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Grapplesnake USA Official

Grapplesnake USA Official

Professional
jakefromstatefarm said:
I have hit 3 times this week, alternating between one setup of M8 Full Bed and another of M8 with Paradox Crosses (my first time with this hybrid setup).

M8/Paradox is certainly more comfortable, but that is where the advantages end for me. M8 FB just does everything so well. With M8, I never feel I am fighting against the string for control or spin or direction. I take big cuts at the ball on both wings and never have to worry about containing it with M8 - which was my rub with Alpha (especially after a few hours). Slices and touch shots are super predictable with M8 FB, too. Spin on serve is sufficient (though I wouldn't mind a hint more). If there is one downside to M8 FB for me, it is that I often want a bit more depth with M8 more than some other setups - which leads me to wanting just a bit more pop. And comfort is not bad, but its certainly not great.

M8/Parodox solves the pop - but flies on me too much when ripping certain shots. (Though this set up certainly solves the comfort desire). It's sort of like Alpha (after a few hours) when it gets a little hot and margin for error drops and balls start flying. For example, what would be a beautiful and penetrating topspin backhand with M8 FB will consistently fly long with M8/PP. So then I'm trying to ease up how much I drive through the ball or loop up my swing for more spin. But come on, I am not going to mess with mechanics to make a string setup work. I worked around this in a few sets of doubles and some singles rally games, but it was always such a relief to go back to M8 FB afterwards and find predictability. That predictability allows me to take full cuts with more confidence and play more aggressive - which is my game. M8/Paradox just forces me to focus on playing safe with strokes so I don't fly em.... I had high hopes for this setup and maybe with the PP strung a bit tighter it could work, but so far its not worth the concessions. I also liked the fact that Paradox will break at some point - as a sort of "timer" to make sure I don't over play the polys. So I was sort of rooting for this setup out the gate.

I'm torn. Part of me thinks I should keep trying set ups & M8 hybrids looking for a hint more spin (and/or comfort). M8/Alpha, M8/Mako, Mako FB - these all could be decent combos I haven't tried. But part of me wants to stop the string changes and just dial something in. Maybe simplify - compare M8 FB and Mako FB then decide, buy a reel, fine tune tension & call it a day.

Anybody have any thoughts for me on the matter?
Click to expand...
If you still have the second half of the Paradox Pro, I think it’s definitely worth stringing it 2 or even 3 pounds tighter in those crosses, that might be best for your game. If it’s still not ideal for you, just stick to full bed of M8. Nothing wrong with that.
 
E

emhtennis

Hall of Fame
jakefromstatefarm said:
I have hit 3 times this week, alternating between one setup of M8 Full Bed and another of M8 with Paradox Crosses (my first time with this hybrid setup).

M8/Paradox is certainly more comfortable, but that is where the advantages end for me. M8 FB just does everything so well. With M8, I never feel I am fighting against the string for control or spin or direction. I take big cuts at the ball on both wings and never have to worry about containing it with M8 - which was my rub with Alpha (especially after a few hours). Slices and touch shots are super predictable with M8 FB, too. Spin on serve is sufficient (though I wouldn't mind a hint more). If there is one downside to M8 FB for me, it is that I often want a bit more depth with M8 more than some other setups - which leads me to wanting just a bit more pop. And comfort is not bad, but its certainly not great.

M8/Parodox solves the pop - but flies on me too much when ripping certain shots. (Though this set up certainly solves the comfort desire). It's sort of like Alpha (after a few hours) when it gets a little hot and margin for error drops and balls start flying. For example, what would be a beautiful and penetrating topspin backhand with M8 FB will consistently fly long with M8/PP. So then I'm trying to ease up how much I drive through the ball or loop up my swing for more spin. But come on, I am not going to mess with mechanics to make a string setup work. I worked around this in a few sets of doubles and some singles rally games, but it was always such a relief to go back to M8 FB afterwards and find predictability. That predictability allows me to take full cuts with more confidence and play more aggressive - which is my game. M8/Paradox just forces me to focus on playing safe with strokes so I don't fly em.... I had high hopes for this setup and maybe with the PP strung a bit tighter it could work, but so far its not worth the concessions. I also liked the fact that Paradox will break at some point - as a sort of "timer" to make sure I don't over play the polys. So I was sort of rooting for this setup out the gate.

