Injury-forced Switch from One-handed Backhand to Two-handed Backhand

Hi, folks. So, I've been working on developing a one-handed backhand drive for the last few months. Prior to that point, I had always sliced my backhand due to a shoulder injury I sustained years ago. I had thought to strengthen my shoulder enough to avoid re-injuring it, but I managed to hurt it anyway last week in the traditional manner for me: hitting a ball placed with pace right at my feet on my backhand side. So, I've decided that it's time to bite the bullet and switch to a two-handed backhand. (I can hit that same low shot with two hands without any pressure on my injury-prone shoulder.) I've read a lot about the variations in two-handed backhands, but I'm trying to determine what would work best for someone with my shoulder issue who is used to hitting one-handed backhands. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks very much in advance!
 
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mikeler

Moderator
Hi, folks. So, I've been working on developing a one-handed backhand drive for the last few months. Prior to that point, I had always sliced my backhand due to a shoulder injury I sustained years ago. I had thought to strengthen my shoulder enough to avoid re-injuring it, but I managed to hurt it anyway last week in the traditional manner for me: hitting a ball placed with pace right at my feet on my backhand side. So, I've decided that it's time to bite the bullet and switch to a two-handed backhand. (I can hit that same low shot with two hands without any pressure on my injury-prone shoulder.) I've read a lot about the variations in two-handed backhands, but I'm trying to determine what would work best for someone with my shoulder issue who is used to hitting one-handed backhands.

Thanks very much in advance!


I've had an ongoing bout of mild tennis elbow this year. I had a flare up a few weeks ago and was forced to switch to the 2 hander. Luckily, I began my tennis life with a 2 hander for 2 years before switching to a 1 hander. I also used a 2 hander coming back to tennis a decade ago for almost a year. The big key is to use your left hand as the dominant force. Your right arm is just along for the ride. Think of hitting a lefty forehand choked up a little bit. Those low, hard and deep balls are murder on the elbow with a 1 hander. Good luck.
 
I've had an ongoing bout of mild tennis elbow this year. I had a flare up a few weeks ago and was forced to switch to the 2 hander. Luckily, I began my tennis life with a 2 hander for 2 years before switching to a 1 hander. I also used a 2 hander coming back to tennis a decade ago for almost a year. The big key is to use your left hand as the dominant force. Your right arm is just along for the ride. Think of hitting a lefty forehand choked up a little bit. Those low, hard and deep balls are murder on the elbow with a 1 hander. Good luck.

Thanks for tips, Mikeler! (And I hope your tennis elbow subsides soon. I have it, as well.)
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
Hi, folks. So, I've been working on developing a one-handed backhand drive for the last few months. Prior to that point, I had always sliced my backhand due to a shoulder injury I sustained years ago. I had thought to strengthen my shoulder enough to avoid re-injuring it, but I managed to hurt it anyway last week in the traditional manner for me: hitting a ball placed with pace right at my feet on my backhand side. So, I've decided that it's time to bite the bullet and switch to a two-handed backhand. (I can hit that same low shot with two hands without any pressure on my injury-prone shoulder.) I've read a lot about the variations in two-handed backhands, but I'm trying to determine what would work best for someone with my shoulder issue who is used to hitting one-handed backhands. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks very much in advance!

I played a 1hb for about 15 years after which I switched to a 2hb (over 25 years ago), because of a recurring elbow injury. My suggestions are these: (1) understand that a 2hb is basically a left handed forehand where the right hand is passive, and the left hand is dominant and swings just like a forehand finishing over the shoulder. That, alone, should give you cause for comfort about your ailing right arm. (2) Imitate Andre Agassi's backhand. He has perfect 2hb technique.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
I would go with a conti grip on your lower (normally dominant) hand and either an Eastern or SW grip for your top hand. The conti grip should allow your top arm to assume a more dominant role in transferring power and generating spin.

As far as other variations go (elbows bent/straight), I'm not really sure which will put less stress on your ailing shoulder. It might depend on the exact nature of your shoulder problem. Best to experiment a bit. Probably the best models to study are Safin, Nalbandian, and Murray. Others worth studying include Nadal, Djokovic and Agassi.
 
