Intermountain (?) new rule: home team forfeits matches if courts have Pickleball lines

[timmbuck2]

5.02A Match(es) Played on Unapproved Courts. If a home team is unable to provide the minimum number of required courts (See 4.02) without pickleball lines, the visiting team may refuse to play on the unapproved court(s) and claim a win by default for the impacted line(s). If the players agree to play on an unapproved court, the points played will stand.

Interesting...the courts I have played on locally don't have these lines...I looked at some pics online though and I can definitely see how confusing it can be! What do clubs do to make temp lines? There are gonna prob be some heated exchanges this season.....

Thoughts? Is this Nationwide?

 

[Nadal>>>>>Federer]

Good rule. Pickleball has its place but not on tennis courts...

 

[taylor15]

Our county is adding pickle ball lines to all the courts. I don’t care as much as how they crank the nets as low as they can and don’t fix them. That’s frustrating

 

[optic yellow]

Pickleball courts should exist separately from tennis courts.

 

[OnTheLine]

I like this rule! Pickleball lines do not bother me when playing singles. However in doubles they cause me problems. If I am in the middle of a point and near the Pickleball baseline (?) which is about a foot or two inside the singles sideline ... I have several times thought I was in the alley ... let a ball go that then lands well in. Look down and I am on the dang pickle line.

I agree that USTA should require courts to be properly lined for tennis. Give the visiting team the option of not playing on a mangled court.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I hate it as it does make split second line calling decisions difficult even with different colored lines. The brain doesn’t always register Color as fast as it registers shapes and lines.

I’d be strongly in agreement with this kind of rule. Tennis leagues should not be played on multi purpose courts.

 

[ChaelAZ]

5.02A Match(es) Played on Unapproved Courts. If a home team is unable to provide the minimum number of required courts (See 4.02) without pickleball lines, the visiting team may refuse to play on the unapproved court(s) and claim a win by default for the impacted line(s). If the players agree to play on an unapproved court, the points played will stand.

Interesting...the courts I have played on locally don't have these lines...I looked at some pics online though and I can definitely see how confusing it can be! What do clubs do to make temp lines? There are gonna prob be some heated exchanges this season.....

Thoughts? Is this Nationwide?

Considering most USTA players don't own courts and are subject to whatever the city or private club does to make money (many times sub funded and supported by the USTA, who also has a pickleball arm and promotes the shizzzz out of it), this seem ridiculous if true.

 

[zaskar1]

5.02A Match(es) Played on Unapproved Courts. If a home team is unable to provide the minimum number of required courts (See 4.02) without pickleball lines, the visiting team may refuse to play on the unapproved court(s) and claim a win by default for the impacted line(s). If the players agree to play on an unapproved court, the points played will stand.

Interesting...the courts I have played on locally don't have these lines...I looked at some pics online though and I can definitely see how confusing it can be! What do clubs do to make temp lines? There are gonna prob be some heated exchanges this season.....

Thoughts? Is this Nationwide?

sounds like a good thing, pickleball should be played on "pickleball courts" not tennis courts

not sure what they do here in norcal

but the public spaces are being converted to PB, at least around here.
in berkeley, there was an issue with "picklers" making too much noise after 8pm on the
coverted tennis courts near residences. i think they brought a lawsuit, as the city wouldnt do anything.

at our club, the "pickle people" are present, but on the other side of the parking lot
so there is no issue

when i play at the public courts, being next to the "picklers" is very annoying, especially when they
take out a blower, and blow the leaves on to our tennis court, or run on our court to retrieve a whiffle ball.

most "picklers" have etiquette, but on occassion you run across someone who has no clue.

z

 

[schmke]

Just wrote on my blog on the subject.

I'm curious about the impetus for this rule and how it is being received by players and facilities. It appears this (so far) is just in the Colorado district and not an Intermountain rule, so how big an issue are pickleball lines on tennis courts in Colorado? And what is the common layout of the pickleball courts?

Some images from my blog on different court layouts I've seen, some are better/worse than others.

This is annoying due to the closeness of the pickleball baseline and tennis service line. With a single pickleball court, it also isn't common as more can be fit on the tennis court.

If the no volley zone line aligns with the service line, this is probably not terribly obnoxious, but it only gets two pickleball courts placed and you can fit more.