I'm torn. Part of me thinks I should keep trying set ups & M8 hybrids looking for a hint more spin (and/or comfort). M8/Alpha, M8/Mako, Mako FB - these all could be decent combos I haven't tried. But part of me wants to stop the string changes and just dial something in. Maybe simplify - compare M8 FB and Mako FB then decide, buy a reel, fine tune tension & call it a day.

Anybody have any thoughts for me on the matter?
Click to expand...
What was your tension? I've played M8 1.30 at 40lbs in a Radical MP prostock and it was awesome. Top 3 string setups for me so far.

So, I'd recommend dropping 5lbs from where you are and see how you like it.
 
Grapplesnake USA Official

Grapplesnake USA Official

Professional
jakefromstatefarm said:
@Grapplesnake USA Official: First M8/PP was 51/53. Would you go to 51/55?
Click to expand...
Yes, that's right. I don't normally recommend a big delta, since players go for the hybrid often to get more power. For those players, same tension or +1 or 2 lb crosses is indicated. But everyone's different. In your case, you got too much change given your style of play. Therefore, you probably want to tame Paradox or Mako when combined with M8 mains by bumping the tension even more. The end result will hopefully be a "little" more power, and an increase in feel.

We can't forget that M8 is quite low powered, and you're used to that. Give it a shot. Paradox is a super special string. I am currently using it in full bed in a pretty low powered frame in which M8 wouldn't work for me, unless I dropped tension, which I like doing, but not too much given that I am at 5000 ft of elevation.
 
F

Fantomas

New User
Just wanted to add my opinion on some grapplesnake strings I tried this year in my 2022 Ezone 98. My usual string setuo is Mayami tour hex.

M8: agree on what is the common opinion here. Instant pickup, feel, pocketing, control, spin, comfort - all is there. Really like it. Strung at 22/21 kg.

Tour sniper: played the best tennis with this one (according to my hitting partner), crisp, directional control... BUT: this is the only string I ever felt elbow pain. Starting at the second hit. Tried with a dampener on day two, but no change. Really would like to use it but it beats up my arm. Played with a different string four days later, no more issues. 23/22 kg.

Alpha: love it! Has the most power of the ones I tried, but also awesome control. Balls hardly fly out. Not lacking any spin, durable, fun and best of all, the comfort is above any string I tried. Plus, on impact, you know exactly where the ball goes and if it is in or out. Very predictable. 24/23 kg

ATM thinking of switching from tour hex to Alpha - for the massive gain in power, but only sacrificing a small amount of control. Or use them in a hybrid, which I did already, plays also nice. But I prefer a full bead of each.
 
Grapplesnake USA Official

Grapplesnake USA Official

Professional
Fantomas said:
Just wanted to add my opinion on some grapplesnake strings I tried this year in my 2022 Ezone 98. My usual string setuo is Mayami tour hex.

M8: agree on what is the common opinion here. Instant pickup, feel, pocketing, control, spin, comfort - all is there. Really like it. Strung at 22/21 kg.

Tour sniper: played the best tennis with this one (according to my hitting partner), crisp, directional control... BUT: this is the only string I ever felt elbow pain. Starting at the second hit. Tried with a dampener on day two, but no change. Really would like to use it but it beats up my arm. Played with a different string four days later, no more issues. 23/22 kg.

Alpha: love it! Has the most power of the ones I tried, but also awesome control. Balls hardly fly out. Not lacking any spin, durable, fun and best of all, the comfort is above any string I tried. Plus, on impact, you know exactly where the ball goes and if it is in or out. Very predictable. 24/23 kg

ATM thinking of switching from tour hex to Alpha - for the massive gain in power, but only sacrificing a small amount of control. Or use them in a hybrid, which I did already, plays also nice. But I prefer a full bead of each.
Click to expand...
Awesome! Thanks a bunch for taking the time to write this. If you revisit Sniper, I would suggest to string it at the same if not slightly below your M8 tension, and not higher. That said, the Ezone 98 is very string and tension sensitive, so the window of opportunity for things to feel great in that frame is, to me, small and it might take some tinkering with your tension.
 
