Injuries and pull outs in the 80s

leodevlin

Professional
I was a child then and it's obviously was long time ago so I concede that my memory is not 100% but I don't remember players pulling out due to injuries from tournaments or quitting in the middle of a match.

Does anyone else have that perception? If so, what is the issue with this generation, there is constantly someone pulling out from a tournament or quitting a match.

Is it because tennis has become more physical , busier tournament schedule or softer generation or all of the above?
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
Softer generation and how are you going to prove that? Players have all the latest medicine for their support.

Boris Becker could win Wimbledon at 17 because he was very strong player for his gen who could serve huge with graphite rackets. He is just 6'3

In current top 10 he would be down in the middle.
 

Kralingen

Bionic Poster
The game is far more physical imo. Everything has changed. The advances have been numerous, with the surfaces, the shoes, the poly strings, etc has made the game so much faster and more demanding than ever before. Go look up a 1980s match and compare it to today, the physical stress placed on the modern player’s body in a single baseline point today is gigantically higher than yesteryear.
 

Purestriker

Legend
I was a child then and it's obviously was long time ago so I concede that my memory is not 100% but I don't remember players pulling out due to injuries from tournaments or quitting in the middle of a match.

Does anyone else have that perception? If so, what is the issue with this generation, there is constantly someone pulling out from a tournament or quitting a match.

Is it because tennis has become more physical , busier tournament schedule or softer generation or all of the above?
Just a suggestion......I would change the title to withdrawals and not pull outs. :-D


Also, the game is completely different than when you were a kid. Those "tough folks" wouldn't look so tough in a four hour 40 shot rally 5th set of today's game. They played with gut on faster courts, serving and volleying with much quicker points. Look at the average time of a match when you were a kid vs. now. Not the same game.
 

leodevlin

Professional
The game is far more physical imo. Everything has changed. The advances have been numerous, with the surfaces, the shoes, the poly strings, etc has made the game so much faster and more demanding than ever before. Go look up a 1980s match and compare it to today, the physical stress placed on the modern player’s body in a single baseline point today is gigantically higher than yesteryear.
I agree with that , though Boris definitely started to make it more physical.
 

leodevlin

Professional
Just a suggestion......I would change the title to withdrawals and not pull outs. :-D


Also, the game is completely different than when you were a kid. Those "tough folks" wouldn't look so tough in a four hour 40 shot rally 5th set of today's game. They played with gut on faster courts, serving and volleying with much quicker points. Look at the average time of a match when you were a kid vs. now. Not the same game.

Sorry Boss can't change the title, if I could i would say "Not going all the way" ;).

Well not everyone was a serve and vollyer about half were baseliners. People had very long rallys on clay, especially because the pace was slower as far as I remember.
 

leodevlin

Professional
Softer generation and how are you going to prove that? Players have all the latest medicine for their support.

Boris Becker could win Wimbledon at 17 because he was very strong player for his gen who could serve huge with graphite rackets. He is just 6'3

In current top 10 he would be down in the middle.
It is fallacious to assume that yesterday's Boris would have the same regiment and technology available to him if he played in today's top 10. IMO he would be still a huge force.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
It is fallacious to assume that yesterday's Boris would have the same regiment and technology available to him if he played in today's top 10. IMO he would be still a huge force.
IMO this is would could should

If Boris does not have the same circumstances, most likely he won't break at 17 and his Wimbledon record of youngest number 1 would not be created.

Do you not find ANY correlation that youngest ever records at all slams was set in 80s gen? If you have even basic interest, check this.

Youngest Wimbledon winner Becker
Youngest RG winner Wilander? maybe Chang
Youngest AO winner Edberg
Youngest USOpen winner Sampras

All happened in a matter of 5 years or so.
If Becker plays today, with different regiment and technology, he would not break the youngest records. Neither will others. Maybe Sampras if lucky. But he was close to 20.
 

Hood_Man

G.O.A.T.
We probably need someone like @Mustard to do some detective work for us to confirm, but I assume matches were generally much faster "back in't day". Nobody on tour is going to be playing completely injury free and it's probably a lot less daunting to consider playing through an injury if you think you'll only be on court for 2 hours.

The idea of straight sets wins taking 2-3 hours seems to have become normalised in the last 15 years or so but even I can remember when such a thing was a rarity.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
We probably need someone like @Mustard to do some detective work for us to confirm, but I assume matches were generally much faster "back in't day". Nobody on tour is going to be playing completely injury free and it's probably a lot less daunting to consider playing through an injury if you think you'll only be on court for 2 hours.