This is downright obnoxious regardless of the color of the lines (IMHO).

 

[OnTheLine]

Just wrote on my blog on the subject.

I'm curious about the impetus for this rule and how it is being received by players and facilities. It appears this (so far) is just in the Colorado district and not an Intermountain rule, so how big an issue are pickleball lines on tennis courts in Colorado? And what is the common layout of the pickleball courts?

Some images from my blog on different court layouts I've seen, some are better/worse than others.

This is annoying due to the closeness of the pickleball baseline and tennis service line. With a single pickleball court, it also isn't common as more can be fit on the tennis court.

If the no volley zone line aligns with the service line, this is probably not terribly obnoxious, but it only gets two pickleball courts placed and you can fit more.

This is downright obnoxious regardless of the color of the lines (IMHO).

In plots 1 & 2 it is that sideline interfering with the singles/alley line that causes me the most trouble ... absolutely screws with my sense of positioning on the court.

 

[schmke]

In plots 1 & 2 it is that sideline interfering with the singles/alley line that causes me the most trouble ... absolutely screws with my sense of positioning on the court.

Yes, in 1 & 2, the PB side lines are parallel to the tennis singles side line and 3.5 feet inside of the tennis side line. So yeah, probably close enough to affect sense of positioning, particularly if the lines are the same color, but not close enough to mess up line calls

 

[schmke]

FWIW, it appears Southern has had a similar rule for a bit at least:

1.04D(6): Courts for Local League Play. “Home teams” will have the choice of court surface for which they wish to play their home matches. Court surface must be the same surface for all individual lines unless prior agreement between both captains. The use of tennis-related blended lines are permitted on courts used for local league matches. The use of other lines for another sport, such as Pickleball, are not permitted on courts used for local league matches.

 

[innoVAShaun]

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Wow, that scrambles the brain a bit.

 

[ATX Tennis]

Our local association considered that rule, but we have such a shortage of courts, we can’t really afford to be that picky.

 

[Chalkdust]

Look, I hate pickleball lines on a hard court, but limiting the population of courts available for league play is just stupid.
Would you rather be playing on a court with PB lines or not playing at all?

We tennis players are a fragile lot. Think of what basketball players have to play though in terms of noise and distraction.

 

[sureshs]

5.02A Match(es) Played on Unapproved Courts. If a home team is unable to provide the minimum number of required courts (See 4.02) without pickleball lines, the visiting team may refuse to play on the unapproved court(s) and claim a win by default for the impacted line(s). If the players agree to play on an unapproved court, the points played will stand.

Interesting...the courts I have played on locally don't have these lines...I looked at some pics online though and I can definitely see how confusing it can be! What do clubs do to make temp lines? There are gonna prob be some heated exchanges this season.....

Thoughts? Is this Nationwide?

This is a very important issue. It is one of the arguments being made by my club in meetings with the City to prevent Pickles from taking over our courts by dual-lining them. The USTA should demand this so that tennis courts can be protected.

 

[sureshs]

Would you rather be playing on a court with PB lines or not playing at all?

The first will quickly lead to the second.

 

[andfor]

Trying to fight the growing game and not coexist on the same courts could lead to complete conversion in some case of tennis courts to pickle ball courts.

One park in our area converted two courts to eight pickle ball courts. In this case the city has many tennis courts so losing two to pickle ball may be a good thing for them and the remaining tennis courts. Not all parks and facilities have this luxury.

I played tennis in my college gymnasiums and the floor had every line you could think of on it. Different color lines help. Are multiple line ugly? Yes, however the eye and brain will adjust.

 

[Purestriker]

Just wrote on my blog on the subject.

I'm curious about the impetus for this rule and how it is being received by players and facilities. It appears this (so far) is just in the Colorado district and not an Intermountain rule, so how big an issue are pickleball lines on tennis courts in Colorado? And what is the common layout of the pickleball courts?

Some images from my blog on different court layouts I've seen, some are better/worse than others.

This is annoying due to the closeness of the pickleball baseline and tennis service line. With a single pickleball court, it also isn't common as more can be fit on the tennis court.

If the no volley zone line aligns with the service line, this is probably not terribly obnoxious, but it only gets two pickleball courts placed and you can fit more.

This is downright obnoxious regardless of the color of the lines (IMHO).