F

Fantomas

New User
Grapplesnake USA Official said:
Awesome! Thanks a bunch for taking the time to write this. If you revisit Sniper, I would suggest to string it at the same if not slightly below your M8 tension, and not higher. That said, the Ezone 98 is very string and tension sensitive, so the window of opportunity for things to feel great in that frame is, to me, small and it might take some tinkering with your tension.
Click to expand...
I agree, I actually had the tension references from reading through this forum. Someone mentioned alpha being controlled power, I totally agree on that!

But yes, I intend to re visite sniper and had the exact same thought regarding tension.
M8 will for sure also get another go sometime in winter.
 
Grapplesnake USA Official

Grapplesnake USA Official

Professional
Fantomas said:
I agree, I actually had the tension references from reading through this forum. Someone mentioned alpha being controlled power, I totally agree on that!

But yes, I intend to re visite sniper and had the exact same thought regarding tension.
M8 will for sure also get another go sometime in winter.
Click to expand...
Perfect! Thank you again and enjoy.
 
P

PigPen

Professional
@Grapplesnake USA Official 61 year old 4.5 doubles player with a Percept 97 here. I am playing with an M8 / Alpha hybrid, but looking for more power and perhaps a crispier feel. Any suggestions? Also, can you provide a power scale for your strings from lowest to highest?

Thank you!
 
T

Tennis And Anime Lover

Rookie
Grapplesnake USA Official said:
Tour Sniper comes to mind, but also Tour Mako, which gives you the little extra power you are seeking, while retaining a lot of accuracy.
Click to expand...
Yeah of all strings a placed orders for this time (18 strings) I kinda anticipated Tour Sniper to be a close contender. The only thing i have doubts on concerning Mako is it's spin potential. To this point i haven't found a round string that i actually gel well with. Nonetheless I'll test all 3 of them. Have received M8, TS and Mako couple of days ago. Still awaiting for an another shipment to arrive from TW, a selection of Toroline strings and Sync. Hopefully in the upcoming days. Have an appointment with my stringer upcoming Thursday
 
T

Tennis And Anime Lover

Rookie
VanDerVaart23 said:
Yeah I believe what you're looking for is Tour Sniper, but I'd stick with TBHS7T, better string than TS in my opinion
Click to expand...
Thanks for your feedback. I do love my TBHS7T a lot. Just hope to find that one string that plays and feels pretty much the same in addition of that little extra punch TBHS7T is missing. That would be an upgrade. When i think about it, if we blend my top 3 string of choices together. That would be the closest thing to perfection for me

And euh dont mind me asking, are you Dutch by any chance?? :)
 
R

REELSONREELS

New User
Going to hit with Mako tonight, will post thoughts after. I have to agree with One Punch Chungus @dr. godmode, that the string stretches a ton on the machine. Definitely pulls like natural gut and almost like zyex monogut. I strung at 52 on a PA98, and it defintely feels soft... On the note of string texture, its rough, but nowhere near as rough as Paradox Pro... Kind of reminds me of going from 80 grit being paradox pro to 120 grit on Tour Mako. I'm going to string up a second PA98 with 1.25 M8 as well to give them a contrast. Looking forward to that comparison video Beckett!
 
P

patrickluvsoj

Rookie
Can anyone comment on playability duration for Mako? I can't restring often so I like strings that play consistent for longer. One of the reasons I like Tour Sniper.
 
E

Eudaimorium

New User
I'm curious whether, based on the stretchiness of Mako described by everyone so far, if playability would benefit disproportionately from a solid prestretch, like for Monogut ZX. That, or maybe a non-abrasive cross string?
 
dr. godmode

dr. godmode

Hall of Fame
patrickluvsoj said:
Can anyone comment on playability duration for Mako? I can't restring often so I like strings that play consistent for longer. One of the reasons I like Tour Sniper.
Click to expand...
Plays well until breakage but the breakage happens a little bit quicker than most polys. In a similar realm to many rough strings or abrasive strings like RPM Power or Paradox Pro. I’m at roughly hour 5 and I don’t not think it will make 10 hours, depending on who I hit with.
 
