Infraspinatus strain?

chess9

Hall of Fame
I'm having some slight pain in the right shoulder, particularly during backhands. It seems to be in the area where the teres minor and infraspinatus join the bone. I'm assuming that given my age I have a sprain or a small tear. Sleeping last night I noticed a few twinges, but nothing much. I also notice my pullups today were a little painful in the right shoulder.

Has anyone had this problem? What have you done for it?

-Robert
 

Ano

Hall of Fame
Whenever I got minor injury, I rested for a few days, iced the injured area a few times a day for 3 days and took anti inflamatory (aspirin works best for me).

Get well soon!
 

chess9

Hall of Fame
Whenever I got minor injury, I rested for a few days, iced the injured area a few times a day for 3 days and took anti inflamatory (aspirin works best for me).

Get well soon!

I'm not playing again until Sunday. I'll ice today. That's a good idea. I may have some ibuprofen around here somewhere. :) Thanks!

-Robert
 

OrangeOne

Legend
I'm having some slight pain in the right shoulder, particularly during backhands. It seems to be in the area where the teres minor and infraspinatus join the bone. I'm assuming that given my age I have a sprain or a small tear. Sleeping last night I noticed a few twinges, but nothing much. I also notice my pullups today were a little painful in the right shoulder.

Has anyone had this problem? What have you done for it?

-Robert

Gone to the physio! C'mon Robert - you're enough of a fitness nut & health nut to have a good relationship with a sports physio surely?

If you think you've torn something, whip off to the physio. My physio is a good friend, and yet he won't even diagnose me on a phone call, let alone on a message board. If it's a small deal, one session will see diagnosis, treatment, recommendations for future activity AND exercises assigned too. You probably won't even have to go back, or maybe for one follow-up in a few weeks....

Most people on here won't have even heard of the Infraspinatus, I only remember the name from my PT days, and even then, PTs aren't trained to diagnose anything.

I do know a great inner-back stretch, but I wouldn't dare so much as recommend it for fear of it making your back worse....
 

TonyB

Hall of Fame
I'm having some slight pain in the right shoulder, particularly during backhands. It seems to be in the area where the teres minor and infraspinatus join the bone.


Hey, that's *MY* pain!!! Seriously, check out my "Anyone recover from a torn rotator cuff" thread.

Here's a tip: STOP ALL TENNIS PLAYING BEFORE YOU *REALLY* HURT YOUR ARM! Please do not play on Sunday.

I felt the *EXACT* same "minor twinges" for a few days after playing, and then I decided to play tennis again, while I still had some twinges of pain. Poof. That was all she wrote. I literally couldn't lift my arm the next day, even though I didn't notice too much pain while playing.

Let it rest, do not exercise it at all. Do not stretch it at all. Let it completely rest until you feel no more pain. Please trust me on this one. If you want more details of my injury and recovery, email me at snurple(at)hotmail(dot)com.
 

chess9

Hall of Fame
Gone to the physio! C'mon Robert - you're enough of a fitness nut & health nut to have a good relationship with a sports physio surely?

If you think you've torn something, whip off to the physio. My physio is a good friend, and yet he won't even diagnose me on a phone call, let alone on a message board. If it's a small deal, one session will see diagnosis, treatment, recommendations for future activity AND exercises assigned too. You probably won't even have to go back, or maybe for one follow-up in a few weeks....

Most people on here won't have even heard of the Infraspinatus, I only remember the name from my PT days, and even then, PTs aren't trained to diagnose anything.

I do know a great inner-back stretch, but I wouldn't dare so much as recommend it for fear of it making your back worse....

I leave for the States in three days, so I'm going to see my chiropractor if it's still sore. Yeah, you are right....I am actually good friends with one of the top sports orthopods, but I have more chance of seeing Bush next week than seeing him inside 6 weeks, unless he calls me to play golf.

Oh, btw, I've been icing it per Ano's suggestion. I think it's helping too! Imagine that...advice that works. :)

-Robert
 

chess9

Hall of Fame
Hey, that's *MY* pain!!! Seriously, check out my "Anyone recover from a torn rotator cuff" thread.

