Injury Time-Outs Are a Tour Epidemic

JOHN MCENROE CALLS INJURY TIMEOUTS A TOUR EPIDEMIC

John McEnroe said the use of injury timeouts is “absolutely an epidemic” on the tour, speaking Wednesday via an ESPN2 conference call.

The latest outbreak of timeout-itis occurred last weekend in Montreal, when Juan Martin del Potro called the trainer twice and took a bathroom break during his championship match against Andy Murray. The Argentine had treatment on a sore shoulder during a tricky moment – he was up 6-5 in the second set and Murray was about to serve to stay in the match. Del Potro called the trainer back in the third set to rub his thigh.

Andy Murray, who won the match, was diplomatic about it afterwards: “It’s not the best time to have an injury timeout (in the second set), no question about that, but you know, if the guy is struggling or is injured, then obviously I don’t have a problem with him taking the timeout.”

John McEnroe does have a problem with it:
“The players are getting more and more athletic and doing more and more to get themselves in tip top condition. And to be someone who says, “Look I need a little rub down on my legs” (when you’re) being broken down by your opponent – mentally throwing the (other) guy off as well as physically getting something to help yourself recover – it’s against everything that sports is about, I think.”

It hasn’t always been this way. The injury time out rule is a modern-day invention – established after an incident at the 1995 US Open, when player Shuzo Matsuoka defaulted out of the first round due to severe cramping. At the time, a player automatically forfeited the match if he requested medical treatment. Matsukoa didn’t ask for a trainer, but spent so much time writhing in agony on the court, unattended, that he was defaulted on a time violation. It was almost as painful to watch as experience, and the medical time out rule was established to avoid future grisly scenes.

John McEnroe says the rule is being abused:
“What’s meant to be a rule to be helpful has gone to absurd levels now with people obviously stretching the rules and taking advantage. Clearly there is a big difference between a real injury and needing a breather. Or trying to throw your opponnent. . . . The bathroom breaks and injury time outs have been pretty key components in the matches, which was not meant to happen, originally.”

It’s not just John McEnroe or crusty tennis purists nattering about the continuous play of the good old days, when no one sat down during changeovers or toweled off from head to toe after every point. Both Andy Roddick and Roger Federer have complained about players abusing the system, taking lengthy time outs (sometimes up to 10 minutes when evaluation and treatment is factored in) for issues related to physical conditioning and not dire injury.

Roddick complained about the rule at this year’s Australian Open, when Novak Djokjovic was treated for cramps and soreness during their quarterfinal, before retiring from the match (via Reuters):
“I looked over (at Djokovic) and I was confused, because I thought it was one injury per timeout, and I saw a calf, a neck, and an arm but I guess cramping is one condition. There’s obviously… a little bit of grey area there. Hopefully we’ll be able to do something about it.”

Roger Federer quipped: “I’m almost in favor of saying, you know what, if you’re not fit enough, just get out of here.“

It’s an issue on the WTA tour as well. Dinara Safina rolled her eyes at the rule while playing in Los Angeles this month: “I’m competing if I’m stepping on the court. Don’t find excuses. . . I will never call a trainer if I have a headache. This way I’m very honest. If I call for something it must be really bad.”

Both Roddick and Federer say they want the rule reviewed. John McEnroe thinks change could come soon: “There’s no doubt it needs to be addressed and changed. That conversation has been taking place in the locker rooms. . .So hopefully at the end of this year it will be dealt with.”

But how can the tours really deal with it? The rule was established because of a cramping tennis player. Yes, Matsuoka’s case was extreme – but do Djokovic and Del Potro really need to roll and moan on the court before the chair umpire lets them call a trainer? A piece in the NYTimes suggests a boxing-style corner man be assigned to each player, to rub, tape and hydrate at will during changeovers. I say we give each player one three minute time out per match, which can be used for any reason and at any time. If a player uses it to mess up their opponent’s service game, only to default after rolling his ankle in the third set tiebreaker – that’s just bad karma.
Or maybe this is much ado about nothing. . .what do you think?