VanDerVaart23

VanDerVaart23

Rookie
I just played with Tour Mako tonight.
Yes, it is super soft. Extra powerful. I get what Becket said about "modern" control. You have to spin it to make the ball in.

I requested 50# but it felt like 35#. Trampoline effect is exaggerated. For anyone thinking on using this string, I would suggest a couple of pounds tighter

To spin with this string gets you tired. I don't think it's very durable. I would probably recommend as a cross string with a shaped poly.

Final thoughts, I didn't like it, too soft for me. I would recommend for people with slower strokes or extra spinny strokes.

Comfort 5/5
Spin 4/5
Control 1/5
Power 5/5
Tension stability 2/5

Edit
Yesterday with racquet tune freshly strung I tested and it said 49# today after just one hour of hitting it dropped to 44.5#
 
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R

REELSONREELS

New User
REELSONREELS said:
Going to hit with Mako tonight, will post thoughts after. I have to agree with One Punch Chungus @dr. godmode, that the string stretches a ton on the machine. Definitely pulls like natural gut and almost like zyex monogut. I strung at 52 on a PA98, and it defintely feels soft... On the note of string texture, its rough, but nowhere near as rough as Paradox Pro... Kind of reminds me of going from 80 grit being paradox pro to 120 grit on Tour Mako. I'm going to string up a second PA98 with 1.25 M8 as well to give them a contrast. Looking forward to that comparison video Beckett!
Click to expand...
Played a set with Tour Mako, and it definitely is soft, and IMO very powerful. I usually play with 1.30 M8 at 50lbs, and I had a really hard time keeping forehands in today with Tour Mako. I switched back to M8, and I started landing my shots again. Going to give it another go…I think it may serve well as a cross to M8, although I would string the crosses a few pounds tighter. I won’t write off Mako yet, but it needs a few tweaks to make it playable for me. My next few tests will be: lower tension at 46, higher tension at 56, and as a cross to 1.30 M8.
 
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VanDerVaart23

VanDerVaart23

Rookie
REELSONREELS said:
Played a set with Tour Mako, and it definitely is soft, and IMO very powerful. I usually play with 1.30 M8 at 50lbs, and I had a really hard time keeping forehands in today with Tour Mako. I switched back to M8, and I started landing my shots again. Going to give it another go…I think it may serve well as a cross to M8, although I would string the crosses a few pounds tighter. I won’t write off Mako yet, but it needs a few tweaks to make it playable for me. My next few tests will be: lower tension at 46, higher tension at 56, and as a cross to 1.30 M8.
Click to expand...
Felt the same thing. Felt that I needed to string it at 60# :/
I'm discarding this. I don't see this string being as popular as other grapplesnake offerings.
 
M

M A

New User
Grapplesnake USA Official said:
If you still have the second half of the Paradox Pro, I think it’s definitely worth stringing it 2 or even 3 pounds tighter in those crosses, that might be best for your game. If it’s still not ideal for you, just stick to full bed of M8. Nothing wrong with that.
Click to expand...
Good morning, what is the brand's crisp and lively string? Thanks a lot!
 
MSUspartans777

MSUspartans777

Rookie
Hit with Silver 7 Tour crossed with Tour Mako in a Blade Pro 18x20v9 last night for an hour of practice and one practice set. The frame was strung at 52 / 48.

- Very soft, very comfortable
- Powerful with decent pop (Tension bump next go round)
- Easy access to spin
- Shows early signs of notching after two hours.
- Looks amazing in the new Blade
- Solid pocketing and good bite

Overall, very impressed. I'll keep using it but will up the tension a bit.
 
