Purplemonster
Hall of Fame
Federer has a great serve. Only problem is it doesn’t react well under pressure.
Infamous Sampras hater Rusedski: Federers's serve is in the category as Sampras
- Thread starter Heuristic
- Start date
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
I agree but this rivalry would be closer than Sampras/Agassi and indoor would be quite a tussle. Djokovic may edge Pete because he is so versatile, but it would be close.
The Green Mile
Bionic Poster
Nobody has voted for the third option, hooray.
And Federer would destroy Pete.
Gotta throw that one in to see how strong the delusion is in here
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
Obviously your post is biased, but I actually think their matches would be incredibly close. Fed is a hard matchup for Pete because of his amazing reflex returns, which if executed consistently could get in Pete's head and make his serve and volley combo less effective. Having said that, it may not always go down to the wire, as Pete's serving isn't like Roddick's.
SamprasisGOAT
Hall of Fame
Your a tennis genius.
It's not just Roddick. Federer has an overwhelming record against all the big servers. Grandpa Federer is 11-3 against Raonic, 13-1 against Karlovic, 7-2 against Isner, 10-2 against Safin, and the list goes on
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
Pete's 1-2 is wayyyyyy more effective than any of those guys you mentioned. And his serving style is different too.
i thought you said young pete was best.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
1-2, his serve and follow-up (either big forehand or volley) were way more effective than Roddick and the rest of the mugs you mentioned, who aside from being mugs, were mostly big servers without much to back it up (Safin did when he brought his brains to the match)
Well yeah, unlike those guys he misses much more first serves, which dooms disaster against Federer. He can't rely on his second serve to get him out of trouble every single time.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
Unlike those guys he has power and precision, superior disguise and spin despite using a tiny racket without poly
Pete's second serve wasn't too bad.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
Roddick had a great serve, but he was no Sampras.
Fred's not gonna get away with chipping backhand returns all day long against Pete. It's gonna be a tough match either way.
It depends where. There is no way he beats Fred at the AU if he can't get passed Agassi. On grass, Federer has prodigious talent to take the ball early, while Sampras hold-game is very good. Still more options for Fred so he's the favorite there too. US Open is where Sampie stands his best chance IMO. And I dare say it better be young Sampras (1990-1995).
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
Fed has prodigious talent to take the ball early pretty much anywhere, but he isn't gonna be taking a spin heavy groundstroke early, but rather a cleanly struck volley within a foot or two of the baseline. Doing that well over the course of a match is a tough order even for Fred. Agreed about the US Open. I think Pete would be prohibitive favorite indoors.
I give Fred the Aussie and French, mostly since Pete was just "above average" most days on clay. Down under Pete's endurance would be a major factor, and if we're going by the 90s and early to mid 2000s, it would be the surface that would best fit Fred's moderately aggressive baseline game.
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
I have a date file for aces - DFs over games. In other words, I would say that at least to some extent DFs cancel aces, so that's what I'm going by. On that Fed is close to the top for his height and below. He's around .46, meaning that a little less than 1 out of 2 games he gets a net free point. F. Lopez is a hair higher. Lopez is even higher on grass. On grass Sampras and Fed are so close, it's not worth mentioning the difference. But Sampras is higher on AS, possibly because he played less clay. No one their height is as good as Sampras and Fed except for Lopez. Lopez might get a boost from mostly playing on earlier rounds and not facing really tough opponents.
Roddick easily leads all other players at his height on grass, at least since 1991. Arthurs is even higher, but he's about an inch taller.
Then taller: Kyrgios and Ivanisevic are tied. Then Raonic, who is again taller. No one beat Raonic at that height.
Karlovic and Isner at the best, with Opelka probably about to joint that elite group. So there is a huge link between the best serve and height.
Roddick easily leads all other players at his height on grass, at least since 1991. Arthurs is even higher, but he's about an inch taller.
Then taller: Kyrgios and Ivanisevic are tied. Then Raonic, who is again taller. No one beat Raonic at that height.
Karlovic and Isner at the best, with Opelka probably about to joint that elite group. So there is a huge link between the best serve and height.
I think it's pretty clear at this point that the magic factor with Fed gets an extra boost on grass, as if he's completely in-tune with the conditions. His timing is much better, his serving his better, his retrieving is better (which is insane since it's a more irregular bounce). At the US Open he missfired a lot more, and I believe Sampras has his best chance of beating him there. Del Potro could beat Federer with a forehand alone at the US Open.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
The grass Fred played on had a much more regular bounce than what PETE dominated. If they played on the faster grass of the 90s much of what we saw from Fred in his run wouldn't be possible and Pete would run away with the match 6-7 out of 10. I'd split it dead even if it's the grass from Fed's run in the mid 2000s.
You said young Sampras. Young Sampras played much more impressive at the US Open than Wimbledon. You just don't want to play Federer on grass, I'm telling you! Every single stat of his is better on grass than HC. The difference between young Sampras on grass and HC is not that great, but it is great for Peak Federer even though he's a beast on both.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
Lol I definitely don't want to play Peak Fed on grass, I don't even want to play peak Sureshs on grass, but PETE is another beast altogether.
TheFifthSet
Legend
For serve as a stand-alone shot, historically:
Karlovic
Isner
Ivansievic
Raonic
Arthurs
Becker
Krajicek
Stich
Tanner
Gonzales
Muller
Anderson
Querrey
Ljubicic
Kyrgios
Roddick
Scud
Opelka
Groth
Tilden
Kramer
Johansson
Rusedski
McEnroe
Vines
Guccione
26 off the top of my head, think there’s a few more that I haven’t thought of.