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http://www.gototennisblog.com/2009/08/19/john-mcenroe-calls-injury-timeouts-a-tour-epidemic/
 
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Lol at Federer's quote "if you're not fit get out of here" when he is still whining about his back injury against Murray last year.
 
Lol at Federer's quote "if you're not fit get out of here" when he is still whining about his back injury against Murray last year.

Can't have an honest discussion w/o flaming of Federer? What are your thoughts on injury timeouts? Do you agree w/ McEnroe? This doesn't need to be another dissection of Fed quotes...:roll:

I don't think they should be outlawed, but players do use them quite liberally. The rule should be 1 injury timeout per 3 set match, and 2 allowed per 5 set match. If you go over, you default the match.
 
Lol at Federer's quote "if you're not fit get out of here" when he is still whining about his back injury against Murray last year.

i actually think it's a good quote, federer's back injury was long-term and
i didn't see him taking loads of time-outs in his match with murray. the problem is when the *injury* is completely fake..other sports have hassles with this too...soccer comes to mind.

basically...i would change the rule to no trainer at all...and you start the next game after 90 seconds...and 1 bathroom break a match.
 
I guess I should've put Federer or Nadal in the title to get people to respond:-?

I actually thought this was a pretty good topic for discussion....I guess not...
 
Lol at Federer's quote "if you're not fit get out of here" when he is still whining about his back injury against Murray last year.

Whining? A player can't merely STATE he was having problems? I don't remember him calling for a trainer, do you? And as far as I can tell, this is the issue under discussion.

(nor did Fed mention his back problems contemporaneously, which even less justifies a charge of "whining")
 
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Lol at Federer's quote "if you're not fit get out of here" when he is still whining about his back injury against Murray last year.
Etremely stupid post from you!!Federer is top 5 fittest on ATP-tour. Federer has never retired A SINGLE MATCH,if you are INJURED its one thing, but if youre just not fit enough its another thing! (Djokovic & Jankovic being the best examples)
 
It hasn’t always been this way. The injury time out rule is a modern-day invention – established after an incident at the 1995 US Open, when player Shuzo Matsuoka defaulted out of the first round due to severe cramping. At the time, a player automatically forfeited the match if he requested medical treatment. Matsukoa didn’t ask for a trainer, but spent so much time writhing in agony on the court, unattended, that he was defaulted on a time violation. It was almost as painful to watch as experience, and the medical time out rule was established to avoid future grisly scenes.

The medical time out was not invented after the Matsuoka incident. Medical time outs existed before that. What happened after that was that medical timeouts were allowed for cramping. One medical time out plus 2 changeover treatments for any and all cramping/heat related illness during the match. Also, on a minor correction, he was defaulted with code violations, not time violations.

Honestly, I don't see much changing. I don't think that they will ever take away the medical timeouts for cramping or any other injury or illness. I think that one thing they can do is make the player wait until before their own serve to take a medical time out for cramping. This may mean that the player will have to buy some time with code violation point and game penalty until they get to the changeover. I think that would be a good move. This is what they do with toilet breaks now. The toilet break should be at the set break. If it's an emergency, they need to go before their serve during a set.
 
I guess I should've put Federer or Nadal in the title to get people to respond:-?

I actually thought this was a pretty good topic for discussion....I guess not...
It is a good topic for discussion until certain morons get involved in it.
 
I agree with much of what Mac says: it's getting to the point where you're almost waiting and expecting a player who falls behind or is at a critical stage of a match to call for an "injury" timeout - that would suggest that it's being used inappropriately.

It would be too Draconian to change the rule to "if you need an injury timeout, then you have to retire from the match", but I bet you the number of calls would drop spectacularly.. lol
 
I guess I should've put Federer or Nadal in the title to get people to respond:-?

I actually thought this was a pretty good topic for discussion....I guess not...
Yes, if you want a thread with hundreds of posts just put Fed or Nadal in the headline:)
 
Honestly, I don't see much changing. I don't think that they will ever take away the medical timeouts for cramping or any other injury or illness. I think that one thing they can do is make the player wait until before their own serve to take a medical time out for cramping. This may mean that the player will have to buy some time with code violation point and game penalty until they get to the changeover. I think that would be a good move. This is what they do with toilet breaks now. The toilet break should be at the set break. If it's an emergency, they need to go before their serve during a set.

