Instinct is to watch your defensive lob (instead of recovering to center position)

[TimeToPlaySets]

Opponent pulls you out wide. You're now out of position.

You counter with a moonball or 3/4 topspin lob style ball.
You take off the pace since you need time to recover.
(You do not try to fire back a low attack ball, since you can't chase down a returned ball)

Now, you need to recover to the middle, particularly if your lob return was deep.
This way, you're in position to attack a short ball.

Instead you hit the ball and stop and just stare at your high lob, rooting for it to land in.
This is more likely to happen as you tire out. (This is the brain preserving energy, which is very logical)

If it's in, and he hits it back, you're now out of position!

How did you get yourself to hit the ball, and run back to center instead of watching it?
I am going to spend an entire hour lesson on just practicing hitting and running back to center.

 

[Bender]

The instinct after every shot is to marvel at the miracle ball you just hit, then promptly end up scrambling when your alleged pusher opponent returns that ball and you get caught with your pants down.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Opponent pulls you out wide. You're now out of position.

You counter with a moonball or 3/4 topspin lob style ball.
(You do not try to fire back a low attack ball, since you can't chase down a returned ball)

Now, you need to recover to the middle, particularly if your lob return was deep.
This way, you're in position to attack a short ball.
Instead you hit the ball and stop and stare at your high lob, rooting for it to land in.
(This is the brain preserving energy, which is very logical)
If it's in, and he hits it back, you're now out of position!

I am going to spend an entire hour lesson on just practicing hitting and running back to center.
How did you get yourself to hit the ball, and run back to center instead of watching it?

To break someone of this habit, keep your vision locked on the area of contact and don't lift your head up to watch the trajectory. Once you start moving, then look at where the ball went.

Actually, the same advice applies to every shot, not just defensive lobs. Watch Federer: he's the poster child for focus on contact point.

I am bad at this; only more practice will fix it.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Yea, keeping head down solves many issues.
(Framing, launching it long, stopping and watching the ball flight)

The other key is not to overcompensate by incorporating the recovery into the swing itself.
Then you don't finish the swing. Swing, plant, recover and don't look.

I will try this tomorrow.
I think an hour straight will start to cure this habit

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

The other key is not to overcompensate by incorporating the recovery into the swing itself.
Then you don't finish the swing. Swing, plant, recover and don't look.
/QUOTE]

Actually, the plant and recovery are not separate actions.

Let's say you're moving to your left to hit a FH out wide. You reach it, hit the shot, plant with your left, and maybe take another right and another left stride before stopping, turn your left foot inward, and reverse direction. This is assuming you hit with a relatively neutral stance, not an open one.

A high-level player would hit the shot and as they are coming down, they would rotate their left foot inward so that when they landed, they'd immediately push off of their left foot back towards the middle.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Right, but they are not recovering during the shot itself.
Like stopping the swing and starting to run back.
You still need to follow through.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Right, but they are not recovering during the shot itself.
Like stopping the swing and starting to run back.
You still need to follow through.

Agreed.

The more advanced method I outlined is better with a neutral stance because you can push off immediately upon landing. I think recovery would be more difficult with an open stance.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Again did this for a half hour today.
I am remembering to recover much better after just one day.

 

[LeeD]

Stuff like that, you should have learned in grade school.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Along with 99% of rec players who also watch the ball instead of recovering

 

[Doc Hollidae]

Along with 99% of rec players who also watch the ball instead of recovering

I concentrate more on recovering that watch the ball, because typically I can "feel" where the ball is going once it leaves my racket, so I don't need to actually watch it go in.

Once you've gotten enough reps and played enough tennis, you should be able to tell if a ball is going to go in or out after contact to a certain extent as well. Not saying you will always be 100% correct, but you usually have an idea where the ball is going to land within a foot or so margin of error.

 

[LeeD]

Didn't you play 4 square, dodge ball, tag, or any of that stuff in grade school?
ALWAYS start a recovery after anything you do or was done to you, never just stop and stand there.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Good point. This is a brand new shot for me. Most 3.5 players just spazz and trying to hit a winner DTL from 10 feet outside the baseline.
Over time, you're right, I will not need visual confirmation, once I've hit the shot 100's of times.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Didn't you play 4 square, dodge ball, tag, or any of that stuff in grade school?
ALWAYS start a recovery after anything you do or was done to you, never just stop and stand there.

Have YOU ever played the idiotic examples you try to come up with?

Dodge ball? You throw it and watch to see if you hit the guy.
Where the hell are you even recovering to?

Tag? Yea, you touch the guy and then run away from him.
What the hell does that have to do with the instinct to see if your lob lands in?

Listen to me, your examples are beyond idiotic and ALWAYS totally irrelevant.
Can you PLEASE shut up? Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up.