The idea of straight sets wins taking 2-3 hours seems to have become normalised in the last 15 years or so but even I can remember when such a thing was a rarity.
Laver and Rosewall played 100+ matches. That's playing a match every single day for months on.
 

urban

Legend
Nobody pulled out of so many tournaments like Jimmy Connors. Borg had often problems with muscle injuries, and in his later years, reduced his ATP schedule. Becker sat out many events due to muscle problems. Pat Cashs career was cut short by many injuries. Brad Glibert oft looked like Lazarus out of his grave. Goran Pripc looked like he played with an artfical leg.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
The most famous incident I can think of was Edberg retiring with an injury in the 1990 AO final against Lendl. It was played in January, 1990, so it missed the 80's decade by a few weeks.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
The game is far more physical imo. Everything has changed. The advances have been numerous, with the surfaces, the shoes, the poly strings, etc has made the game so much faster and more demanding than ever before. Go look up a 1980s match and compare it to today, the physical stress placed on the modern player’s body in a single baseline point today is gigantically higher than yesteryear.
This. Watch some of those old matches and it’s like watching some rec players by comparison to today’s game. They barely moved.

You can watch some of those finals for hours and barely find points worthy of a highlight reel by today’s standards
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
We probably need someone like @Mustard to do some detective work for us to confirm, but I assume matches were generally much faster "back in't day". Nobody on tour is going to be playing completely injury free and it's probably a lot less daunting to consider playing through an injury if you think you'll only be on court for 2 hours.

The idea of straight sets wins taking 2-3 hours seems to have become normalised in the last 15 years or so but even I can remember when such a thing was a rarity.
I don’t think it’s just the amount of time. They played a slower, less intensive game back then
 

leodevlin

Professional
Nobody pulled out of so many tournaments like Jimmy Connors. Borg had often problems with muscle injuries, and in his later years, reduced his ATP schedule. Becker sat out many events due to muscle problems. Pat Cashs career was cut short by many injuries. Brad Glibert oft looked like Lazarus out of his grave. Goran Pripc looked like he played with an artfical leg.
Do you remember any of them ever quitting mid match ?
 

leodevlin

Professional
We probably need someone like @Mustard to do some detective work for us to confirm, but I assume matches were generally much faster "back in't day". Nobody on tour is going to be playing completely injury free and it's probably a lot less daunting to consider playing through an injury if you think you'll only be on court for 2 hours.

The idea of straight sets wins taking 2-3 hours seems to have become normalised in the last 15 years or so but even I can remember when such a thing was a rarity.
Why would you say that ? There were a lot more bo5 matches and tournaments and some tournaments had only a fifth set tie break, so if anything they matches were longer but definitely less intense .
 
It’s a combination of slower courts all year, laziness with players (as long as I get my appearance check so what really incentive is there? You can make a great living just showing up ) , and just downright mental weakness because these players are no young male adults. They are little reality show pampered women. They’re freaking divas.


Really it’s all on the parents and social media sadly

I don’t know how much the change in the game contributes to this though for the simple fact these kids have access to 5000000 more drugs and medical doctors and nutritionists and trainers than the guys in the old days. These kids have more benefits and opportunities to stay healthy than guys 30-100 years ago. They also get far nicer travel luxuries. So the “conditions of the game” thing is probably an excuse. While yes the game is more physical, they also have far more benefits to offset it
 
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kevin qmto

Hall of Fame
It’s a combination of slower courts all year, laziness with players (as long as I get my appearance check) , and just downright mental weakness because these players are no young male adults. They are little reality show pampered women. They’re freaking divas.


Really it’s all on the parents and social media sadly

I don’t how much the change in the game contributes to this though for the simple fact these kids have access to 5000000 more drugs and medical doctors and nutritionists and trainers than the guys in the old days. These kids have more benefits and opportunities to stay healthy than guys 30-100 years ago. They also get far nicer travel luxuries. So the “conditions of the game” thing is probably an excuse. While yes the game is more physical, they also have far more benefits to offset it
You been talking to too many boomers and they’re rubbing off on you.
 

urban

Legend
From the top of my head: Connors quit in a match with McEnroe at the Years End Masters New York, i think begin 1979. He also retired against Chang at RG after winning the 4th set. Borg quit in a German Open match with a US player, maybe Teltscher, and it was Stockton, to him he retired at USO 1977. Becker retired in an early Wim match with a serious wrist injury, he also had a bad fall in his very fisrt Wim outing.. He later quit against Edberg in a Bercy final, when he was close to become Nr. 1 on the computer. Edberg retired in a final with Lendl at AO.
 
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jackson vile

G.O.A.T.
I was a child then and it's obviously was long time ago so I concede that my memory is not 100% but I don't remember players pulling out due to injuries from tournaments or quitting in the middle of a match.

Does anyone else have that perception? If so, what is the issue with this generation, there is constantly someone pulling out from a tournament or quitting a match.

