Interesting to watch the full match

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
This is where the beast was born.

Fascinating how little respect Courier and the other commentators pay Djokovic early in this match. They make him sound like a scrub.They change their tune radically by the end of the first set.

 
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MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Well this Djokovic looks indeed like a scrub compared to today's well oiled machine version of Djokovic that's Goatovic. ;)
Nah he was definitely more entertaining to watch then. Maybe he perfected his game "too much" (obviously it's much more effective now) but the whole just looking like he's staying in the point and letting guys flub easy balls they should put away isn't nearly as entertaining as he used to be.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Fascinating how little respect Courier and the other commentators pay Djokovic early in this match. They make him sound like a scrub.
Why would they have much respect for a guy who had won 7 career titles up to that point? And 4 of those 7 titles were 250's. They're supposed to have a crystal ball and know he'd eventually win 20 slams? :unsure:
 

weakera

G.O.A.T.
Why would they have much respect for a guy who had won 7 career titles up to that point? And 4 of those 7 titles were 250's. They're supposed to have a crystal ball and know he'd eventually win 20 slams? :unsure:
Someone had a crystal ball in 2005:

He decided to pay a quick visit to Court 18, where Argentine player Juan Monaco — his nephew’s habitual sparring partner and friend — was playing against a player he had never seen before.
“Who’s that kid?,” Toni asked.
“He’s 18 years old and he’s 100 and a bit in the world,” came the answer.
“What’s his name?” Toni responded.
“Novak Djokovic.”
Toni Nadal burned the name into his memory. After watching the match for a few minutes he continued his walk to the locker room, where Nadal, who was just a year older than the kid who had just stunned him with his game, was waiting. When they met, Toni Nadal made a famous statement that would prove prophetic: “Rafael, we have a problem. I’ve just seen a really good kid,” said Toni.


:cool::whistle:
 
IMO, this whole tournament was Novak's second best AO run, right after 2011. I think Djokovic was beating Fed there anyway even if he didn't have mono.

He really caught fire for this Slam.
What do you mean by the second best run as clearly this is barely a top 10 AO version of Djokovic. Maybe just better than 2007, 2009, 2010 and Istominovic but that's about it. ;)
 

Noleberic123

G.O.A.T.
IMO, this whole tournament was Novak's second best AO run, right after 2011. I think Djokovic was beating Fed there anyway even if he didn't have mono.

He really caught fire for this Slam.
Fourth best actually.

1. 2019
2. 2016
3. 2011
4. 2008
5. 2013
6. 2012
7. 2021
8. 2015
9. 2020
 

guga_fan

Semi-Pro
Djokovic's return really stands out to rewatching this match. I'm pretty sure he doesn't return at this level anymore.
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
Fourth best actually.

1. 2019
2. 2016
3. 2011
4. 2008
5. 2013
6. 2012
7. 2021
8. 2015
9. 2020
Yeah, there's not really a problem with any of the top 4 being placed at number 1. 2016, however, takes a hit because of the Simon match (and 2019 takes a slightly smaller hit due to the Medvedev and Shapovalov matches). Sure, it was an early round so it doesn't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things, but it's a tiebreaker I think, especially when 2008 and 2011 were rock solid in the later rounds without going through many early round agonies (aside from a hiccup in 2011's case). You can ignore it and I won't have a problem with that, but it's what ultimately drops it just a bit below 2011 and 2008 for me.
 

Kralingen

Legend
This performance is why the peak Djokovic vs peak Federer comparisons always being so one-sidedly Federer make me laugh. 08 Federer was still great, just watch the video (btw. I’ve had mono before and the idea that any athlete could play BO5 matches with a serious case of mono is a bald faced lie)

At the very least, it’s going to be a war anywhere. I immediately feel like anyone making confident predictions between the two in their 20s (outside of WB) is either being dishonest or heavily biased.
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
btw. I’ve had mono before and the idea that any athlete could play BO5 matches with a serious case of mono is a bald faced lie
Yeah, that's probably it. It wasn't a very serious case of mono, but I do think he still had it. Novak was too good here for Fed even allowing for that handicap, as I noted. I've had a friend who had mono and it wasn't especially bad in his case. He got over it after about a week(?) or so.

Now Soderling and Ancic really got the short end of the stick.
 