 

[Raul_SJ]

Along with 99% of rec players who also watch the ball instead of recovering

Not on the defensive lob when stretched wide.
The instinct when stretched wide with a defensive lob is to recover. Nothing makes me run harder. It is automatic for everyone. The whole court is wide open!!

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Wrong. The instinct is to stop moving and see if your shot is good.
If instinct was to recover, you would not have coaches and videos telling people to recover. DUH.
Notice how he does not mention anything about remembering to blink and breathe.

 

[LeeD]

Have YOU ever played the idiotic examples you try to come up with?

Dodge ball? You throw it and watch to see if you hit the guy.
Where the hell are you even recovering to?

Tag? Yea, you touch the guy and then run away from him.
What the hell does that have to do with the instinct to see if your lob lands in?

Listen to me, your examples are beyond idiotic and ALWAYS totally irrelevant.
Can you PLEASE shut up? Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up.

Which is why I always question your self proclaimed title of "athlete".
I think you sat around during PE and ate lunch.
And during lunch break at school, you oogled the hot girls (which I wish I did instead of pretending to be a jock), or sneaked away from the yard to smoke a cigarette.

 

[Raul_SJ]

Wrong. The instinct is to stop moving and see if your shot is good.
If instinct was to recover, you would not have coaches and videos telling people to recover. DUH.
Notice how he does not mention anything about remembering to blink and breathe.

On those shots, perhaps. Original post was about being pulled wide.

The whole court is wide open. It is obvious to see that the court is wide open. No greater incentive to move than that.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

LOL, incentive is hardly the same as execution.
There is a lot of incentive not to spend every last penny you earn and save for retirement.
There is a lot of incentive to eat broccoli instead of pizza.
Yet, the majority do not do either.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I decided to see watch some 4.5 clips and see how quickly I can see an example of someone standing and watching their defensive lob.
Took all of 21 seconds.

 

[LeeD]

When you hit a winner, you can walk off and say hi to the hotties watching you.
When you're running to retrieve a wide shot, you recover towards center of intersect.
But, when you attempt a winner, it's best not to walk off the court and celibrate, while your opponent chases down your ball and get's it back into your vacant court.
If you don't know the difference, you'd better learn the difference.

 

[Doc Hollidae]

Wrong. The instinct is to stop moving and see if your shot is good.
If instinct was to recover, you would not have coaches and videos telling people to recover. DUH.
Notice how he does not mention anything about remembering to blink and breathe.

It seems like you are the only one having these issues, then you call the rest of us idiots. Maybe part of your issues are you are going to an instructor that isn't really instructing you on anything and just taking your money. From the amount of posts you make and issues you have, you sound like a gold mine for a tennis instructor.

The majority of your posts are things that are pretty basic and sometimes just common sense. Paying someone to tell you to make a unit turn before each ball does not require a coach or paying someone with any tennis knowledge for a lesson. It's your lack of self discipline that is the issue. If you know the technique and still don't execute it, that's on you, not the coach. Hell, you could even say it out loud yourself if remembering to turn is such an issue. You could do the same thing for recovering. You really seem to focus on random aspects of the game and are so close minded on your views that improvement seems like it will be impossible for you. Try to focus less 3.5 tennis specifically and more on how to play the game correctly. There's plenty of knowledgeable posters here from all different levels that have useful tidbits and have tried to help you.

Also the video above has nothing to do about watching your shots, it about the proper footwork on how to recover faster. With the footwork he is teaching you, he is utilizing the momentum of the follow through into recovery vs. finishing the follow through, stopping, then starting to make the recovery.

 

[Doc Hollidae]

I decided to see watch some 4.5 clips and see how quickly I can see an example of someone standing and watching their defensive lob.
Took all of 21 seconds.

The shot at 21 seconds isn't a defensive lob, its a backhand slice that floated, he wasn't pulled wide or out of position, and it didn't require recovering to the middle. Where he is standing is typical for a baseliner with a big forehand. Which is exactly the type of player he is. How many backhands does he hit in that video?

 

[LeeD]

How can that be interpreted to be a defensive lob?
And Orange is standing in the perfect position to return any possible return from his opponent...so he doesn't need to move after hitting a defensive high slice backhand.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I'm getting a great value to get drills and hitting partner. I've improved more in the last month than most people do in years. You're right, it is a gold mine. My gold mine.

It's funny how TT consistently bashes people who get lessons and tries to play it like they're getting ripped off this is a loser mindset to justify their own cheap inability to pay for lessons and get better that's why all they do is watch stupid videos and stay at the same level for decades

You miss the point of the video. Slice it lob, forest meet trees. HE DOESN'T RECOVER. are you blind? Look at the next shot. He runs across the court for it.

I'm hardly the only one with this issue. It's very common.

 

[Doc Hollidae]

I'm getting a great value to get drills and hitting partner. I've improved more in the last month than most people do in years. You're right, it is a gold mine. My gold mine.