Here's a tip: STOP ALL TENNIS PLAYING BEFORE YOU *REALLY* HURT YOUR ARM! Please do not play on Sunday.

I felt the *EXACT* same "minor twinges" for a few days after playing, and then I decided to play tennis again, while I still had some twinges of pain. Poof. That was all she wrote. I literally couldn't lift my arm the next day, even though I didn't notice too much pain while playing.

Let it rest, do not exercise it at all. Do not stretch it at all. Let it completely rest until you feel no more pain. Please trust me on this one. If you want more details of my injury and recovery, email me at snurple(at)hotmail(dot)com.

Sunday is a team match, and I'm committed, BUT, it's supposed to rain, so the match may not come off. It really isn't very bad at all, but I keep a close watch on all my aches and pains. I'm hoping the icing helps.

I'll report back next week. I'm leaving for the States shortly, so I won't play for a week anyway.

-Robert
 

TonyB

Hall of Fame
It really isn't very bad at all, but I keep a close watch on all my aches and pains. I'm hoping the icing helps.

It's your choice, of course, and I wish you the best. But don't be stubborn about it, believe me. I've played through pain and exercised with torn muscles before. But I think it's not smart, especially at "our" age.

As I said before, I felt mine was "just a twinge" and it "wasn't very bad at all" when I decided to go ahead play tennis that fateful night. And even during play, I didn't really notice it too much, with just a HINT of a twinge here and there.

But the next day? Oh my! I actually could not lift my arm above my waist without tremendous sharp pain in the very same location that you're describing. Also, I could not put any pressure on my left shoulder with my right hand without feeling some very deep pain in the tricep/bone area.

As I said, it's your decision. But don't be stubborn about it, because even though it may seem like it's not "very bad", it doesn't take much to BECOME very bad, very quickly.

I don't mean to be overly-dramatic about it, but I just know what happened to me when I felt the exact same pain. It was so slight that it didn't even affect my stroke at all. But after playing that one last time, it has now been over 3 weeks that I have been recovering and although my shoulder FEELS 100%, I don't trust it yet and will continue to do some strength training and light racquet-swinging for the next week or so until I feel ready to play again.

The way I figure it, if I have to wait an additional week or two right now before I'm able to play without fear of injury, that's a VERY small price to pay to prevent MONTHS of rehab and possible loss of ability to play competitive tennis forever if that "slight twinge" develops into a full tear.

Ice is nice, but it really doesn't FIX the problem, it only helps numb the area and may speed healing slightly. Same goes for Ibuprofen - it just masks the pain, but doesn't heal the injury. Don't let it fool you into thinking that it's just a minor ache due to muscle over-use. That's precisely what I thought when my pain was just a twinge. But if it's the same pain that I had, then it's potentially more serious than that and could get significantly worse if you push yourself.

Good luck.
 
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heycal

Hall of Fame
Life is short, Robert. Unless your shoulder is killing you, in which case it will be obvious to you that you shouldn't play, I say go for it.
 

TonyB

Hall of Fame
Heycal, that's bad advice. Seriously bad. I'm not sure what the purpose of that was.

A minor tear can turn into a full tear in a matter of seconds. And if you're feeling pain to begin with, it's telling you that there's a WEAKNESS in that area that may turn into something more significant if it's not properly taken care of.

Telling someone to "go for it" when they've got a developing injury is just plain dumb.
 

chess9

Hall of Fame
Actually, the icing suggested by ANO is working. My shoulder is much much better today. Furthermore, it appears that rain is likely for tomorrow so I will get more rest. I probably won't play for a week, sorry to say. :(

-Robert
 

heycal

Hall of Fame
Heycal, that's bad advice. Seriously bad. I'm not sure what the purpose of that was.

A minor tear can turn into a full tear in a matter of seconds. And if you're feeling pain to begin with, it's telling you that there's a WEAKNESS in that area that may turn into something more significant if it's not properly taken care of.