I played a 1hb for about 15 years after which I switched to a 2hb (over 25 years ago), because of a recurring elbow injury. My suggestions are these: (1) understand that a 2hb is basically a left handed forehand where the right hand is passive, and the left hand is dominant and swings just like a forehand finishing over the shoulder. That, alone, should give you cause for comfort about your ailing right arm. (2) Imitate Andre Agassi's backhand. He has perfect 2hb technique.

Thanks for the tips, Limpin! (And I've always been a fan of Agassi's backhand.)
 
I would go with a conti grip on your lower (normally dominant) hand and either an Eastern or SW grip for your top hand. The conti grip should allow your top arm to assume a more dominant role in transferring power and generating spin.

As far as other variations go (elbows bent/straight), I'm not really sure which will put less stress on your ailing shoulder. It might depend on the exact nature of your shoulder problem. Best to experiment a bit. Probably the best models to study are Safin, Nalbandian, and Murray. Others worth studying include Nadal, Djokovic and Agassi.

Thanks for the tips! I'm going to try and groove a stroke with the continental/SW grip combination. Agassi's style is what I like the most, but it may put more pressure on my shoulder than I prefer. I'll test it out.
 

Mountain Ghost

Professional
1HBH to 2HBH

I really think Agassi pulls too much with his right hand to be a great role model for a two handed backhand. It certainly worked for him, but I would suggest much more push with the left than he ever gave it.

MG
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
^ Perhaps Andre did pull with the right arm a bit more than the others. I've always assumed that he pulled with both arms, perhaps more with his right, at the beginning of his forward swing. As his racket gets closer to the contact point, his left arm assumed a greater role. But I could be wrong about that. However, from descriptions from Andre himself, this appears to be pretty much what is going on.

There is a quote from him saying that his BH is right hand dominant. However, another quote appears to indicate that his right hand is dominant early in his stroke but his left hand assumes the dominant role later in his forward swing.
.
 
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I really think Agassi pulls too much with his right hand to be a great role model for a two handed backhand. It certainly worked for him, but I would suggest much more push with the left than he ever gave it.

MG

Thanks for the advice!

Perhaps he hit like that because he started with a one-handed backhand? Right now, I'm definitely focusing on powering with my offhand (right), just to save my shoulder. So, I may not end up with anything like Agassi's shot, even though I'm hitting straight-armed.
 

BevelDevil

Hall of Fame
This "left vs. right" and "Is the 2hbh just a left-handed forehand?" debate just went on in another thread.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=423334


I took the stand that:

1. A right-hand dominant swing is a viable option
2. The 2hbh is more like a 1hbh than a left-handed forehand.

Of course, since you have an injury with your right, perhaps you should choose a strong-left variant. However, this may not be necessary because even with a strong right-handed 2hbh, the back swing and followthrough will be shorter and the left hand will still be providing some support.


Here are key points (and links) I brought up in that thread.

"Left vs. Right"
So apparently, the Agassi comments about the right-hand came as he was announcing with McEnroe during the Federer-Roddick match at the 2007 USO.

AA: "The best backhands in the world..." (Unfortunately, this is only a partial clip from the match)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaaoVYa6304#t=0m10s

If someone can dig up the whole discussion in a youtube clip that would be awesome.


Here's a recount of the AA commentary:
http://blogs.montrealgazette.com/2007/09/06/andre-agassi-is-a-genius/
------------------

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=422677&page=2


"Not a left-handed forehand"

I don't think 2hbh'ers are pushing off with the left leg any more than a 1hbh'er is, at least on a typical closed- or neutral-stance 2hbh. And they are certainly pushing off less than a left-handed forehand.

On a 2hbh, notice how often their left leg remains passive on the forward swing. This wouldn't happen if they were pushing off the back foot.


The left foot tells the story. Look at the left foot in each of these shots, the righty 1hbh, righty 2hbh, and lefty forehand:


Roger's left foot (1hbh)
roger_federer_backhand_05.jpg


Andre's left foot (2hbh)
1995-01-11_bhpg-vertical.jpg


Nadal's left foot (forehand)
7708241.jpg


Only one person is really using his left leg for power, and that's Nadal, the forehand.