That is awful. Thankfully we have separate courts for PB.

 

[Purestriker]

This is a very important issue. It is one of the arguments being made by my club in meetings with the City to prevent Pickles from taking over our courts by dual-lining them. The USTA should demand this so that tennis courts can be protected.

Down with the pickles!

 

[sureshs]

Down with the pickles!

I am not against Pickles. I am willing to have them be ball-persons (for free) in tennis matches.

 

[andfor]

I am not against Pickles. I am willing to have them be ball-persons (for free) in tennis matches.

Ball persons have to run too much, you have a better chance getting a snack from them. HAHA

 

[Purestriker]

I am not against Pickles. I am willing to have them be ball-persons (for free) in tennis matches.

I am against the pickles. They can really move (that's why they play the pickle), so I don't think the can be a ball person. Maybe they can go collect all the used balls.

 

[timmbuck2]

Wonder what clubs do for temporary lines? One place I play does advertise Pickleball open play and lessons a couple of nights a week, but there are no Pickleball lines on the courts...

 

[sureshs]

Wonder what clubs do for temporary lines? One place I play does advertise Pickleball open play and lessons a couple of nights a week, but there are no Pickleball lines on the courts...

We have 1 court dual-lined for Pickle

 

[optic yellow]

Wonder what clubs do for temporary lines? One place I play does advertise Pickleball open play and lessons a couple of nights a week, but there are no Pickleball lines on the courts...

Probably just tape.

 

[CosmosMpower]

Look, I hate pickleball lines on a hard court, but limiting the population of courts available for league play is just stupid.
Would you rather be playing on a court with PB lines or not playing at all?

We tennis players are a fragile lot. Think of what basketball players have to play though in terms of noise and distraction.

I’d rather pickleball be banned. They are using our courts not the other way around.

Your basketball analogy is stupid. There isn’t an alternate set of lines drawing boundaries and a different height basket for another similar sport on a basketball court.

 

[stapletonj]

In one of the facilities I play at, they put pickleball lines down on two of the 4 indoor courts with tape and have left them like that.
ball hits and skids like crazy. step on it while driving for a shot and you slip, although I have never gone all the way down, but have come close, ugh

 

[Connor35]

This really makes you wonder why they didn't just make the pickle ball court 4 inches shorter so its baseline is the tennis service line.

 

[schmke]

This really makes you wonder why they didn't just make the pickle ball court 4 inches shorter so its baseline is the tennis service line.

It is actually a foot difference. Pickleball is on a 44' long court, inspired by badminton I believe, while service line to service line is 42', but yes, point taken it would be convenient. Which is apparently what the USTA suggested be done, at least for recreational play: http://applecountrypickleball.blogspot.com/2018/06/more-cooperation-between-usta-and-usapa.html

 

[sureshs]

I met an old guy recently. He said he remembered a time in the US when racquetball became so popular that it looked like tennis was finished, but it eventually plateaued. I hope the same happens for Pickle.

 

[Chalkdust]

I’d rather pickleball be banned. They are using our courts not the other way around.

Not going to happen, given how PB is growing in popularity.
Cities and clubs are going to accommodate the PB demand one way or another:
Those with sufficient funds and space will build new PB courts - great!
But lacking funds and/or space they will either turn tennis courts into multi-use tennis/PB courts, or just convert some tennis courts completely to PB courts.
Pick your poison.

Your basketball analogy is stupid. There isn’t an alternate set of lines drawing boundaries and a different height basket for another similar sport on a basketball court.

Actually many schools and rec centers use a multi-purpose indoor space for BB, which is also used for volley ball, PB, and other court games, and has multiple markings.
But I was really thinking in a more general sense of how basketball players have to deal with so many distractions (e.g. noise and movement in the crowd when taking fouls), whereas we tennis players demand a let whenever someone in the vicinity farts etc.

 

[timmbuck2]

Have you smelled Bob's farts?????!!!!!

 

[sureshs]

Not going to happen, given how PB is growing in popularity.
Cities and clubs are going to accommodate the PB demand one way or another:
Those with sufficient funds and space will build new PB courts - great!
But lacking funds and/or space they will either turn tennis courts into multi-use tennis/PB courts, or just convert some tennis courts completely to PB courts.
Pick your poison.