It's funny how TT consistently bashes people who get lessons and tries to play it like they're getting ripped off this is a loser mindset to justify their own cheap inability to pay for lessons and get better that's why all they do is watch stupid videos and stay at the same level for decades

You miss the point of the video. Slice it lob, forest meet trees. HE DOESN'T RECOVER. are you blind? Look at the next shot. He runs across the court for it.

I'm hardly the only one with this issue. It's very common.

The only blind one is you...

 

[LeeD]

The only blind one is you...

He doesn't recover because the's standing in the correct position already. To cover his backhand, and to cover center of intersect.
His opponent hit's a backhand DTL, not an easy shot, and lower percentage than backhand CC, so he runs over to cover it. You CANNOT always be standing in the perfect position to cover EVERY single shot your opponent makes. Sometimes, you gotta run, even Fed, even Milos, even DJoker.

 

[J011yroger]

Ummm, where I come if you throw a dodgeball and stand there watching to see if you hit the guy someone else usually drills you with a ball.

J

 

[LeeD]

Only if you actually PLAYED dodgeball.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I concentrate more on recovering that watch the ball, because typically I can "feel" where the ball is going once it leaves my racket, so I don't need to actually watch it go in.

Once you've gotten enough reps and played enough tennis, you should be able to tell if a ball is going to go in or out after contact to a certain extent as well. Not saying you will always be 100% correct, but you usually have an idea where the ball is going to land within a foot or so margin of error.

I just try to assume my shot is going in until proven otherwise. Sometimes, I'm surprised the ball went in but at least I'm ready for the response.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Have YOU ever played the idiotic examples you try to come up with?

@LeeD also mentioned 4 Square: if you have to move to hit and are off-balance, you've left yourself open somewhere else in your square.

Dodge ball? You throw it and watch to see if you hit the guy.
Where the hell are you even recovering to?

You've obviously never played Dodge Ball with more than one ball. Typically the attacking team controls both balls and will have one in the middle section and one at the end so they can attack one player simultaneously. If you somehow get control of one ball and try and hit the other team, you'd better not stand around or else you're going to get hit from behind.

 

[LeeD]

Love dodgeball, or Euro handball.
Low COE, wide stance, anticipation, quick first step, reaction, interest, recognition of trends, knowing tendencies of the person with the ball, knowing who to hide near, all good stuff.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Love dodgeball, or Euro handball.
Low COE, wide stance, anticipation, quick first step, reaction, interest, recognition of trends, knowing tendencies of the person with the ball, knowing who to hide near, all good stuff.

One guy made a specialty of "hiding in plain sight" by standing in the corner next to the end zone. It was funny how long he was able to stay in the game.

 

[LeeD]

Always stand next to the fat dude who is going to be picked on.

 

[fundrazer]

Good point. This is a brand new shot for me. Most 3.5 players just spazz and trying to hit a winner DTL from 10 feet outside the baseline.
Over time, you're right, I will not need visual confirmation, once I've hit the shot 100's of times.

When you actually learn how to play a match you will come to understand that in some cases going for broke down the line is actually the smarter shot. If you can tell me why then I'll give you a cookie.

 

[VexlanderPrime]

I'm getting a great value to get drills and hitting partner. I've improved more in the last month than most people do in years. You're right, it is a gold mine. My gold mine.

It's funny how TT consistently bashes people who get lessons and tries to play it like they're getting ripped off this is a loser mindset to justify their own cheap inability to pay for lessons and get better that's why all they do is watch stupid videos and stay at the same level for decades

You miss the point of the video. Slice it lob, forest meet trees. HE DOESN'T RECOVER. are you blind? Look at the next shot. He runs across the court for it.

I'm hardly the only one with this issue. It's very common.

No one is bashing you because u take lessons or are trying to improve. TTW makes fun of you bc you self rated 3.5 and put 3.5 exclusions on your posts despite never playing any competitive tennis. Even bigger, you constantly make absurd statements about "all 3.5 scrubs do XYZ" followed by some projected description of something you are struggling with. Lastly, when people make posts trying to help you or explaining basic freaking things like the the unit turn or how to use your offhand appropriately, you act like you know better, when again, the entire forum knows you don't. You made a post about under hand serving viability for god sakes... no one is fooled.

That's why u get made fun of. Not your coach. But when you talk about spending a coached lesson drilling moving around the court with your offhand appropriately holding the racket throat...yah, I don't know what u expected to get for replies.

I mean FFS @LeeD , a guy who has played 5x more tennis in his life than you, is explainly a pretty basic and obvious reason why a guy is favoring towards his BH side... and your trying to argue with him.

 

[Mark Asher]

I don't really agree that instinct is watching your lob. I have always scrambled to get back in position. Maybe that's because when I was playing a lot as a teen I knew that position was important and I had the speed and energy of a teenager. Hit the lob and take a step or two back towards the middle, and then watch while you side-step towards the middle.