Watch this video of Andre and see how frequently his left leg just dangles, hovers and slides during the forward swing. Andre is not alone in this tendency; it is normal for closed- or neutral stance 2hbhs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql5xVpACt1Y


Compare that with Verdasco's left-handed forehand. His left foot is pushing off the ground throughout the forward swing (unless he's airborne). I chose this Verdasco clip because he's hitting more with a neutral stance. On open stances, the difference with the 2hbh is even more pronounced.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkyL5XF1QO4


Cliffs notes: The body motion of a closed/neutral-stance 2hbh is more like a 1hbh than it is a forehand, whether or not it is right-hand dominant.


Finally, here is a link to John Yandell's analysis of different backhand strokes

http://www.tennisplayer.net/public/..._complex/Copy of 2hd_bh_simplest_complex.html


Good luck.
 
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fuzz nation

G.O.A.T.
Not to complicate things for you, but I use both strokes on my backhand wing just fine. Those balls that get "in" on my feet are tricky for me to hit one-handed, so I comfortably "fight them off" with a compact two-handed stroke. My aptitude is much stronger though, for hitting a one-hander, so my more routine rally strokes work fine in that style. In fact, I have a little more confidence in both the accuracy and consistency of my one-handed backhand than with my routine forehands (me, me, me...).

Hopefully that two-hander will relieve a lot of stress on your joints. I'd say that you ought to put a premium on building habits for a quick, efficient setup so that you can avoid a rushed stroke through the ball (in case you don't quite have that now). I suspect that this might be a problem, since you injured that shoulder with the one-hander. That stroke is only super cozy when its timing is good. Rush it though, and WOW that's tough on the shoulder.

Focus on learning to quickly pop to your setup ahead of the ball and that two-hander should be a breeze with a weight transfer and complete shoulder turn through contact. Your shoulders themselves shouldn't have to do much work at all. If you want to make sure that you're learning good habits there instead of bad ones, you might want to hire a trained eye for a lesson or two so that you'll be more likely to work in the right direction as you hone that stroke.
 

mikeler

Moderator
Funny, my elbow was much better last time out and my right hand was really trying to do too much on the 2 hander. When that happens FOR ME, my 2 hander is not as good. Other people can hit a great 2 hander with both hands taking a role, but it just does not work FOR ME. I ended up finishing the match with my 1 hander.
 
Thanks for the analysis and demonstrative photos, Beveldevil! I'll think about what you're saying and see what works best for me. (Oh, and I'm a lefty. I didn't mention that in my initial post.)
 
Not to complicate things for you, but I use both strokes on my backhand wing just fine. Those balls that get "in" on my feet are tricky for me to hit one-handed, so I comfortably "fight them off" with a compact two-handed stroke. My aptitude is much stronger though, for hitting a one-hander, so my more routine rally strokes work fine in that style. In fact, I have a little more confidence in both the accuracy and consistency of my one-handed backhand than with my routine forehands (me, me, me...).

Hopefully that two-hander will relieve a lot of stress on your joints. I'd say that you ought to put a premium on building habits for a quick, efficient setup so that you can avoid a rushed stroke through the ball (in case you don't quite have that now). I suspect that this might be a problem, since you injured that shoulder with the one-hander. That stroke is only super cozy when its timing is good. Rush it though, and WOW that's tough on the shoulder.

Focus on learning to quickly pop to your setup ahead of the ball and that two-hander should be a breeze with a weight transfer and complete shoulder turn through contact. Your shoulders themselves shouldn't have to do much work at all. If you want to make sure that you're learning good habits there instead of bad ones, you might want to hire a trained eye for a lesson or two so that you'll be more likely to work in the right direction as you hone that stroke.

Thanks for the tips and thoughts! I've actually done what you mentioned before: hitting those low, fast backhands with a two-hander, but my form is lousy. I figure if I'm going to learn to hit a two-hander from that position, why not do it from all positions and reduce the risk of injuring myself again?

A quick set up is definitely important, and I'm probably not doing it quickly enough when these injuries occur. My problem is that sometimes, set up or no, I'm going to get jammed, especially when someone's really hitting a hard ball at my feet. So, I'd rather be safe than hurt.