Is it because tennis has become more physical , busier tournament schedule or softer generation or all of the above?


The level of current athleticism is light years ahead now. As a result the rate of injury will increase with output of athleticism
 

big ted

Legend
It is fallacious to assume that yesterday's Boris would have the same regiment and technology available to him if he played in today's top 10. IMO he would be still a huge force.

for sure.. honestly boris was probly mentally tougher than tsitsipas, rublev, and dimitrov combined and theyre all in the top 10 lol
 

urban

Legend
I doubt that very much. If athleticism is really so high, why can so many players on their end thirties can compete or even dominate so much on the tour. Stone old journeymen like Mannarino or Struff beat much younger guys like a pulp. In Sinners case: he plays a giants game without a giants body, he looks still a bit frail and thin, Alcaraz has a violent wrist and arm movement, he should look for a good schedule. Zverev will remain injury prone, because his legs ar too long and thin for his short upper body, like Krajicek before. Berrettini is a good example for bad body proportions, which lead to injuries.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
I doubt that very much. If athleticism is really so high, why can so many players on their end thirties can compete or even dominate so much on the tour. Stone old journeymen like Mannarino or Struff beat much younger guys like a pulp. In Sinners case: he plays a giants game without a giants body, he looks still a bit frail and thin, Alcaraz has a violent wrist and arm movement, he should look for a good schedule. Zverev will remain injury prone, because his legs ar too long and thin for his short upper body, like Krajicek before. Berrettini is a good example for bad body proportions, which lead to injuries.
You think you can say anything you want right?

Zverev in his entire life is injured 1 time. That was not because he had stress fracture or anything. He collapsed changing direction violently. Injury wise he is the fittest guy since Roger Federer.
 

leodevlin

Professional
So op you know matches were less intense and still arguing here.

What is wrong with you
I am arguing? I am trying to have a discussion , if that rattles you , you may want to check yourself.

Also , yes matches are more intense, but players are also more fit, play with better equipment and have dedicated nutritionists and way more scientific approaches to recovery.
 

leodevlin

Professional
Discussion about what? You said yourself the intensity is high.

Its high so players get injured. Simple.

Read the original post. I am questioning also if there are more tournaments played in combination with the softer new generation.

You also see multiple bath room breaks which I don't remember seeing in the 80s.

So trying to discover if this is more a multi-faceted problem. You believe is not , great, we got your perspective.
 

big ted

Legend
It’s a combination of slower courts all year, laziness with players (as long as I get my appearance check so what really incentive is there? You can make a great living just showing up ) , and just downright mental weakness because these players are no young male adults. They are little reality show pampered women. They’re freaking divas.


Really it’s all on the parents and social media sadly

I don’t how much the change in the game contributes to this though for the simple fact these kids have access to 5000000 more drugs and medical doctors and nutritionists and trainers than the guys in the old days. These kids have more benefits and opportunities to stay healthy than guys 30-100 years ago. They also get far nicer travel luxuries. So the “conditions of the game” thing is probably an excuse. While yes the game is more physical, they also have far more benefits to offset it

players back in the day never "retired" after losing the 1st set. they had more integrity



Read the original post. I am questioning also if there are more tournaments played in combination with the softer new generation.

You also see multiple bath room breaks which I don't remember seeing in the 80s.

So trying to discover if this is more a multi-faceted problem. You believe is not , great, we got your perspective.

i wouldnt argue about it i dont think @nolefam_2024 was born in the 80s. you really had to be there
 
Just a suggestion......I would change the title to withdrawals and not pull outs. :-D


Also, the game is completely different than when you were a kid. Those "tough folks" wouldn't look so tough in a four hour 40 shot rally 5th set of today's game. They played with gut on faster courts, serving and volleying with much quicker points. Look at the average time of a match when you were a kid vs. now. Not the same game.

Becker, musetti, taylor fritz..the list goes on. The out game is not getting better lol

We probably need someone like @Mustard to do some detective work for us to confirm, but I assume matches were generally much faster "back in't day". Nobody on tour is going to be playing completely injury free and it's probably a lot less daunting to consider playing through an injury if you think you'll only be on court for 2 hours.

The idea of straight sets wins taking 2-3 hours seems to have become normalised in the last 15 years or so but even I can remember when such a thing was a rarity.
From what I read here - They were playing more doubles, more tournaments had 5 setters and with lesser medical/pt knowledge though. What they weren't doing was chasing records as much - ao would get skipped by a few top players.
 

ojo rojo

Legend
"Perhaps the higher rates of young tennis pros suffering wrist and elbow problems is not entirely to blame on the advanced technology providing us with an increased stiffness in modern frames and poly strings; it may also be attributed to other rapidly growing technologies; similarly providing increased stiffness, however in a rather more vascular sense of the word"

•INFRAWEB POARNOGRAPHY
& The Decline of Western Civilization•

-Oho Roho
 
It’s a combination of slower courts all year, laziness with players (as long as I get my appearance check so what really incentive is there? You can make a great living just showing up ) , and just downright mental weakness because these players are no young male adults. They are little reality show pampered women. They’re freaking divas.