Noleberic123

G.O.A.T.
Yeah, there's not really a problem with any of the top 4 being placed at number 1. 2016, however, takes a hit because of the Simon match (and 2019 takes a slightly smaller hit due to the Medvedev and Shapovalov matches). Sure, it was an early round so it doesn't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things, but it's a tiebreaker I think, especially when 2008 and 2011 were rock solid in the later rounds without going through many early round agonies (aside from a hiccup in 2011's case). You can ignore it and I won't have a problem with that, but it's what ultimately drops it just a bit below 2011 and 2008 for me.
Do you think 2011 or 2008 Federer was better?
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
This performance is why the peak Djokovic vs peak Federer comparisons always being so one-sidedly Federer make me laugh. 08 Federer was still great, just watch the video (btw. I’ve had mono before and the idea that any athlete could play BO5 matches with a serious case of mono is a bald faced lie)

At the very least, it’s going to be a war anywhere. I immediately feel like anyone making confident predictions between the two in their 20s (outside of WB) is either being dishonest or heavily biased.
Totally agree. You don't make a GS SF with mono!
 
This performance is why the peak Djokovic vs peak Federer comparisons always being so one-sidedly Federer make me laugh. 08 Federer was still great, just watch the video (btw. I’ve had mono before and the idea that any athlete could play BO5 matches with a serious case of mono is a bald faced lie)

At the very least, it’s going to be a war anywhere. I immediately feel like anyone making confident predictions between the two in their 20s (outside of WB) is either being dishonest or heavily biased.
This Federer couldn't handle this budget version of Djokovic. Now imagine this younger Fed against the real thing. ;)
 

Kralingen

Legend
Yeah, that's probably it. It wasn't a very serious case of mono, but I do think he still had it. Novak was too good here for Fed even allowing for that handicap, as I noted. I've had a friend who had mono and it wasn't especially bad in his case. He got over it after about a week(?) or so.

Now Soderling and Ancic really got the short end of the stick.
Yeah, and don’t take my statement as trying to discount what Federer went through or call him a liar. What really caused this decline in form was the missed training blocks (i.e. no way do I believe he gets bagelled at FO 2008 if he was more prepared).

But all I ever hear reading old threads is about how mono this mono that and so 2008 AO isn’t a fair comparison of their prime selves. That’s dead wrong imo. The fact is no player who was truly dealing with a serious illness during a major would wait until May to disclose it as Federer did. If you had an actually serious case of mono you wouldn’t enter the tournament, and you certainly wouldn’t play elite tennis in a Bo5 format.
 

Biotic

Hall of Fame
Yeah, there's not really a problem with any of the top 4 being placed at number 1. 2016, however, takes a hit because of the Simon match (and 2019 takes a slightly smaller hit due to the Medvedev and Shapovalov matches). Sure, it was an early round so it doesn't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things, but it's a tiebreaker I think, especially when 2008 and 2011 were rock solid in the later rounds without going through many early round agonies (aside from a hiccup in 2011's case). You can ignore it and I won't have a problem with that, but it's what ultimately drops it just a bit below 2011 and 2008 for me.
2016 Simon is no big deal if you know that sleep deprived Djokovic pulled a Safin on the eve of the match. He was that confident, borderline foolish, it seems.

2019 is harder to gauge being slightly post prime, yet it seemed that he was fully in control throughout the tournament. He bageled Shapo in the 4th, tells you all you need to know about that set he lost. Medvedev was very good, and pushed him quite a bit.

2011, Nuff said.

2008 was a strong showing obviously, but I'd put it at the 4th, simply because he was still inexperienced. Lets say that I'd trust 2013 Djokovic to get the job done in 2008, and wouldn't be so sure about 2008 getting it done in 2013, if that makes sense.
 

Kralingen

Legend
This Federer couldn't handle this budget version of Djokovic. Now imagine this younger Fed against the real thing. ;)
Lol I mean that’s very clearly a troll argument, but one area that I’ve always felt is unfair to Djokovic is the corollary. I.e. “7th best Federer nearly beat best Djokovic what it tells us” when best Federer never played 6th or 7th best Djokovic. I mean USO 2007, the last of “peak Fed” as many like to call it, was a decently close match that was in straights moreso to Djokovic’s lack of experience and gamesmanship in big moments than Federer GOATing. Peak Fed was unbelievable no doubt but peak to peak no one is winning anything easily.

