.

 

[Dartagnan64]

After a 2 year pandemic I’ve come to the conclusion that the only solution to things is education. People are just too dumb these days and the worst thing is, they don’t realize how dumb they are.

So just like the answer to vaccine hesitancy should be forced classes in science and infectious disease management, rather than mandates, the answer to this type of behavior should be forced anger management courses, public service duty.

We react with sticks and carrots but we should be reacting with ways to educate and train people to behave with more intelligence.

 

[wangs78]

Rafa's right. When Zverev gets off with nothing more than a warning it does signal to kids that doing what Zverev did aint that bad and could even be cool.

 

[Bartelby]

Nadal should let the officials apply the rules and not interfere.

 

[Deleted member 762343]

As for "PR staff", Rafa's PR & Communications manager (since 2006), Benito Pérez-Barbadillo, said about a decade ago: "Rafa is a dream to work with because he understands the work, he gets it. He’s a nice guy, easy to work with. I don’t even have to brief him on things. He says whatever he wants. I just tell him what the situation is."

Rafa's parents raised him to be a good person. He says in his autobiography : ¤¤ But my values as a person and my way of being, which ultimately is what underlines my game, come from my father and mother. It's true that Toni has insisted I have to behave well on court, set an example, never throw a racket to the floor in anger, something I have never, ever done. But - and this is the point - if I had been brought up differently at home, I might not have paid him any attention. My parents always imposed a lot of discipline on me. ...Both my parents and, for that matter, my uncle Toni have always said that, never mind the tennis, their biggest desire was that I should grow up to be a good person. ¤¤

I said "PR stuff", not "PR staff".

 

[octobrina10]

I said "PR stuff", not "PR staff".

Thanks for pointing out my mistake. I edited.

 

[TimHenmanATG]

What was Rafa's biggest meltdown?

Having watched him for nearly two decades, I honestly can't remember him making a prize pillock of himself in a similar vein to Zverev's embarrassing antics down in Acapulco.

 

[octobrina10]

Nadal should let the officials apply the rules and not interfere.

Rafa hasn't interfered. He answered a question from a journalist at his pre-tournament press conference. He did his job.

 

[I Am Finnish]

What was Rafa's biggest meltdown?

Having watched him for nearly two decades, I honestly can't remember him making a prize pillock of himself in a similar vein to Zverev's embarrassing antics down in Acapulco.

Not really a meltdown but he had some issues with Bernardes

 

[intrepidish]

Not really a meltdown but he had some issues with Bernardes

The reason we remember that though is that in all his roughly 20 years it's about as heated as it has gotten...which for one of these other guys would be just a normal day at the office.

I mean there's Roger's 'I'll talk when I want to talk' etc. and no one expects perfection at all times, but by and large, there is such a huge difference between Nadal and Roger on the one hand (along with some others) and the guys we're regularly discussing on here who seem like they never had anyone tell them no all their lives.

 

[Visionary]

Not sure what you are trying to infer, but completely disagree.
Nadal has demonstrated character well beyond just the court since he was young.
Djo is about as disingenuous as can be through his actions and then consequent marble mouth commentary. Not to mention off-court actions.

I really don't wanna bicker about this but when I am "not sure" what others try to comment on star athletes I don't "completely disagree" with them. Makes no sense any other way, does it? Yet, I am pretty sure you're sure that early bird Rafa's not been as outspoken as this grown angel one. People generally love the sound of the goodwill diplomacy more than the devil's advocate who sees the two sides of the coin better.

 

[Mustard]

What was Rafa's biggest meltdown?

2007 Dubai against Youzhny on the first set set point?

 

[AgassiSuperSlam11]

What was Rafa's biggest meltdown?

Having watched him for nearly two decades, I honestly can't remember him making a prize pillock of himself in a similar vein to Zverev's embarrassing antics down in Acapulco.

Biggest meltdown is when he went nuts on tennis umpire Carlos Bernandes. He used the word "barbiridad" which translates to atrocity, in reality that the word is a tad vulgar to express something is nonsensical. He also told Carlos that he didn't want him to officiate anymore of his matches and told him "tranquilo" essentially be quiet while he spoke. Never saw Nadal angrier at any Umpire. Of course, this is nothing close to the Sasha incident.

 

[Richard Linden]

I really don't wanna bicker about this but when I am "not sure" what others try to comment on star athletes I don't "completely disagree" with them. Makes no sense any other way, does it? Yet, I am pretty sure you're sure that early bird Rafa's not been as outspoken as this grown angel one. People generally love the sound of the goodwill diplomacy more than the devil's advocate who sees the two sides of the coin better.

Does this make sense in your native language?

 

[Visionary]

Does this make sense in your native language?

No it doesn't. I am soooo sorry. You can continue posting your sense.
Peace

 

[Richard Linden]

No it doesn't.

That's what I thought.

 

[Sudacafan]

Rafa Torquemada Nadal Parera.

 

[socallefty]

I thought most people on this board including me thought Zverev should have been suspended for a few months as his behavior bordered on attempted assault of an official. Now people are complaining because Nadal agrees with their own view??

It is not fake coming from Nadal considering that he doesn’t break/throw racquets, kick balls, hit balls into the crowd etc. in anger.

 

[bullfan]

Seriously…. why is being slow worse than being violent? Seriously…. Not sure why violence is considered manly… or macho.. It is so weak….

 

[duaneeo]

Ban the competition win more tournaments

Zverev isn't competition.

Oh wait, this is BO3. My bad.

 

[clayqueen]

Funny words coming frim a guy that his whole career are cheating, aka time violation.