Telling someone to "go for it" when they've got a developing injury is just plain dumb.

If it were some kid asking for advice, I might respond differently, but Robert is an experienced ironman athlete well-acquainted with aches and pains. My advice to him remains to play if he feels up to it. Personally speaking, I take time off or go to the doctor every time I feel an ache or I'd be spending my life in the doctor's office instead of playing tennis. I believe we can, and possibly even should, work through certain injuries. Is there a risk of further injury? Sure. But there's a chance of no problems also, so unless those suspectible to aches and pains want to spend their life on the sidelines, sometimes it's worth the risk of playing through minor ailments.

Did you read that article I was posted from the New York Times on this topic in another thread?

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=112699

Some interesting theories in there. Definitely worth reading even if you disagree with it.
 
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chess9

Hall of Fame
Well, I haven't played tennis for a week, and I just lifted this morning. It was only a light workout, but the shoulder is fine I think. I was benching 110 lbs x 20 pretty easily. Did 15 chins without pain. So the shoulder seems to have benefitted from ICE and REST. :) The REST part is very hard.... :)

Your mileage may vary with these kinds of injuries. As all these shoulder threads point out, everyone is unique, like everyone else. (Margaret Meade quote) :)


-Robert
 

oldhacker

Semi-Pro
If you have damaged your infrspinatus I think you should be very careful and get it checked out. My tale of woe is:

Had an innocous slip playing tennis months ago and felt a bit of a jar in the shoulder of the hand I used to break the fall. Nothing too bad and I carried on the playing the match without a problem. Lots of pain the next day. Iced and rested it for a couple of week and it seemed OK so started playing again and did so without problems (other than the occassion aching type pain under my arm when resting but not when playing). Could do 100 push ups without any pain. Then just before Xmas I was knocking up, went to hit an overhead and ouch! Went to doctor and PT and turns out that in original fall I must have damaged the infraspinatus tendon and the muscle has wasted away over the months leaving me with a useless muscle and a mislaigned shoulder. It will now take me months to rebuild the infraspinatus muscle and get the scapula back in position and some time longer before I can hope to hit a ball again.

Apparently the infraspinatus is infamous for being damaged but not revealing any obvious pain for some time.

Well, I haven't played tennis for a week, and I just lifted this morning. It was only a light workout, but the shoulder is fine I think. I was benching 110 lbs x 20 pretty easily. Did 15 chins without pain. So the shoulder seems to have benefitted from ICE and REST. :) The REST part is very hard.... :)

Your mileage may vary with these kinds of injuries. As all these shoulder threads point out, everyone is unique, like everyone else. (Margaret Meade quote) :)


-Robert
 

chess9

Hall of Fame
If you have damaged your infrspinatus I think you should be very careful and get it checked out. My tale of woe is:

Had an innocous slip playing tennis months ago and felt a bit of a jar in the shoulder of the hand I used to break the fall. Nothing too bad and I carried on the playing the match without a problem. Lots of pain the next day. Iced and rested it for a couple of week and it seemed OK so started playing again and did so without problems (other than the occassion aching type pain under my arm when resting but not when playing). Could do 100 push ups without any pain. Then just before Xmas I was knocking up, went to hit an overhead and ouch! Went to doctor and PT and turns out that in original fall I must have damaged the infraspinatus tendon and the muscle has wasted away over the months leaving me with a useless muscle and a mislaigned shoulder. It will now take me months to rebuild the infraspinatus muscle and get the scapula back in position and some time longer before I can hope to hit a ball again.

Apparently the infraspinatus is infamous for being damaged but not revealing any obvious pain for some time.

I wonder what they would do if I went to the VA center and sought help? It doesn't bother me at all now. I can internally and externally rotate it through the full range of motion. Is there some movement I should try to find out, or do I need an MRI to discover that I will be hitting my topspin backhand at 5 mph on or after March 1? :)

Your story sounds scary. I swear, my body is such a traitor too....Just no loyalty to the cause....:)

Good luck with that. Let us know if you come back from the precipice.