I think I was always more likely to watch a topspin offensive lob, since that's either a win or lose shot. You hit it right, it's a winner. Too shallow, an easy overhead for your opponent. Too long, point over.

 

[PDJ]

Opponent pulls you out wide. You're now out of position.

You counter with a moonball or 3/4 topspin lob style ball.
You take off the pace since you need time to recover.
(You do not try to fire back a low attack ball, since you can't chase down a returned ball)

Now, you need to recover to the middle, particularly if your lob return was deep.
This way, you're in position to attack a short ball.

Instead you hit the ball and stop and just stare at your high lob, rooting for it to land in.
This is more likely to happen as you tire out. (This is the brain preserving energy, which is very logical)

If it's in, and he hits it back, you're now out of position!

How did you get yourself to hit the ball, and run back to center instead of watching it?
I am going to spend an entire hour lesson on just practicing hitting and running back to center.

I instinctively move to the centre after I hit a lob, or move in. Never thought about it before - but I have great faith in my lob, as arrogant as that sounds.

 

[Mark Asher]

Never thought about it before - but I have great faith in my lob, as arrogant as that sounds.

Yeah, I think after you have played a lot you have a feel for the ball, a feel for how hard to hit it to place it where you want it to land. I feel like I can hit a lob to within a couple of feet of the baseline. At some subconscious level our brains do the calculations. It's like hitting a turnaround jumper in basketball. You don't think about it. You just do it.

 

[revolutiontenniz]

It's just you man. I always recover after my shot.

 

[atp2015]

The shot at 21 seconds isn't a defensive lob, its a backhand slice that floated, he wasn't pulled wide or out of position, and it didn't require recovering to the middle. Where he is standing is typical for a baseliner with a big forehand. Which is exactly the type of player he is. How many backhands does he hit in that video?

Agree with you. He was a bit slow to get back to ready position , but he didn't have to recover to the middle of the court. Deep to backhand, he remains in the ad side. The high percentage for opponent is back to where he is. Dtl will expose the opponent out of position and that's exactly what happened.

 

[Gazelle]

But how will the OP recover to the middle, without tripping? Or does he pay his coach to tie his shoes too?

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

It's just you man. I always recover after my shot.

You're also reading a tennis forum.
Not exactly typical.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

But how will the OP recover to the middle, without tripping? Or does he pay his coach to tie his shoes too?

Only on this forum of self-imposed mediocrity are people who drill with daily lessons by hiring a coach made fun of.

How does it feel playing at the same level for 30 years ?
Time for a new racket! Maybe change your string gauge, that will solve all your issues!

I'm getting better every day. Are you?

 

[Gazelle]

Only on this forum of self-imposed mediocrity are people who drill with daily lessons by hiring a coach made fun of.

How does it feel playing at the same level for 30 years ?
Time for a new racket! Maybe change your string gauge, that will solve all your issues!

I'm getting better every day. Are you?

I applaud you on learning how to turn your shoulders.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Agree with you. He was a bit slow to get back to ready position , but he didn't have to recover to the middle of the court. Deep to backhand, he remains in the ad side. The high percentage for opponent is back to where he is. Dtl will expose the opponent out of position and that's exactly what happened.

He's totally flat footed and just staring at his ball.
Racket hangs down at his side.
I believe his hand is almost in his pocket.
Maybe it's time to grab some mid-point peanuts?

Yup, great form you guys promote!

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I applaud you on learning how to turn your shoulders.

It's called getting better.
Something you probably know nothing about.
I applaud you for never getting any better after you were of legal voting age.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

You made a post about under hand serving viability for god sakes... no one is fooled.

And the fact that 3.5 spazz have no idea how to hit a short ball, makes it a worthy discussion.
The simple fact is that you have NO IDEA if an underhanded serve will be more effective than a typical 3.5 serve routine.
A 3.5's 2nd serve is often no better than an underhanded serve, but you also get lots of double faults.
To assume it is not shows you are ignorant and inflexible in your thinking.

 

[johnnyb]

It's just you man. I always recover after my shot.

It's more common than you think. I saw Simona Halep stop and watching the ball several times when she was defeated by Jelena Ostapenko in Roland Garros final.

 

[atp2015]

He's totally flat footed and just staring at his ball.
Racket hangs down at his side.
I believe his hand is almost in his pocket.
Maybe it's time to grab some mid-point peanuts?

Yup, great form you guys promote!

Agree with you, he wasn't doing enough to get ready for the next ball. My point was that he should have stayed where he was and not slide to the middle of the court (and he did the right thing by staying in ad). Recovery is not to the middle of the court, but to the middle of the return angle. And he was already at the ideal recovery position (sure, not the ideal recovery stance) by virtue of hitting deep to the ad of his opponent.