Indian wells v miami

D

Drlexus

Banned
Indian wells a highligjt part of the year for me along with majors. I find it sad when indian wells is over and cant get into miami at all.

Can anyone make a case for miami being as big as indian wells? I just dont see it other than being at same time as miami sound festival and encouraging me to watch fast and furious 2 for the 100th time
 
Drlexus said:
Indian wells a highligjt part of the year for me along with majors. I find it sad when indian wells is over and cant get into miami at all.

Can anyone make a case for miami being as big as indian wells? I just dont see it other than being at same time as miami sound festival and encouraging me to watch fast and furious 2 for the 100th time
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It's the exact same tournament, just a week later and higher humidity.

The last warmup tournament before a whole bunch more warmup tournaments.
 
Me too!

I have also been brainwashed into thinking that some dull and rich retirement town in the middle of the desert is host to the 5th slam because some fabulously wealthy software magnate has paid his PR to say so.
 
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Miami is such a fun tourney to go to. On TV, it looks dark. I think they need to improve the stadium court lighting; it looks bad on TV. With so many spectators from so many different countries, each match has a davis cup like atmosphere. Every Spanish speaking country has fan represention. Also, there are plenty of people representing all the former Soviet Block countries. Of Course, the US fans are in full force. It's really such a diverse group of fans.

Add in that it's a 2 week masters with both ATP & WTA action.... and it is understandable why it was the always a player favorite and a fan favorite. IW has taken over because of all the money pumped in from Ellison , though.
 
The players look forward to Miami than Indian Wells. South Beach compared to the desert is no comparison from an entertainment standpoint. The players will want Miami, or some event in South Florida much more than Indian Wells.
 
It's not as big as IW but personally I think it has a good atmosphere and looks like a fun tournament to attend. Sure it's not top of the pile but there are worse masters events on the calendar
 
-Miami gives bad vibes because the crowds are usually pretty raucous and disrespectful even to popular players.

-It also looks not as interesting because the conditions are so slow that it's not clay but it doesn't feel like a hardcourt match either.

-Players look like they're sweating jugs of sweat because of how bad the humidity is there compared to Indian Wells.

-Nole's won so many times here and he's not as loved as Rafa or Rog so casual fans don't look forward to it as much.
 
There is nothing wrong with it. Not the best. not the worst. Miami is a cool town.
2014 final Djokovic vs Nadal might seriously have been one of the greatest displays of hard court tactical tennis emanating from Djokovic I might have ever seen.
It was a pure clinic.
Nadal has never won it and Fed has not won it since 2006 so it gets a bad rap.
 
timnz said:
Miami in the late 1980s was called the 5th slam and was a best of five set tournament in all rounds. I don't know what happened to make it lose status. Or has it? Is it possibly that Indian Wells, with its Larry Ellison investment has just gone ahead of it
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That is right. I totally forgot about that.
 
swordtennis said:
There is nothing wrong with it. Not the best. not the worst. Miami is a cool town.
2014 final Djokovic vs Nadal might seriously have been one of the greatest displays of hard court tactical tennis emanating from Djokovic I might have ever seen.
It was a pure clinic.
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Erm Nadal was completely rubbish in that one. Djovack just had to put the ball in play.
 
For some reason i've never got into Indian Wells, whereas i've always considered Miami the more prestigious of the two.
I think Miami's night matches bring out more atmosphere, although the IW stadium definitely trumps that of Miami's.
 
Drlexus said:
Indian wells a highligjt part of the year for me along with majors. I find it sad when indian wells is over and cant get into miami at all.

Can anyone make a case for miami being as big as indian wells? I just dont see it other than being at same time as miami sound festival and encouraging me to watch fast and furious 2 for the 100th time
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Gary I agree with you 100%, IW by far a bigger tournie and more interesting to follow for some reason. Miami is kinda meh especially as it's smack bang after IW. Maybe if they hadn't been staged so close together, say perhaps a month apart or later in year, would get more interest for Miami?
 
Nadalgaenger said:
Personally I think Miami is a cool tournament. No, it's not IW, but is Madrid the same tournament as Monte Carlo or Rome?

I wish they would scrap Paris indoors and replace it with a grass masters. Halle would be a good choice. Germany deserves a decent tournament.
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Id make the grass court season longer and make halle and queens ayed back to back and be masters 1000. America shouldnt have three masters 1000 so id downgrade miami and cincinatti.

Funny thing is had things been like how i want them federer would be ahead on masters 1000 as well....took me longer than most to recognise who goat was but its best to take ones time .......

Id love to know who woukd have won more out of nadal and djokovic if two masters 1000 on grass.

Should be a petition more grass court tennis.
 