A couple of two-handed backhand lessons definitely would be smart. I know three teaching pros really well who have helped me with my game in the past, so I'll check in with one of them on this topic.
 
Funny, my elbow was much better last time out and my right hand was really trying to do too much on the 2 hander. When that happens FOR ME, my 2 hander is not as good. Other people can hit a great 2 hander with both hands taking a role, but it just does not work FOR ME. I ended up finishing the match with my 1 hander.

It will be interesting to see what works and what doesn't for me. I'm actually looking forward to learning this stroke. :)
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
Asked Answered,

For some reason unknown to me, BevelDevil seems to be on a crusade to prove a falacy - that a 2hb is not basically a left handed forehand, but, rather a right handed backhand with left hand support. He's wrong about that.

Bjorn Borg's backhand was what BevelDevil describes, and he was the only great player who hit a 2hb that way. Except for Borg virtually every single great 2hb is hit like a left handed forehand (except Nadal who is reversed).

Anyway, here are some videos that I posted in the "other thread" on this topic (that BevelDevil knows about but omitted from his post above, even though he's continuing to debate with me over this subject in the other thread), of some of the greatest 2hb's of all time. I'm confident that if you focus on these players' left hands while watching, it will be clear to you that their left hands are dominant and their right hands are passive. Hopefully, this will settle the matter for you.

Agassi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiHIklJiM7Ush.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql5xVpACt1Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIq1JwaNUbs

Nalbandian:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XphTboHQLtA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV6bJuCLNdE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp&v=Peh9pJ2Zj-Y

Nadal WW backhand:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnfsKxLkWlM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5fECVr2IPE&feature=player_detailpage#t=64s

Djokovic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVdpaZ-4qxw&feature=player_detailpage#t=14s

Safin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfiWd0bgGTE[/QUOTE]
 
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SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
BevelDevil, none of your arguments are convincing. I have only seen a few 2-handed shots that resemble a 1-handed Bh and Agassi's 2-hander is not one of them (despite what he is quoted as saying in the link you posted). His right hand might be dominant at the start of his fwd swing but it switches to left hand dominant later in his forward swing (before contact, I believe). This is what it looks like from studying his stroke and another quote from him confirms this.

The vast majority of 2-handed strokes do indeed resemble a lefty Fh. Forget about those handful of foot placements you show. The mechanics, the kinetic chain, are pretty much Fh mechanics. Look at the hip and torso rotations and the manner in which kinetic energy is transferred to the arm. This is much more important than anything else.

Please do the OP a favor and do not hijack this thread to further your crusade. You can pull my quote to that other thread if you wish to continue this discussion. This is not the place for it.
.
 
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Regarding the issue of which arm dominates in a two-handed backhand, I'm definitely going to treat the stroke as dominated by my offhand (right for me) just because that will protect my shoulder best. I'll leave the general debate to experts. :) Again, thank you to all of you for your input and thoughts!
 

TheCheese

Professional
I see there's some debate about whether it's a 2 handed lefty forehand or not.

I'd definitely recommend using almost entirely your left hand to control the stroke. If I don't do this I end up with a flatter stiff shot that's not nearly as versatile.

I think Nalbandian is the best model for the 2HBH. He get so much wrist with his left hand that he's able to generate amazing spin and angles. That's what you want.
 
I see there's some debate about whether it's a 2 handed lefty forehand or not.

I'd definitely recommend using almost entirely your left hand to control the stroke. If I don't do this I end up with a flatter stiff shot that's not nearly as versatile.

I think Nalbandian is the best model for the 2HBH. He get so much wrist with his left hand that he's able to generate amazing spin and angles. That's what you want.

Thanks for the advice!
 
I hit for an hour on the ball machine yesterday, all two-handed backhands. I used a continental grip for my left, lower hand, a semiwestern for my right, upper hand and hit more or less straight-armed, emphasizing the power of my right arm over my left. At first, a lot of my balls were popping up or sailing long, but I eventually started hitting them in a lower and lower arc, harder and harder. No shoulder pain at all.

One of the pros at my club saw me hitting and noted that my lower hand grip had turned too far under, so I adjusted it back up to the continental grip. Another pro then watched me hit and told me it was looking good and that it could turn into a real weapon with practice. So, more practice for me.