I agree w/ this. Only allowing T.O.'s before your own serve would be a good rules change.
 
Honestly, I don't see much changing. I don't think that they will ever take away the medical timeouts for cramping or any other injury or illness. I think that one thing they can do is make the player wait until before their own serve to take a medical time out for cramping. This may mean that the player will have to buy some time with code violation point and game penalty until they get to the changeover. I think that would be a good move. This is what they do with toilet breaks now. The toilet break should be at the set break. If it's an emergency, they need to go before their serve during a set.

As I understand it, that's sort of like etiquette on tour, right? If so, I agree with codifying it and giving umpires the power to enforce it.
 
Players should only get a medical timeout **after** the match is completed. This way, we don't have to see the constant gamesmanship going on. If they are "injured" then they can't play. Move on. If they aren't fit enough to complete the match, then move on.

Additionally, they time rule needs to be enforced violently, and without prejudice.
 
McEnroe got plenty of timeouts hy holding up play and complaining. He should be the last person to complain about it.

Oldies have no idea what it means to play singles today. They think it is still "touch tennis" of the past.
 
Lol at Federer's quote "if you're not fit get out of here" when he is still whining about his back injury against Murray last year.

LOL

How many medical timeouts did Federer take during that time? The number zero comes to mind...

Federer and Nadal are pretty good examples of guys that play through anything, whether they are winning or losing. They're not guys who abuse rules like this.
 
Wow-I actually agree with Johnny Mac on something. I've never seen basketball or American Football players take long breaks in a game....Is that Del Porto in the top pic pouring water on his head?
 
McEnroe got plenty of timeouts hy holding up play and complaining. He should be the last person to complain about it.

Oldies have no idea what it means to play singles today. They think it is still "touch tennis" of the past.

Of course not...

how could they? carring around 400gm wood 65sqin tallywhackers, wearing canvas pimplesoles and not having 2 game breaks for fresh beverages and ball boys with towels...

oldies are pansies.. new kids are what rules and SUresh is "da man"...

ps: are you that stupid?
 
“I’m almost in favor of saying, you know what, if you’re not fit enough, just get out of here.“

Yeah, I wonder what would people post if Murray had said this.
 
It can be solved simply. If you take an injury timeout, you lose a game. Period. If it is on your serve, you lose your serve and are down a break. It is not your opponents fault that you got injured, and you are definitely affecting the flow of the game by taking the timeout. If you TRULY ARE injured, then it is worth losing a game to get recovered.
 
Jmac does have a good point. Players seem to be abusing the injury time out rule, but then again no one, but that player knows how bad the injury is or whatever.

It certainly looks suspicious when they play well for one set, and then they start loosing the second and all of a sudden take a injury time out.

I'm not a big fan of people taking medical time outs, unless it is something serious, but I suppose it's better to take a medical time out and continue playing, than to retire.
 
It can be solved simply. If you take an injury timeout, you lose a game. Period. If it is on your serve, you lose your serve and are down a break. It is not your opponents fault that you got injured, and you are definitely affecting the flow of the game by taking the timeout. If you TRULY ARE injured, then it is worth losing a game to get recovered.

I surely feel sympathy towards this solution against fake injury time-outs.
Problem is, the umpires are such pussies already as they don't even enforce the simple time violation code - I wonder if they'd have the guts to indeed enforce this.
 
And he barely ever 'whined' about this back injury of his (which happens to be a chronic condition which he's been dealing with throughout his career, btw).

He did bring it up a few times in his interviews, when talking about the last year and a half, which kind of annoyed me, but I wouldn't call it whining. I think the whining was down by some of the hardcore fans.
 
He did bring it up a few times in his interviews, when talking about the last year and a half, which kind of annoyed me, but I wouldn't call it whining. I think the whining was down by some of the hardcore fans.