I enjoy both, they should space them out better. The tour is devoid of action for so long after the Australian open. Why not slot one of them in there?
 
I hate the "slowness" of both tournaments. Indian Wells with its gritty courts has got to be the slowest surface on tour. Miami is equally slow because of the ridiculous humidity (and sometimes wind). They might as well just turn it into clay. I think Madrid actually might be faster.
 
Drlexus said:
Id make the grass court season longer and make halle and queens ayed back to back and be masters 1000. America shouldnt have three masters 1000 so id downgrade miami and cincinatti.

Funny thing is had things been like how i want them federer would be ahead on masters 1000 as well....took me longer than most to recognise who goat was but its best to take ones time .......

Id love to know who woukd have won more out of nadal and djokovic if two masters 1000 on grass.

Should be a petition more grass court tennis.
Click to expand...
Why does Asia only have one Masters 1000? Why not make Tokyo a Masters 1000? Also, Latin America should have a Masters 1000.

The ATP needs to be smarter about marketing the game to a global audience. Asia is a huge fan base that is neglected.
As for the US having 3 Masters, I would say that it is historically justified. Also, let's not forget that the US is a huge tennis market that only recently has seen its product diminish. All three are very good events in my opinion with rich tradition. I'd like to go to both Miami and Cincy at some point.
 
Honestly I don't like Miami since they slowed it down even more and removed the bo5 final. It's my least favourite masters along with shanghai and Madrid (clay, the indoor was great). I just wish we could get back to the pre-2006 masters layout...
 
Nadalgaenger said:
Why does Asia only have one Masters 1000? Why not make Tokyo a Masters 1000? Also, Latin America should have a Masters 1000.

The ATP needs to be smarter about marketing the game to a global audience. Asia is a huge fan base that is neglected.
As for the US having 3 Masters, I would say that it is historically justified. Also, let's not forget that the US is a huge tennis market that only recently has seen its product diminish. All three are very good events in my opinion with rich tradition. I'd like to go to both Miami and Cincy at some point.
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Agree with most of that exept miami and cincinatti. Neither tournament has progressed and at masters 1000 level i think progression is vital. Just compare to indian wells.

Got to have a masters 1000 on grass. Preferably two
 
captainbryce said:
I hate the "slowness" of both tournaments. Indian Wells with its gritty courts has got to be the slowest surface on tour. Miami is equally slow because of the ridiculous humidity (and sometimes wind). They might as well just turn it into clay. I think Madrid actually might be faster.
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Indian Wells organizers seem committed to making Indian Wells slower that the Masters 1000 clay events in Monte Carlo and Rome. It already is about the same speed as Monte Carlo (both around 24 on the surface speed index) - do you think they will achieve making it slower than Monte Carlo in 2018?
 
Nadalgaenger said:
Why does Asia only have one Masters 1000? Why not make Tokyo a Masters 1000? Also, Latin America should have a Masters 1000.

The ATP needs to be smarter about marketing the game to a global audience. Asia is a huge fan base that is neglected.
As for the US having 3 Masters, I would say that it is historically justified. Also, let's not forget that the US is a huge tennis market that only recently has seen its product diminish. All three are very good events in my opinion with rich tradition. I'd like to go to both Miami and Cincy at some point.
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The numbers in the stadium for the Shanghai Masters 1000 make me wonder if this is true.
 
timnz said:
Indian Wells organizers seem committed to making Indian Wells slower that the Masters 1000 clay events in Monte Carlo and Rome. It already is about the same speed as Monte Carlo (both around 24 on the surface speed index) - do you think they will achieve making it slower than Monte Carlo in 2018?
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Has nothing to do with the "organizers" trying to slow it down. IW has alway been this way since they built the IWTG. As I said before - IW has a special PlexiPave topcoat made just for IW because of the desert heat and extra dry conditions and how fast the ball moves through the air. It's been the same every year and yes I play on the courts a lot. Now I'm not one who's been a fan of the slowing down of the surfaces overall in the past. I like fast courts - but IW is kind of a unique situation and it seems to work pretty well overall rewarding attacking style as well as baseline defense etc.
 