Thanks, everyone, for the advice!
 
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SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
It appears that Agassi did not use a continental grip on his right hand for his BH. He used an Eastern FH grip for his left hand and shaded over toward the Eastern BH for his right hand. This may be one reason why his right hand may have played a more active role than 2-handed players that use a true continental for the lower hand. Nonetheless, from studying his BH, it appears that Andre's right hand seems dominant for part of the swing while the left hand is more dominant later in the stroke.

http://www.optimumtennis.net/andre-agassi-backhand.htm

http://www.top-tennis-training.net/#/backhand/4557008050
 
It appears that Agassi did not use a continental grip on his right hand for his BH. He used an Eastern FH grip for his left hand and shaded over toward the Eastern BH for his right hand. This may be one reason why his right hand may have played a more active role than 2-handed players that use a true continental for the lower hand. Nonetheless, from studying his BH, it appears that Andre's right hand seems dominant for part of the swing while the left hand is more dominant later in the stroke.

http://www.optimumtennis.net/andre-agassi-backhand.htm

http://www.top-tennis-training.net/#/backhand/4557008050

Thanks for the information and links! I really enjoyed reading the article on Agassi's backhand.
 

BevelDevil

Hall of Fame
The vast majority of 2-handed strokes do indeed resemble a lefty Fh. Forget about those handful of foot placements you show. The mechanics, the kinetic chain, are pretty much Fh mechanics. Look at the hip and torso rotations and the manner in which kinetic energy is transferred to the arm. This is much more important than anything else.

Please do the OP a favor and do not hijack this thread to further your crusade. You can pull my quote to that other thread if you wish to continue this discussion. This is not the place for it.
.


If it is relevant for one person (Limpin) to say "it is a left handed forehand", it is then obviously relevant if someone else (me) says, "I think that's wrong and here's why." It's fine if you disagree with me, but this topic is entirely relevant.

BTW, the OP himself thanked me for the "hijack"! (See above)


Here's a question: If the 2hbh were "like a left-handed forehand", why is it so often hit (and hit well) from a closed stance? How many good players go out of their way to hit a forehand from a closed stance? Seems like forehand groundies are only hit with a closed stance when on the run.

Stroke mechanics include foot placement and weight transfer, do they not?

I agree that shoulders and hips are more open at contact and I should have mentioned that, and will in the future. My analysis focused on footwork, weight transfer and uncoiling, all of which are very important. And in these aspects, the closed/neutral-stance 2hbh is very un-forehand like.

Ultimately, saying "like a forehand" or "like a backhand" are both simplications, and perhaps that is the source of the problem. A 2hbh is a 2hbh, not a 1-hander and not a forehand.


The open question is, what analogy, if any, is useful? And how far should that analogy be pushed?
 

BevelDevil

Hall of Fame
Thanks for the analysis and demonstrative photos, Beveldevil! I'll think about what you're saying and see what works best for me. (Oh, and I'm a lefty. I didn't mention that in my initial post.)


You're welcome. Just keep in mind that at contact your body will be more open than on a 1hbh.
 

1HBH Rocks

Semi-Pro
If it is relevant for one person (Limpin) to say "it is a left handed forehand", it is then obviously relevant if someone else (me) says, "I think that's wrong and here's why." It's fine if you disagree with me, but this topic is entirely relevant.

BTW, the OP himself thanked me for the "hijack"! (See above)


Here's a question: If the 2hbh were "like a left-handed forehand", why is it so often hit (and hit well) from a closed stance? How many good players go out of their way to hit a forehand from a closed stance? Seems like forehand groundies are only hit with a closed stance when on the run.

Stroke mechanics include foot placement and weight transfer, do they not?

Watch Federer's hips and Agassi's hips in your own picture... Agassi's further opened while Federer will keep himself side on for a longer period of time. It then means that it's a different type of swing. Also to answer your point, I suspect that a closed stance is easier to execute at many levels, especially for a right handed player hitting from the left side of his body. In principle, if this is right, I'd suppose Nadal would be hitting potentially with more ease than most people and would tend to play it more like a forehand since it's his stronger side.
 