Yes, he mentioned it a few times, which can't really be surprising considering the fact the problem reared its ugly head again around Dubai.

You're right though, 99% of the whining was done by overzealous fans, the kind of which are ready to diagnose their fav player with pneumonia every time he coughs on court. ;)
Oh, and not to forget: by the Haters of course, who seem triggerhappy to dig it up even more than the fans.
 
He did bring it up a few times in his interviews, when talking about the last year and a half, which kind of annoyed me, but I wouldn't call it whining. I think the whining was down by some of the hardcore fans.
how is that even remotely annoying? Federer has the right to say whatever he want regarding his form. Keyboard warriors like us have the right to say whatever we want but Federer cant even say that his back hurts? Completely unfair.
 
how is that even remotely annoying? Federer has the right to say whatever he want regarding his form. Keyboard warriors like us have the right to say whatever we want but Federer cant even say that his back hurts? Completely unfair.

I never said that he can't say his back hurts, but it seemed that he continued to bring it up even after his back problem went away. Many times many people asked him about his form and he would say"yeah the last year was tough with the mono and the back problems". Once he said, I don't like to make excuses, but I did have mono and back problems, which imo was a contradiction. I'm just saying he did mention it more than what I felt was necessary, hinting that the reason had those losses was due to his back problems. But like I said, "whining" is an exaggeration. He never whined about it.

I feel honored to be known as a keyboard warrior. At least I'm a warrior in some respect.
 
Players should only get a medical timeout **after** the match is completed. This way, we don't have to see the constant gamesmanship going on. If they are "injured" then they can't play. Move on. If they aren't fit enough to complete the match, then move on.

Additionally, they time rule needs to be enforced violently, and without prejudice.

Agree completely.
 
I surely feel sympathy towards this solution against fake injury time-outs.
Problem is, the umpires are such pussies already as they don't even enforce the simple time violation code - I wonder if they'd have the guts to indeed enforce this.

The rule would be set up so that it is not in the Umpires hands. Take an injury timeout, no matter the reason, lose a game.
 
It can be solved simply. If you take an injury timeout, you lose a game. Period. If it is on your serve, you lose your serve and are down a break. It is not your opponents fault that you got injured, and you are definitely affecting the flow of the game by taking the timeout. If you TRULY ARE injured, then it is worth losing a game to get recovered.
Is this for all medicals? What if a player rolls an ankle in a final set tiebreak? Now instead of being able to tape an obvious injury and try to tough out the tiebreak, they lose the match?

I don't think that's the right solution.
 
Of course not...

how could they? carring around 400gm wood 65sqin tallywhackers, wearing canvas pimplesoles and not having 2 game breaks for fresh beverages and ball boys with towels...

oldies are pansies.. new kids are what rules and SUresh is "da man"...

ps: are you that stupid?

Gorecki, you can't be that stupid.. (to ask a question like that :shock:)

:D :D :D
 
LOL

How many medical timeouts did Federer take during that time? The number zero comes to mind...

Federer and Nadal are pretty good examples of guys that play through anything, whether they are winning or losing. They're not guys who abuse rules like this.

Didn't Federer get treatment for his back in TMC against Murray (or was it during a changeover?)

And he barely ever 'whined' about this back injury of his (which happens to be a chronic condition which he's been dealing with throughout his career, btw).

Very true. He even had that in 2003 wimbledon.
 
It's tough to legislate something like this, so it's clear that this rule needs to be scrapped.

I think it needs to go back to the old way, and if you're coming on to the court unprepared - well, you've got to forfeit the match.

I can't see how good it is for the sport when players can actually turn matches based on abusing a technicality.

If you've got a blister, sore back, can't breath - then you're done, you've lost. Your opponent has outlasted you.
 
It's tough to legislate something like this, so it's clear that this rule needs to be scrapped.

I think it needs to go back to the old way, and if you're coming on to the court unprepared - well, you've got to forfeit the match.

I can't see how good it is for the sport when players can actually turn matches based on abusing a technicality.