-Robert
 

oldhacker

Semi-Pro
Hi chess9 - yup I could do everything (including my ridulous never to be repaeated if I recover over-rotation of the shoulder on serving and forehands) too without pain a few weeks after my initial injury but unbeknown to me my infraspinatus was merrily wasting away without complaining and my scapula was become unstable in the process. Even now, with a hollow in my back instead of an infraspinatus and after just a couple of weeks of no tennis and PT I could go out and play pain free if I took a good dose of anti-inflammatories the night before. I am no expert but I would guess a good sports PT could make a reasonable assessment without an MRI. If yours was as painful as you say it was I would be surprised if the damage had fully healed already as apparently the infraspinatus tendons are slow healers.

Good luck !

I wonder what they would do if I went to the VA center and sought help? It doesn't bother me at all now. I can internally and externally rotate it through the full range of motion. Is there some movement I should try to find out, or do I need an MRI to discover that I will be hitting my topspin backhand at 5 mph on or after March 1? :)

Your story sounds scary. I swear, my body is such a traitor too....Just no loyalty to the cause....:)

Good luck with that. Let us know if you come back from the precipice.

-Robert
 

TonyB

Hall of Fame
It's been over 4 weeks that I've been resting/rehabilitating my shoulder. I haven't played tennis yet, but I've swung my racquet at "full speed" without actually hitting any balls. My shoulder seems fine, but I'm not 100% comfortable with it just yet.

I'd be shocked if Chess9 had a similar pain/problem (and from the sounds of it, it's nearly EXACTLY what I experienced) and it was able to heal in only 1 week.

Good luck. And I hope you don't injure it more severely if and when you decide to play. Take it easy.
 

chess9

Hall of Fame
It's been over 4 weeks that I've been resting/rehabilitating my shoulder. I haven't played tennis yet, but I've swung my racquet at "full speed" without actually hitting any balls. My shoulder seems fine, but I'm not 100% comfortable with it just yet.

I'd be shocked if Chess9 had a similar pain/problem (and from the sounds of it, it's nearly EXACTLY what I experienced) and it was able to heal in only 1 week.

Good luck. And I hope you don't injure it more severely if and when you decide to play. Take it easy.

Thanks! We sold our house and we are moving, so I won't be playing tennis for yet another week, probably. I might hit against the wall on Sunday, if I can get out the door. Degrees of injury do make a huge difference, such as strain vs. tear. So, I might have been lucky. I'm not sure why I got it, that's the troubling part. I was doing a lot of chins and dips, so that might have been the cause.

-Robert
 

tricky

Hall of Fame
Do you like to go deep with the dips? Do you chin toward the sternum? If so, then yeah it could be that.

As for exercises, yeah you could immediately do exercises to avoid the problem in the future. Just do external rotation movements, concentrate on low weight and very high reps, (15-30 reps per set), do them slowly, limit ROM toward the top of the movement. If you do that everyday for a week, you should feel fine.
 

chess9

Hall of Fame
Do you like to go deep with the dips? Do you chin toward the sternum? If so, then yeah it could be that.

As for exercises, yeah you could immediately do exercises to avoid the problem in the future. Just do external rotation movements, concentrate on low weight and very high reps, (15-30 reps per set), do them slowly, limit ROM toward the top of the movement. If you do that everyday for a week, you should feel fine.

Somehow I missed this. Good advice and thanks. I seem all better now. I swam twice this week and did sprints in the pool yesterday with no pain. I also did pullups yesterday with no pain during my lifting session. No tennis for the last two weeks because of my move.

Thanks for the input. I've seen those exercises with cables and dumbbells.

-Robert
 

jwbarrientos

Hall of Fame
I'm having some slight pain in the right shoulder, particularly during backhands. It seems to be in the area where the teres minor and infraspinatus join the bone. I'm assuming that given my age I have a sprain or a small tear. Sleeping last night I noticed a few twinges, but nothing much. I also notice my pullups today were a little painful in the right shoulder.