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mntlblok

Hall of Fame
left hand

Been learning to hit the two hander for a few months. Progress only really came when I started trying to control the shot with the left hand - as many have pointed out here as being of importance. I may be the least ambidextrous human on the planet, but it is working out well now.

Each time that I had fiddled with trying the shot over the years, I had kept the extreme Eastern backhand grip that I had used with my one hander. Always gave up almost immediately because the ball would spin into the ground before making it to the net. This time, I used my (now) same right hand grip that I have to use (due to an injury issue) for every other shot - a continental grip.

Interestingly, it has started to feel comfortable enough that I can vary my left hand grip depending on how much spin I want to apply, as well as even sometimes close the face of the racket a bit for more spin just by turning the wrist and "feeling" a slightly more closed racket face.

I'm only comfortable using a "wiper" stroke, so I can't hit it as hard and flat as really good players. That link to optimumtennis and Agassi's two hander is great stuff. May learn to play singles, again, yet. . . :)

Kevin
 
Been learning to hit the two hander for a few months. Progress only really came when I started trying to control the shot with the left hand - as many have pointed out here as being of importance. I may be the least ambidextrous human on the planet, but it is working out well now.

Each time that I had fiddled with trying the shot over the years, I had kept the extreme Eastern backhand grip that I had used with my one hander. Always gave up almost immediately because the ball would spin into the ground before making it to the net. This time, I used my (now) same right hand grip that I have to use (due to an injury issue) for every other shot - a continental grip.

Interestingly, it has started to feel comfortable enough that I can vary my left hand grip depending on how much spin I want to apply, as well as even sometimes close the face of the racket a bit for more spin just by turning the wrist and "feeling" a slightly more closed racket face.

I'm only comfortable using a "wiper" stroke, so I can't hit it as hard and flat as really good players. That link to optimumtennis and Agassi's two hander is great stuff. May learn to play singles, again, yet. . . :)

Kevin

It sounds like your two-hander is developing nicely. Good luck with it!
 
I dont have any real advice but to say maybe not spend so much time trying to model it after X pro players. If you do like that sort of thing, dont rule out the women players, some have amazing backhands.

I went from a one hand to two hand this last year. Lots of work to do, but I just tried alot of grip variations and techniques until I found something that worked for me. I dont actually change my grip on my right (your left) on the backhand, I just keep it (easter, touch shaded to SW). My top hand is about the mirror image. It leads to a bent arm swing, that I think looks more like most of the womens back hands than the mens to be honest. Its also morphed into a very simple shot, mostly a shoulder turn and then rotate into the ball, with not alot of extraneous arm motion. Its rather flattish shot. I can hit the straight arm more heavily topspinned shot, but for me, at 50, it kind of defeats the purpose of what I was looking for, which was a quicker shot that needed less preperation.

One last thing, when I started I hit the ball machine alot, and the topspin felt great, as its easy to groove a shot on the ball machine. Playing against my usual partner, helped me explore more about the 2hbh.

Good Luck,
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
I dont have any real advice but to say maybe not spend so much time trying to model it after X pro players. If you do like that sort of thing, dont rule out the women players, some have amazing backhands.

I would rule it out immediately. IMO, unless there is some physical limitation that prevents executing stroke production like the men, there's no reason for a man to emulate a woman's stroke. It's not an optimal way to hit the ball.
 
Not saying your wrong, but what is your reasoning on this? There is little agreement on which males stroke is "optimal", and it changes from generation to generation. So optimal is a difficult thing to define. Might you not agree, that optimal for a given man, may be using the technique of a top female?
 
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I dont have any real advice but to say maybe not spend so much time trying to model it after X pro players. If you do like that sort of thing, dont rule out the women players, some have amazing backhands.

I went from a one hand to two hand this last year. Lots of work to do, but I just tried alot of grip variations and techniques until I found something that worked for me. I dont actually change my grip on my right (your left) on the backhand, I just keep it (easter, touch shaded to SW). My top hand is about the mirror image. It leads to a bent arm swing, that I think looks more like most of the womens back hands than the mens to be honest. Its also morphed into a very simple shot, mostly a shoulder turn and then rotate into the ball, with not alot of extraneous arm motion. Its rather flattish shot. I can hit the straight arm more heavily topspinned shot, but for me, at 50, it kind of defeats the purpose of what I was looking for, which was a quicker shot that needed less preperation.