If you've got a blister, sore back, can't breath - then you're done, you've lost. Your opponent has outlasted you.
^ Sounds good to me.
Really - I'd be all for that.

However...
I find myself wondering if there is another sport - a team or individual sport - in which the players do not have a right to be treated for an injury and continue playing.
Can anyone think of any?

What is the rule about this in golf?
 
Some of you are taking it too far.The best option is to have at most 2 medical timeouts in 3 out of 5 matches and one in a best out of 3.That way you are allowing the player to take a quick time out to sort his problem but not enough to delay play.And with so few medical timeouts per match players will think twice about using and will only go for it when it is something serious.

Let's say you have cramps or something like that,something minor which can affect play but isn't a major injury(with a major injury you cannot play anymore).You play with them and your level drops because of them because you cannot move properly.If you have no medical timeout you will probably lose because you are at an obvious physical disadvantage.But if you use that medical timeout you can get some help for your problem and come back with a fighting chance.With no medical timeouts there would be more retirements because if you get something minor and you have to play with it for 1-2 hours untreated there is a chance it will get worse,so many more players would rather throw in the towel than risk more damage to their body.

The problem is that the current regulations allow players to abuse this rule.Cut the timeouts allowed and the problem solves itself out.
 
Some of you are taking it too far.The best option is to have at most 2 medical timeouts in 3 out of 5 matches and one in a best out of 3.That way you are allowing the player to take a quick time out to sort his problem but not enough to delay play.And with so few medical timeouts per match players will think twice about using and will only go for it when it is something serious.

I suggested this earlier.

I don't think they should be outlawed, but players do use them quite liberally. The rule should be 1 injury timeout per 3 set match, and 2 allowed per 5 set match. If you go over, you default the match.

I agree wholeheartedly. Good post as always namelessone.
 
Somehow recalled how Federer took an injury timeout to clip his nails in AO-2008. It was the match vs Tipsarevic, and Tisarevic was winning. Good old Roger!
 
Somehow recalled how Federer took an injury timeout to clip his nails in AO-2008. It was the match vs Tipsarevic, and Tisarevic was winning. Good old Roger!

Tipsarevic is a jerk. He retired over 6 times in the last 2 years and he takes timeouts all the time.

Tipsarevic has nothing to complain about.
 
He didn't. I do. If somebody makes a statement like Federer did "get out of here", he has absolutely no right to abuse the injury timeout rules by clipping his nails during a match.

BTW Federer took 3 injury timeouts in his match vs Murray in the final championship.
 
JOHN MCENROE CALLS INJURY TIMEOUTS A TOUR EPIDEMIC
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They are all right, although I did feel for Del Potro because he was just tired from the tournament he played before Montreal. Maybe I am wrong, but he is not the type of player that has done this before or is likely to repeat it. He was just tired because he reached 2 finals in a row which he probably did not expect when he put them both in his schedule.
However, I think Mcenroe is right to call it a epidemic, it should not be allowed anymore. If you are tired bad luck you lose, if you have an injury same thing. The way Djokovic or Jankovic are constantly calling for treatment is very annoying. Either start charging them for it or change the rule. I suggest either one or both of these options:

1) The a player can only get treatment in the breaks that already exist between the games and that means no extra time.

2) A player can choose to get some extra time, but lose one or two games. I think this way it would be less interresting to fake an injury.
 
There's nothing wrong with the injury time out system...
The game cannot continue without the players, the game is faster and more physical than ever before, so an injury time out shouldn't be a big deal...
If the ATP really wanted to do something about this, they'd shorten the season.. But NNNNOOOO!!!!!
Players play up to 25 tournaments a year, plus they do training and they are constantly travelling, so you have the stresses of jet lag to contend with...
If you ask me, the "injury timeout" pandemic that McEnroe calls it is only one symptom of a greater problem.
THE SEASON IS TOO LONG. Davis Cup is played EVERY YEAR.
It's time the players started saying NO and started playing the schedule they feel is best for the body, with a decent rest every year..
At the moment the only player who does this within the confines of the ATP's rules is Federer, which is no wonder since he's been successful for so long...
 
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