DNShade said:
Has nothing to do with the "organizers" trying to slow it down. IW has alway been this way since they built the IWTG. As I said before - IW has a special PlexiPave topcoat made just for IW because of the desert heat and extra dry conditions and how fast the ball moves through the air. It's been the same every year and yes I play on the courts a lot. Now I'm not one who's been a fan of the slowing down of the surfaces overall in the past. I like fast courts - but IW is kind of a unique situation and it seems to work pretty well overall rewarding attacking style as well as baseline defense etc.
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Why don't they just use the regular PlexiCushion surface they have Australia? Even though the Australian Open is hardly a model for "fast courts", it still appears to be faster than Indian Wells.
 
captainbryce said:
Why don't they just use the regular PlexiCushion surface they have Australia? Even though the Australian Open is hardly a model for "fast courts", it still appears to be faster than Indian Wells.
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It's a special topcoat that is extra gritty - called PPIW or something like that. It's made to slow down the ball because of the extra low humidity at IW combined with the heat causes the ball to really move through the air crazy fast. It's like playing at altitude so they needed to do something. So this was an intentional choice made to not have it turn into just a serve-fest etc. And I don't think anyone is complaining about aggressive play not being rewarded there especially after what we have seen this week from Fed/Nick etc.
 
Drlexus said:
Id make the grass court season longer and make halle and queens ayed back to back and be masters 1000. America shouldnt have three masters 1000 so id downgrade miami and cincinatti.

Funny thing is had things been like how i want them federer would be ahead on masters 1000 as well....took me longer than most to recognise who goat was but its best to take ones time .......

Id love to know who woukd have won more out of nadal and djokovic if two masters 1000 on grass.

Should be a petition more grass court tennis.
Click to expand...

I think Fed would likely have 7+ at both if that was the case.
 
At the moment, it's actually neither very hot nor humid here for Miami standards at this time of the year. There have been quite a few evenings < 20 C in the last couple of days.
 
Nadalgaenger said:
Personally I think Miami is a cool tournament. No, it's not IW, but is Madrid the same tournament as Monte Carlo or Rome?

I wish they would scrap Paris indoors and replace it with a grass masters. Halle would be a good choice. Germany deserves a decent tournament.
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Scrap Miami or Cincy, preferably the former. Keep Paris - the only indoor Masters. Insert a grass court Masters in place of Miami or Cincy, possibly to be held in Germany. (but move up the clay court season by a week at least to fit the grass masters as part of the brief grass season). Or, possibly a combination of Germany, trading off with a southern venue where grass is traditional, such as India or South Africa, or at least playing the grass masters in one of those countries in one of the three non-Olympic years, when the calendar is a little less tight. Another possibility is to play the ATP Finals in Germany permanently, and look to the south for the grass court Masters,. Or, if too far a stretch in terms of travel, Grass in Germany and the ATP Finals in a permanent home in middle europe, from where so many great players are emerging. The Czech Republic has a wonderful, powerful tennis tradition, Serbia and Croatia are strong, and look to remain so, The Big Bear is no slouch. Queen's would deserve consideration for the 1000, but that would absolutely mean GB gives up the ATP Finals.
 
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amorys90 said:
Miami should switch to green clay. Would be awesome to have a top tier green clay tourney!
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Har Tru ™, commonly called green clay (although it is bluish) is a superb playing surface, and would be a welcome break from the over use of hard courts. It is not much like Clay at all, IMO and would be a different surface. But, to introduce a Har Tru Masters, you would have to speed up a couple of the current cement-composite hard court Masters. A return to a carpet masters would be nice, also. But I think the best improvement is a grass masters, while creating or converting a hard court 500 into a Har-Tru event (possibly Mexico Open, or China Open), and possibly revert to carpet for the ATP finals.
 
Miami Open now will actually be in the city of Miami, not Key Bicayne which is like a 45 minute drive away from Miami proper going 75 mph.
 
Nadalgaenger said:
Why does Asia only have one Masters 1000? Why not make Tokyo a Masters 1000? Also, Latin America should have a Masters 1000.

The ATP needs to be smarter about marketing the game to a global audience. Asia is a huge fan base that is neglected.
As for the US having 3 Masters, I would say that it is historically justified. Also, let's not forget that the US is a huge tennis market that only recently has seen its product diminish. All three are very good events in my opinion with rich tradition. I'd like to go to both Miami and Cincy at some point.
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Completely agree, but the calendar is tight, especially in Olympic years and more so now that Federer and his Corporation have muscled the Laver Cup into the lineup, which Fed trusts will be a perpetual money-maker for him long after he retires. Just hard to know how to fit in these meritorious ideas - grass masters somewhere, Har Tru ™, carpet, a significant India or South Africa tournament, South America, middle/eastern europe, Japan. The schedule is pretty gruelling already, although converting a few of these hard court tourneys to grass, Har Tru ™, indoor carpet, would ease the wear and tear.

Besides reflecting the booming internationalization of tennis, balancing the surface mix, as well as the geographic, would encourage greater variety in playing strategies and styles. All good.
 
Miami is low class fans and even the new facility can't help that.
IW is good fans, amazing facilities, and the reason players love it.
 
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