One last thing, when I started I hit the ball machine alot, and the topspin felt great, as its easy to groove a shot on the ball machine. Playing against my usual partner, helped me explore more about the 2hbh.

Good Luck,

Thanks for the suggestions and for sharing your experiences!
 

BevelDevil

Hall of Fame
^ Still not buying most of your arguments BD but I'm not going to clutter this thread with this discussion. I have not yet seen the other thread. Please provide a link and I will respond to your erroneous statements/conclusions in that thread.

Edit: I found that other thread and have posted my response there:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=6550507#post6550507
.

I exposed your spurious argument in the other thread.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=6556043#post6556043



Watch Federer's hips and Agassi's hips in your own picture... Agassi's further opened while Federer will keep himself side on for a longer period of time. It then means that it's a different type of swing. .

But the question is, What causes the body to open? What's the start of the kinetic chain? Is it loading and unloading of the back leg, as in a (modern) forehand? No, it's not. (See my link above.)

The kinetic chain has a different starting point on a neutral/closed 2hbh. And it's unwise to gloss over this difference, as is happening in this and many other treads.


I do agree that the 2hbh is more like a version of the classic forehand. But I don't think many people around here use it, watch it, or are familiar with it.
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
Not saying your wrong, but what is your reasoning on this? There is little agreement on which males stroke is "optimal", and it changes from generation to generation. So optimal is a difficult thing to define. Might you not agree, that optimal for a given man, may be using the technique of a top female?

In this context, optimal is easy to define. It must means the best possible option. Men incorporate a lot more pronation and suppination on both sides than the women. I don't know why because it doesn't take a lot of strength to execute properly. Nevertheless, the women just don't do it.

No, I don't agree with your last sentence, unless, as I said previously, that given man has some injury or physical limitation. Optimal means the best possible option. Hitting like the women is not the best option in any respect, IMO.
 
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Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
I exposed your spurious argument in the other thread.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=6556043#post6556043


But the question is, What causes the body to open? What's the start of the kinetic chain? Is it loading and unloading of the back leg, as in a (modern) forehand? No, it's not. (See my link above.)

The kinetic chain has a different starting point on a neutral/closed 2hbh. And it's unwise to gloss over this difference, as is happening in this and many other treads.


I do agree that the 2hbh is more like a version of the classic forehand. But I don't think many people around here use it, watch it, or are familiar with it.

Bevel,

I hate to be so blunt, but, if you're going to go there, then I've got to tell you that the only thing you've exposed is that you don't know how to hit a 2hb.
 
This seems like a men do it, we dont know why, but it must better argument.

Kind of like, men like blue, women like red. You are a man, so you must like blue. Liking blue, is best if you are a man.

That being said, after seeing a bit of this argument some of you are having about the other topic mentioned on this post, I dont think I care to get into it. lol.

Good Luck AA. There are lots of ways to do things, so good luck finding the one that works best for you!
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
This seems like a men do it, we dont know why, but it must better argument.

Kind of like, men like blue, women like red. You are a man, so you must like blue. Liking blue, is best if you are a man.

That being said, after seeing a bit of this argument some of you are having about the other topic mentioned on this post, I dont think I care to get into it. lol.

Good Luck AA. There are lots of ways to do things, so good luck finding the one that works best for you!

It's not. I explained it quite plainly. I'll repeat one more time, just for you: THE WOMEN DON'T SUPPINATE AND PRONATE ON EITHER SIDE THE WAY THE MEN DO. Did you catch it that time? That make all the difference in the World. Of course there are lots of ways to do things. But, in this case, not all of those ways are equally effective.
 

1HBH Rocks

Semi-Pro
Not saying your wrong, but what is your reasoning on this? There is little agreement on which males stroke is "optimal", and it changes from generation to generation. So optimal is a difficult thing to define. Might you not agree, that optimal for a given man, may be using the technique of a top female?