Has anyone had this problem? What have you done for it?

-Robert

Hi Robert, just started with the same issue, doc sent me to 10 sessions recovery with kinesio exercises, any updated in your condition?
 

jwbarrientos

Hall of Fame
Hi chess9 - yup I could do everything (including my ridulous never to be repaeated if I recover over-rotation of the shoulder on serving and forehands) too without pain a few weeks after my initial injury but unbeknown to me my infraspinatus was merrily wasting away without complaining and my scapula was become unstable in the process. Even now, with a hollow in my back instead of an infraspinatus and after just a couple of weeks of no tennis and PT I could go out and play pain free if I took a good dose of anti-inflammatories the night before. I am no expert but I would guess a good sports PT could make a reasonable assessment without an MRI. If yours was as painful as you say it was I would be surprised if the damage had fully healed already as apparently the infraspinatus tendons are slow healers.

Good luck !

Hi Old man, any update on your status? apparently the source of all my problems are Over rotation in my serve and forehands :( so new techniques will help me but before had to heal.
 
Hi Old man, any update on your status? apparently the source of all my problems are Over rotation in my serve and forehands :( so new techniques will help me but before had to heal.

I also hope Robert (chess9) is well. He hasn't been posting much on "health and fitness" recently. But from multiple comments last year and early this year (some on an elbow problem) he apparently recovered from the shoulder problem he posted in 2007.

But jw, I wondered if you have seen this video tip on "Preventing Rotator Cuff Injury" when serving by Jim McLennon of TennisOne.com: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTRvxaBMh8s&feature=related Just by dropping your nonhitting shoulder on contact, you'll have much less impingement on contact, and a mechanically "better" shoulder angle for pronation and power - just like the pros.

Is this what you were referring to to by over rotation on your serve? And what do you mean by over rotation on your forehand, and how are you correcting that?

(The reason I'm asking is that it may help others prevent shoulder issues.)
 
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jwbarrientos

Hall of Fame
Hi charliefedererer,

Thanks for your answer. Nice video, interesting that motion I'd go with that as soon as I got cleared by my doc, in fact I 've been planning to take some time with a pro coach to review my entire serve; I am quite sure that I don't hit with non-hitting shoulder in that angle, so there's a room to improve there.

BTW, about over rotating my forehand I meant I used a close grip (semi-western) and I don't know why frequently I finish my follow thru bellow the shoulder "over rotating" to generate more spin, clearly a bad technique :oops: (but effective in many cases :neutral: ).

Next Friday I got an appointment with a shoulder specialist in order to check diagnosis + present treatment; so far the probably causes the previous doc told me are tennis' bad technique, but he also suggested me that an specilist could run some tests and check some body positions (like the way I drive, the way I sleep, etc...) and the entire structure of body.

Thanks again, I'll keep you posted.
 

jwbarrientos

Hall of Fame
Just to keep you posted, after visiting the specialist the diagnosis was confirm "muscle contracture + teres minor tendinitis", so keep visiting terapist + Kinesio type in between + some pills if it pains, general idea is to heal the teres minor insertion + develop muscles around.

Recovering time projected 3/4 weeks more, later doc suggested me to review my technique with a proper coach.
 
Three times a week is the recommended rate. They don't really take that long to do. And the "workouts" definitely don't leave you exhausted in any way.
 

jwbarrientos

Hall of Fame
Well, well, well after 5 weeks (or so) of not playing ... I got cleared to make my first rally.

I did it for 45 mins and have no issues besides misshitting many balls, have no significant pain, even that will not repeat the rally in next 3/4 days.

In 5/7 days I should be cleared to start serving.

For future references I only did 6 Kinesio sessions, I have 4 ahead, and should start review my techniques with a coach by mid june.
 
Thanks for the update.

It sounds like everything is going well so far.

As tough as it is to have to take time off for an injury, it often leaves the player more motivated to salvage the rest of the season, and really appreciate being back on court again.

So while you missed playing the FO, hope you can get into the draw at Wimbledon!:)
 
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