Really it’s all on the parents and social media sadly

I don’t know how much the change in the game contributes to this though for the simple fact these kids have access to 5000000 more drugs and medical doctors and nutritionists and trainers than the guys in the old days. These kids have more benefits and opportunities to stay healthy than guys 30-100 years ago. They also get far nicer travel luxuries. So the “conditions of the game” thing is probably an excuse. While yes the game is more physical, they also have far more benefits to offset it
Being stronger at a certain point makes you more injury prone. Ligament and tendon ruptures are more likely to snap if you put more force on them.
 

leodevlin

Professional
"Perhaps the higher rates of young tennis pros suffering wrist and elbow problems is not entirely to blame on the advanced technology providing us with an increased stiffness in modern frames and poly strings; it may also be attributed to other rapidly growing technologies; similarly providing increased stiffness, however in a rather more vascular sense of the word"

•INFRAWEB POARNOGRAPHY
& The Decline of Western Civilization•

-Oho Roho
:-D
 

urban

Legend
Of course, Zverev was injured and hampered on his career multiple time by muscle injuries in his legs, not only once due to his fall in semi at RG 2022. For instance, he was already injured against Thiem at RG 2018, also at RG 2023, and at USO 2023, at Cologne ATP, He pulled out multiple times out of Davis Cup commitments citing muscle injuries.
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
The game is far more physical imo. Everything has changed. The advances have been numerous, with the surfaces, the shoes, the poly strings, etc has made the game so much faster and more demanding than ever before. Go look up a 1980s match and compare it to today, the physical stress placed on the modern player’s body in a single baseline point today is gigantically higher than yesteryear.
Look at this 70's rally. They could sip coffee while hitting.

 

Purestriker

Legend
Becker, musetti, taylor fritz..the list goes on. The out game is not getting better lol


From what I read here - They were playing more doubles, more tournaments had 5 setters and with lesser medical/pt knowledge though. What they weren't doing was chasing records as much - ao would get skipped by a few top players.
I didn't say it was better, I said it was different. The game is played longer and that is the result of a lot of variables. But comparing eras is extremely difficult to do, especially when you are trying to say that people were just tougher. Training and nutrition far exceed what players in the 80's and even 90's used.
 

thrust

Legend
The most famous incident I can think of was Edberg retiring with an injury in the 1990 AO final against Lendl. It was played in January, 1990, so it missed the 80's decade by a few weeks.
A real shame as Edberg was totally dominating Lendl before the injury.
 
A

ALCARAZWON

Guest
I agree with that , though Boris definitely started to make it more physical.
Lendl, Connors and Borg were the most physical baseliners of the 70s/80s, and relied less on their serves than Becker.
Becker serve-volleyed a bunch, not exactly a grinder.
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
Lendl, Connors and Borg were the most physical baseliners of the 80s, and relied less on their serves than Becker.
Becker serve-volleyed a bunch anyway, not exactly a grinder.
Sorry for my indiscretion.
I always wanted to ask you if producing Bold Capital Letters is really effortless to you.
 

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
My favourite was watching players walk back to the center of the court to regain neutral position, on clay. The faster paced matches back then were nice enough, but the slower the court, the more amusing it was.
 

Cabeza del Demonio

Professional
I was a child then and it's obviously was long time ago so I concede that my memory is not 100% but I don't remember players pulling out due to injuries from tournaments or quitting in the middle of a match.

Does anyone else have that perception? If so, what is the issue with this generation, there is constantly someone pulling out from a tournament or quitting a match.

Is it because tennis has become more physical , busier tournament schedule or softer generation or all of the above?
i dont remember pulling out of your mum in the 80s (starts fortnite dancing)
 
I didn't say it was better, I said it was different. The game is played longer and that is the result of a lot of variables. But comparing eras is extremely difficult to do, especially when you are trying to say that people were just tougher. Training and nutrition far exceed what players in the 80's and even 90's used.
You're referring to a different game. I quoted your op which referenced pull out, so I said the (pull out) game hasn't gotten stronger. Think about what's common among the list of players in that list Becker, musetti, taylor fritz..(all of them knocked up presumably unintentionally).;)

I agree with the rest of your reply.
 

puppybutts

Hall of Fame
how do people always forget Navratilova was the pioneer for hitting the freaking gym for women's tennis? not that the men and women's games were in the same place back then, but still, tennis was still developing as a sport and was not physically at the same caliber as many other sports.
 
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