Or maybe not... as for how good a shot is technically, we'd need to compare relatively similar players in physical terms and see what's different about their strokes, how each detail changes the results. We judge with measures, not with impressions; too much of tennis in the last decades has been left to poorly supported claims.
 

1HBH Rocks

Semi-Pro
It's not. I explained it quite plainly. I'll repeat one more time, just for you: THE WOMEN DON'T SUPPINATE AND PRONATE ON EITHER SIDE THE WAY THE MEN DO. Did you catch it that time? That make all the difference in the World. Of course there are lots of ways to do things. But, in this case, not all of those ways are equally effective.

False. Sam Stosur's forehand is a model, even for male players. She's a rare player to prepare her forehand like the biggest hitters on the men's tour -- and, unsurprisingly, she's consistent and hits big. As much as I hate many of the women's strokes, her forehand is huge and she can get the same kind of movements the Federer and Nadal of this world have, except she can't do it just as fast as they do it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=E_mNZGq8TfE
If you watch closely, she even supinates subtly on her backhand slice like the best male players.
 
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Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
False. Sam Stosur's forehand is a model, even for male players. She's a rare player to prepare her forehand like the biggest hitters on the men's tour -- and, unsurprisingly, she's consistent and hits big. As much as I hate many of the women's strokes, her forehand is huge and she can get the same kind of movements the Federer and Nadal of this world have, except she can't do it just as fast as they do it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=E_mNZGq8TfE
If you watch closely, she even supinates subtly on her backhand slice like the best male players.

I agree that Sam Stosur is a semi-exception to the rule, on her forehand.
 
See that prompted some discussion. I dont understand why you are so angry about things Limp? I didnt attack you, I didnt say your were wrong, I simply asked a question. You seem to talk in absolutes, and get angry if any one questions that, even for the sake of discussion. If everyone believed, the conventional wisdom of their day, and took it as "absolute" fact, then we would still think the world is flat, man could not fly, and a myriad of other things.

Secondly, when you use the word "optimum", it needs context. For instance you cannot say something is optimum, whithout giving criteria which you base it one. Such as power, consistancy, injury prevention or so forth.

Anyway, I understand what you are saying, Im not wholly convinced that it by itself, means that technique is always superior. Likewise, Im not sure it is not superior. Questioning things, helps one understand them better, no?
 
Hi, folks. I had a chance to record some video of me hitting forehands and my new two-handed backhand, and the link is below. I know my forehand's a mess and comments on it are welcome, but I'd really like to get some feedback on how the two-handed backhand is progressing (assuming it is progressing). Thanks in advance! (I've created a separate thread for the video, too.)

http://youtu.be/9V-a2KE-x3U

Good Luck AA. There are lots of ways to do things, so good luck finding the one that works best for you!

Thank you! (Sorry. Missed this post until tonight.)
 
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vil

Semi-Pro
Hi, folks. I had a chance to record some video of me hitting forehands and my new two-handed backhand, and the link is below. I know my forehand's a mess and comments on it are welcome, but I'd really like to get some feedback on how the two-handed backhand is progressing (assuming it is progressing). Thanks in advance!

http://youtu.be/9V-a2KE-x3U




Thank you! (Sorry. Missed this post until tonight.)

Mate, you just planted a bug in my head. I don't have a problem with shoulder but elbow. It's been a pain for some time and I'm thinking of switching from 1hb to 2hb as well. I'm a bit worried, it may take a long time before I get comfortable with it. How long have you been hitting your 2hb?
I watched your video and you seem to strike the ball quite nicely. I'm not a coach, so I'll leave comments and technicalities for experts but considering you only just switched recently..you are doing great.
 
Mate, you just planted a bug in my head. I don't have a problem with shoulder but elbow. It's been a pain for some time and I'm thinking of switching from 1hb to 2hb as well. I'm a bit worried, it may take a long time before I get comfortable with it. How long have you been hitting your 2hb?
I watched your video and you seem to strike the ball quite nicely. I'm not a coach, so I'll leave comments and technicalities for experts but considering you only just switched recently..you are doing great.

I have mild tennis elbow, and a two-handed backhand really seems to alleviate it.

I've been hitting the two-handed backhand now for about a month, and thanks! :)
 
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