Actually many schools and rec centers use a multi-purpose indoor space for BB, which is also used for volley ball, PB, and other court games, and has multiple markings.
But I was really thinking in a more general sense of how basketball players have to deal with so many distractions (e.g. noise and movement in the crowd when taking fouls), whereas we tennis players demand a let whenever someone in the vicinity farts etc.

Sound feedback is very important in tennis

 

[ttbrowne]

Luckily, pickleball is dying at our facilities. We had one outdoor court lined for PB but it is used mainly for drills and also for juniors. Our tennis members can't stand the noise. I personally hate the sport but that's just me.

 

[optic yellow]

I met an old guy recently. He said he remembered a time in the US when racquetball became so popular that it looked like tennis was finished, but it eventually plateaued. I hope the same happens for Pickle.

Racquetball requires physical exertion.

 

[silentkman]

I’d rather pickleball be banned. They are using our courts not the other way around.

Your basketball analogy is stupid. There isn’t an alternate set of lines drawing boundaries and a different height basket for another similar sport on a basketball court.

sheesh, being mean for no reason.

 

[CosmosMpower]

sheesh, being mean for no reason.

New to the internet?

 

[silentkman]

New to the internet?

That was a stupid remark.

 

[sureshs]

Luckily, pickleball is dying at our facilities. We had one outdoor court lined for PB but it is used mainly for drills and also for juniors. Our tennis members can't stand the noise. I personally hate the sport but that's just me.

Our one dual-lined court is hardly ever used for Pickle. The club pros started offering a group Pickle lesson every week but that has died too. Meanwhile, the membership demand has a waitlist of 2 years. These facts have been presented to the city. So hopefully our club will be safe.

 

[jonestim]

Racquetball requires physical exertion.

I have been playing pickleball lately in addition to tennis. Low 4.0 in both. I have been getting a better workout in pickleball doubles than tennis doubles - and my primary strength in tennis is my movement. I get to balls that others don't.

I used to have the attitude that you couldn't get a good workout in pickleball, but the points are fast, there is little downtime between points and there is lots of movement to cover angles. Yes, old folks can stand relatively still and still hit some balls - but they aren't going to win at a higher level. My shirts are wetter when I'm done with pickleball and tacky overgrips that are fine in tennis get too wet in pickleball and I needed to switch to a more absorbent one.

 

[Chalkdust]

I have been playing pickleball lately in addition to tennis. Low 4.0 in both. I have been getting a better workout in pickleball doubles than tennis doubles - and my primary strength in tennis is my movement. I get to balls that others don't.

I used to have the attitude that you couldn't get a good workout in pickleball, but the points are fast, there is little downtime between points and there is lots of movement to cover angles. Yes, old folks can stand relatively still and still hit some balls - but they aren't going to win at a higher level. My shirts are wetter when I'm done with pickleball and tacky overgrips that are fine in tennis get too wet in pickleball and I needed to switch to a more absorbent one.

Agree. 4.5 tennis player, no idea what I am in PB since I only play occasionally for fun. Obviously best workout is singles tennis. But between dubs and PB it's pretty close. Not much running in dubs but the workout is keeping on your toes and on the move. And same is true for PB. About equal for me from that perspective. But PB is faster with less time between points, so I give PB the edge. Obviously assuming play at a good enough level.

 

[optic yellow]

Interesting. I guess I can see it because the court is not tiny but the way you hear people talk about it you'd think all you need is the occasional lunge step.

 

[stapletonj]

sheesh, being mean for no reason.

actually, in my town they are actively trying to hurt tennis and taking over courts

after the tennis community offered to share all the courts with them via painted lines, portable nets, etc.,
they pressured the local p and r board to spend the entire year's allotment for the whole 11 court facility on
tearing out 2 courts and putting in 6 pickleball only courts (hard net posts and all).

after a February 2021 ice storm.... 3 of the remaining 9 courts had trees fall on the fences, crushing them down so far as to be
unusable. Were never fixed, so a couple of us old guys went to the local hardware store, got our ladders and tools and fixed them ourselves when they weren't looking (If we had asked permission, we would've been stopped and probably arrested if we didn't) Did I mention the p and r people didn't bother to haul away the fallen tree trucks and branches but left them in piles right beside the side fences? After thirty years of nothing, last year I personally saw 3 different snakes on the court and killed one myself. Others have found more. If a ball goes over the side fence, you just play on and forget about it.