Fed’s is better than lots of big servers though, like Cilic (too erratic, 56.1% career first serves landed) JMDP (big guy with a pedestrian serve for his height actually), Soderling/Tsonga unless they’re redlining etc because what he lacks in pace he makes up for in just about everything else. I’d say his serve is a borderline ATG one.
Federer has a better serve than Rosqoue Tanner's erratic power serve with very little precision.
You forgot Safin
TheFifthSet
Legend
When he’s getting it in, sure...but his 55.3 fs% makes it tough to give him the edge, especially since his ace rate isn’t much higher.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
You might want to learn how to spell "you're" correctly before calling out anyone else. I'll assume English is not your first language.
droliver
Professional
On anything other then a great serving day, Nadal would pose a lot og problems for Sampras outside grass, and even there he'd be at least competitive on modern Wimbledon grass courts because of the number of balls in play. There's nothing Sampras did much better then Federer that can hurt Nadal, and there's a lot he did significantly worse. A match with Nadal I think ends with Sampras pinned in the ad court spraying backhand errors and chasing shots to the deuce court
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
As with watching old footage, you have to factor into old statistics that the conditions massively benefited servers to an extent that serve stats from the 90s, for example, need to be adjusted to make fair like-for-like comparisons with modern day conditions.
For almost all of Federer's career the courts and balls have been changing in-general to dampen his serving statistics. Sampras didn't have that handicap, especially when you consider how mediocre his career was on clay which meant he played an even far lower proportion of his total matches on clay than Federer, Isner, Raonic etc. Sampras played only 14% of his career matches on clay. Federer not only had to contend with overwhelmingly slower hard courts but also played 19.6% of his career matches on clay.
Adjust for surface, or court speeds (if a fair method was possible), and Federer's serve stats look every bit as good as Sampras's.
Born_to_slice
Legend
Technology plays a part but best returners who's stats are not heavily skewed by clay are in this era.
roger presley
Hall of Fame
Agree.
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Fixed
Roddick won 80% of his first serves in 2003 on HC, with 15% ace rate, 81% first serves in 2004, with 18% ace rate, and in 2005, 83% first serves won, and 18% ace rate.
Roger Federer's serve stats, in his prime, arenowhere near those stats. Federer is consistently at 78,77, 76, first serves won, and ace rate around 9-11%.. So he wins less points off his first serves despite being a 20th time grand slam champion vs 1, and aces less.
OldschoolKIaus
Hall of Fame
Greg, keep off the crack.
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
Good point. Personally I would take Federer’s everyday over Sampras’.
All this talk about Sampras’ second serve is misleading. So what, he used his first serve as a second serve every now and again. He obvious couldn’t do it the whole time and it has become a highlight reel memory.
And Roddick's??? Despite dominating the serve stats completely over Fed?
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
Yes I would. Again the serve stats don’t convey the clay bias Federer has relative to Roddick, nor the quality of the opponents as Roddick wasn’t a regular feature at the business end of tournaments anywhere near to the same degree Federer has been.
You are in denial. I was giving hard court stats for when Fed was 1 and Roddick was 2. But nothing will convince hopeless fanboys like you
MarTennis
Semi-Pro
By his individual approach as well as by the numbers, Roger Federer is the best server in tennis history. Pete Sampras has the best 1st serve ever. Probably the best 2nd serve on grass. There is a difference in serve and service game.
No he doesn't. Even in his own era, Ivanesivic's first serve was better to name just one
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
I am not in denial thank you, I am just offering my opinion on your thread OP. At no point did you state that you would only acknowledge statistics as valid opinions.
Even on that stats you bring above, I think Feds serve has improved considerably since Roddick was world No 2.
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
This servebot talk is the work of those who would like to make tennis like badminton, where the serve is just a point-starter and not a killer weapon. Anyway, @ topic, it's utterly laughable to compare Fed's serve with Sampras. Like seriously, Rusedki, get over it now. He and Fed hater Pat Cash must drink the same Kool Aid.
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
He can't go boom boom down the middle like Boom Boom Becker or Sampras. That's the extra gear he lacks. And before any apologists attack me for this, I am not saying Fed can't serve big down the middle. He just can't serve as big as Sampras. On the fast USOs of back in the day, that down the tee big first serve of Sampras was pretty much impossible to return.
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
Well, Sampras wouldn't be wasting two match points on serve at Wimbledon or pretty much anywhere other than clay, that's for sure. You can take Fed' serve everyday over it...and the ensuing heartbreaks as well.
And still nowhere close to Roddicks. But maybe you think Roddick is a better tennis player overall and that's why he won 83% off his first serves.
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
I don't know what you're on about, young Sampras won three back to back Wimbledons, beating Courier, Goran and Becker. You can't argue getting to beat Roddick twice and Nadal in his first grass final is harder than that.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
Pretty sure Fred would take Pete's serve over his any day o' the week, and thrice on Sunday 
Nadal in 07 final is. Roddick in the first final is miles better than Goran. Federer's merits on grass are better.
Pretty sure Fred would take Pete's serve over his any day o' the week, and thrice on Sunday
He said he would take Roddick's serve over his too, but I'm still arguing with dumbells in here who had the better serve.
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
That’s a cheap shot. Sampras was serving for glory on the seniors tour at 37.
Similar threads
- Poll