Anyone who tells you confidently Federer would have twice the majors Djokovic does if they were the same age, for example, is a sunshine pumper and not to be taken seriously. What’s sad is I’ve seen many smart posters claim this in old threads…
 

tudwell

Legend
This performance is why the peak Djokovic vs peak Federer comparisons always being so one-sidedly Federer make me laugh. 08 Federer was still great, just watch the video (btw. I’ve had mono before and the idea that any athlete could play BO5 matches with a serious case of mono is a bald faced lie)

At the very least, it’s going to be a war anywhere. I immediately feel like anyone making confident predictions between the two in their 20s (outside of WB) is either being dishonest or heavily biased.
Absolutely. I was just thinking about their head-to-head in another thread: From 2008 to 2012, they went 5-4 to Djokovic in slam meetings. And in two of those wins, Novak had to save match points! Even if you want to discount pre-2011 Novak, Fed went 2-3 (with match points for a third win) against peak Nole before the racquet change. I think if Fed were the same age as Novak they would probably split matches pretty evenly across the four majors.
 

Kralingen

Legend
Absolutely. I was just thinking about their head-to-head in another thread: From 2008 to 2012, they went 5-4 to Djokovic in slam meetings. And in two of those wins, Novak had to save match points! Even if you want to discount pre-2011 Novak, Fed went 2-3 (with match points for a third win) against peak Nole before the racquet change. I think if Fed were the same age as Novak they would probably split matches pretty evenly across the four majors.
The obvious argument is “well if less prime Federer could do this well against peak Djokovic imagine Peak Federer, he would destroy him” which I don’t buy as sound logic for quite a few reasons as listed above. I doubt a single Slam match would be anything less than fiercely competitive and coming down to first serve % and 5-6 big points here and there. Wimbledon probably the exception, I favor Federer more clearly there.
 

tudwell

Legend
The obvious argument is “well if less prime Federer could do this well against peak Djokovic imagine Peak Federer, he would destroy him” which I don’t buy as sound logic for quite a few reasons as listed above. I doubt a single Slam match would be anything less than fiercely competitive and coming down to first serve % and 5-6 big points here and there. Wimbledon probably the exception, I favor Federer more clearly there.
Yeah, that's a dumb extrapolation to make, for the most part. And pre-peak Novak was super-competitive with prime Fed as well, so that argument can cut the other way just as easily. And I'd definitely give Novak the edge at the Australian – probably even more than Fed at Wimbledon. :oops: Though maybe that's just the Nole Fam propaganda getting to me.
 

InsideOut900

Hall of Fame
This is where the beast was born.

Fascinating how little respect Courier and the other commentators pay Djokovic early in this match. They make him sound like a scrub.They change their tune radically by the end of the first set.

Rasheed was so cringe to watch in the commentary box. He had a masterclass unfolding in front of him and his only concern was Federer not being as good as last year.
 

bnjkn

Semi-Pro
IMO, this whole tournament was Novak's second best AO run, right after 2011. I think Djokovic was beating Fed there anyway even if he didn't have mono.

He really caught fire for this Slam.
He was beating Fed there anyway. Fed actually wasn't that bad, I know he had the weird Tipsarevic match, but I can't actually point to what he was doing wrong, looks pretty much like late 2007 Fed to me.
 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
Interesting how the commentators here say Djokovic was in control of the first two sets of the '07 USO final, but Federer "used his experience" to get through and win the match.

Compare and contrast with the narrative now of NextGen being choking mugs who hand sets and matches to Djokovic for free
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Interesting how the commentators here say Djokovic was in control of the first two sets of the '07 USO final, but Federer "used his experience" to get through and win the match.

Compare and contrast with the narrative now of NextGen being choking mugs who hand sets and matches to Djokovic for free
Because Djokovic didn't crap himself at the sight of a break point every time for 5 years with no improvement, as many of this gen do.
 

bnjkn

Semi-Pro
Interesting how the commentators here say Djokovic was in control of the first two sets of the '07 USO final, but Federer "used his experience" to get through and win the match.

Compare and contrast with the narrative now of NextGen being choking mugs who hand sets and matches to Djokovic for free
What they said is true imo. Djokovic could have won the 07 USO. With more experience he would have won that match. It was a very close match and I thought Djokovic played better, more aggressive, than Fed. Djokovic was the same level as Federer on hardcourts by then.
 
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