Since all the money had been spent on pickleball courts, the 4 remaining main courts have not been maintained at all and 2 of the 4 courts have literally 3/4" wide cracks all the way down to the dirt - back fence to back fence. The upper 4 courts (100% paid for years ago by the tennis community through tournaments and fundraisers, etc.) were resurfaced in August of last year. (surface flaking up and buckling all the way down to the dirt, etc., high school teams refusing to play due to dangerous conditions, etc.) Apparently they went with the lowest of low bidders as they are already riddled with bubbles and cracks after less than 1 year.

Rumor has it they are wanting more......

So, yeah, sometimes you gotta be mean, but it is for a reason.

 

[silentkman]

actually, in my town they are actively trying to hurt tennis and taking over courts

after the tennis community offered to share all the courts with them via painted lines, portable nets, etc.,
they pressured the local p and r board to spend the entire year's allotment for the whole 11 court facility on
tearing out 2 courts and putting in 6 pickleball only courts (hard net posts and all).

after a February 2021 ice storm.... 3 of the remaining 9 courts had trees fall on the fences, crushing them down so far as to be
unusable. Were never fixed, so a couple of us old guys went to the local hardware store, got our ladders and tools and fixed them ourselves when they weren't looking (If we had asked permission, we would've been stopped and probably arrested if we didn't) Did I mention the p and r people didn't bother to haul away the fallen tree trucks and branches but left them in piles right beside the side fences? After thirty years of nothing, last year I personally saw 3 different snakes on the court and killed one myself. Others have found more. If a ball goes over the side fence, you just play on and forget about it.

Since all the money had been spent on pickleball courts, the 4 remaining main courts have not been maintained at all and 2 of the 4 courts have literally 3/4" wide cracks all the way down to the dirt - back fence to back fence. The upper 4 courts (100% paid for years ago by the tennis community through tournaments and fundraisers, etc.) were resurfaced in August of last year. (surface flaking up and buckling all the way down to the dirt, etc., high school teams refusing to play due to dangerous conditions, etc.) Apparently they went with the lowest of low bidders as they are already riddled with bubbles and cracks after less than 1 year.

Rumor has it they are wanting more......

So, yeah, sometimes you gotta be mean, but it is for a reason.

I was referring to one poster abt being mean. People can explain their point without being harsh. Low bidders on tennis courts have always been a problem. it's always short term, never long term. luckily, I play at a college without pickle ball lines etc. However, the high school I play at has not been resurfaced in 10 plus years.

 

[stapletonj]

sorry, wasn't trying to trash your comment, just a little early morning venting about the situation in general.....
unfortunately about 95% of the pickleball players are retirees or school kids who are too lazy to play tennis, so they
have time to lobby, etc.

 

[Cashman]

Just wrote on my blog on the subject.

I'm curious about the impetus for this rule and how it is being received by players and facilities. It appears this (so far) is just in the Colorado district and not an Intermountain rule, so how big an issue are pickleball lines on tennis courts in Colorado? And what is the common layout of the pickleball courts?

Some images from my blog on different court layouts I've seen, some are better/worse than others.

This is annoying due to the closeness of the pickleball baseline and tennis service line. With a single pickleball court, it also isn't common as more can be fit on the tennis court.

If the no volley zone line aligns with the service line, this is probably not terribly obnoxious, but it only gets two pickleball courts placed and you can fit more.

This is downright obnoxious regardless of the color of the lines (IMHO).

I don’t know much about pickleball, but these court layouts are not compliant with the ITF Rules of Tennis. From Appendix IX:

When sanctioning bodies approve so called “Blended Lines” on courts the following guidelines must be followed:

Colour:

• Within the same colour family as the background playing surface.
• Lighter than the background playing surface.
• Limit on colour variation of +22 points on the L* scale
  (Add ≤25% by volume of white paint to the background colour)

Pace:

• Within 5 CPR of the playing surface.

Dimensions:

• 1.0-1.5 cm narrower than the standard lines.

Marking:

• Terminate 8 cm from intersection with white playing lines.

Perhaps someone in Colorado pointed this out, resulting in the directive mentioned in the OP

 

[Cashman]

Pickleball courts should exist separately from tennis courts.

separate but equal?