This is fake news spread by commentators and players who think the only way to hamper Rafa is to take time away from him. The enforcement was brought in on the back of Federer as president of the players' council in 2012, effective from January 2013, whilst Rafa was off the tour for 7 months with Hoffa's Syndrome. All the enforcement has done is improve Rafa's attacking game and he actually played far better when he came back in 2013 and ended the year as #1 even though he missed Australia. That proves that his game doesn't rely on how much time he takes between points.

Norrie tried to use the TV rule against Rafa at RG and the umpire told him that Rafa was playing within the time limit.

French Open tennis - 'It's reasonable' - Rafael Nadal defended by umpire with Cameron Norrie angry at delays

'It's a reasonable amount of time.' The umpire had to defend Rafael Nadal with Britain's Cameron Norrie not overly happy with being made to wait during their third-round match at Roland Garros. Norrie was taking on the formidable challenge of facing the 'King of Clay' at his home from home at Roland Garros on Court Suzanne Lenglen on Saturday afternoon.

French Open tennis - 'It's reasonable' - Rafael Nadal defended by umpire with Cameron Norrie angry at delays

Cameron Norrie was not happy with the pace of the match against the 'King of Clay' Rafael Nadal at the French Open and the umpire defended the Spaniard.

www.eurosport.co.uk

Rafa doesn't take any more time than the majority of players. Shapovalov threw his toys out of his pram in Australia crying about how Rafa is given too much time because the umpires are all corrupt then it turned out that Shapovalov's average time between points was also over the time limit.

 

[dimadima]

Alongside his fantastic tennis talent and tennis skills, Rafa's become a good politician. He really knows what to say and when to say it. A truly great guy. One thing, though, that I have with those finest people is that they aren't as honest as they appear to be. This is why I prefer Novak's character that, to me, is plenty more honest. But I guess the Internet's full of all kinda Djoker BS now; not in my books

Djokovic is honest? The more I read your posts the more I think you are a Serbian troll. Next time write some admiration posts about Lavrov.

 

[clayqueen]

Nafa likes his competitors banned

I think you should direct your frustration at Djokovic. It's all down to him that he is banned from entering certain countries which prevents him from playing. It's got nothing to do with Rafa.

I can't understand why Djokofans have this inferiority complex about Rafa; even on twitter every tweet showing Rafa being mobbed by fans is interjectted with Djokofans piping up blaming Rafa for Djokovic being on the sidelines saying Rafa is in Djoker's shadow with adoring fans when every right thinking person on earth knows that is absolute tosh.

 

[insideguy]

Djokovic is honest? The more I read your posts the more I think you are a Serbian troll. Next time write some admiration posts about Lavrov.

Wait.You think He is a Serbian troll. Really?

 

[Richard Linden]

Wait.You think He is a Serbian troll. Really?

You're right, he might not be Serbian. Poster should know better.

 

[Visionary]

Djokovic is honest? The more I read your posts the more I think you are a Serbian troll. Next time write some admiration posts about Lavrov.

Yes, I'll do that. But before I start on some other thread, of course, I want to express my warm approval of genuine rookie TTW users who've been reading my posts so closely.

 

[dimadima]

Yes, I'll do that. But before I start on some other thread, of course, I want to express my warm approval of genuine rookie TTW users who've been reading my posts so closely.

So you think that number of posts (rookie tag under username) has something to do with the quality of content a person delivers in his posts? When I look at number of your posts I can only tell that you are a lonely person with a lot of free time and calling people names because of their number of posts just makes me sad about you. You can have millions of posts on this forum but if you write that Djokovic is honest - that does not make you smart in anyone's eyes. Djokovic is a smart liar and when you call him honest it makes either a fool or a troll. Good luck with your writings on this forum. I wish you to reach 1.000.000 posts by the end of this decade and be proud of yourself.

 

[clayqueen]

All players are "fake" to some degree and say artificial stuff. It doesn’t mean they’re liars but they tend to say things that help their public image and portrays them in a good way. Djokovic does it, Federer does it, almost everyone does it. Nadal tends to overdo it by repeatedly saying things that help him look good and sometimes it gets to the point where he sounds like a robot, which doesn’t mean he’s an a**hole or dishonest in day to day life. Him being being a nice and honest guy or not is beside the point.

Thank you for making the effort to stay polite and respectful, that way we can have a debate healthier than the stupid one we had about color complementarity. Edit : wait, that wasn’t with you. Just similar usernames, my mistake.

The Federer image is manufactured. Djokovic's character is so flawed that everyone can see through the veneer. Rafa is genuinely who he is. His team have stayed with him forever. Everyone who comes across him says he is genuine and this podcast puts it very well.

5 Live Sport: All About - Rafael Nadal: The 21-time Grand Slam champion - BBC Sounds

Jonathan Overend reflects on Nadal winning his 21st Grand Slam.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Visionary]

So you think that number of posts (rookie tag under username) has something to do with the quality of content a person delivers in his posts?

quality reading :LOL

When I look at number of your posts I can only tell that you are a lonely person with a lot of free time and calling people names because of their number of posts just makes me sad about you.

Stop anal yzing others, being sad and read more closely! You're a rookie, aren't you? That's not your name, is it?

You can have millions of posts on this forum but if you write that Djokovic is honest - that does not make you smart in anyone's eyes

Sure it's not about the number of posts but the number of posts on the topics of TTW. How many of those posts on the topics will you have one day given that you're addressing me so much? What do you think?

Djokovic is a smart liar and when you call him honest it makes either a fool or a troll.

Yeah, Novak's liar, I am a troll and you are the greatest TTW rookie ever :LOL

Good luck with your writings on this forum. I wish you to reach 1.000.000 posts by the end of this decade and be proud of yourself.

I am more hopeful than you can be obviously.

Thank you for the enlightenment