Grapplesnake USA Official

Grapplesnake USA Official

Professional
REELSONREELS said:
Played a set with Tour Mako, and it definitely is soft, and IMO very powerful. I usually play with 1.30 M8 at 50lbs, and I had a really hard time keeping forehands in today with Tour Mako. I switched back to M8, and I started landing my shots again. Going to give it another go…I think it may serve well as a cross to M8, although I would string the crosses a few pounds tighter. I won’t write off Mako yet, but it needs a few tweaks to make it playable for me. My next few tests will be: lower tension at 46, higher tension at 56, and as a cross to 1.30 M8.
Click to expand...
Let us know how it goes! That's a big 10 lb spread and I would perhaps suggest not going with 46 Mako if you currently play M8 at 50. M8 is super low-powered in comparison. I would instead test 52 and 54 Mako.
 
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Grapplesnake USA Official

Grapplesnake USA Official

Professional
MSUspartans777 said:
Hit with Silver 7 Tour crossed with Tour Mako in a Blade Pro 18x20v9 last night for an hour of practice and one practice set. The frame was strung at 52 / 48.

- Very soft, very comfortable
- Powerful with decent pop (Tension bump next go round)
- Easy access to spin
- Shows early signs of notching after two hours.
- Looks amazing in the new Blade
- Solid pocketing and good bite

Overall, very impressed. I'll keep using it but will up the tension a bit.
Click to expand...
Excellent. Love Tour Mako in those 18x20 frames. Put a lot of hours of testing in the H22, PT57E, H19, retail Blades v7, 8 and 9, the current Speed Pro and also the new Pure Strike 98 18x20. Particularly loved it in the Pure Strike.
 
MSUspartans777

MSUspartans777

Rookie
Grapplesnake USA Official said:
Excellent. Love Tour Mako in those 18x20 frames. Put a lot of hours of testing in the H22, PT57E, H19, retail Blades v7, 8 and 9, the current Speed Pro and also the new Pure Strike 98 18x20. Particularly loved it in the Pure Strike.
Click to expand...

So far the experience has been fantastic. I can't wait to keep testing it. Aesthetics are 10/10 combined with the new Blade color.
 
Grapplesnake USA Official

Grapplesnake USA Official

Professional
VanDerVaart23 said:
I agree, Mako is for 18x20 control frame
Click to expand...
Depends on the player. Also put hundreds of hours of testing in 16x19 frames, a lot of them tweeners, very successfully. I think you mentioned in a previous post you strung it at 48. That seems low to me if you were using an open pattern. But, again, everyone's different in what they perceive as appropriate tension. Relative to M8, it provides more power. This it, to some players, very welcomed. Lots of them asking here what to blend M8 with for more "pop". Thing is, M8 is one of the lowest powered polys out there, hence why it's so popular at low tensions. A different animal in that regard. Mako is closer in power to Paradox Pro, but at the same time similar to M8 in terms of snap back and stability. I typically string them 3 lb apart (M8 and PP).
 
VanDerVaart23

VanDerVaart23

Rookie
Grapplesnake USA Official said:
Depends on the player. Also put hundreds of hours of testing in 16x19 frames, a lot of them tweeners, very successfully. I think you mentioned in a previous post you strung it at 48. That seems low to me if you were using an open pattern. But, again, everyone's different in what they perceive as appropriate tension. Relative to M8, it provides more power. This it, to some players, very welcomed. Lots of them asking here what to blend M8 with for more "pop". Thing is, M8 is one of the lowest powered polys out there, hence why it's so popular at low tensions. A different animal in that regard. Mako is closer in power to Paradox Pro, but at the same time similar to M8 in terms of snap back and stability. I typically string them 3 lb apart (M8 and PP).
Click to expand...
I did 50, RTune reading was 49 fresh, one hour of hitting RTune says 44. I wish I would've done 54 at least. Used EZONE 98.

Thanks for the feedback
 
J

JK208

New User
You said that M8 is one of the lowest powered polys out there, so would you say that Tour Sniper is more powerful? I've always heard that Tour M8 was above average in terms of power. Unrelated question but would you say that Tour Sniper or Tour M8 has more spin?
 
Grapplesnake USA Official

Grapplesnake USA Official

Professional
JK208 said:
You said that M8 is one of the lowest powered polys out there, so would you say that Tour Sniper is more powerful? I've always heard that Tour M8 was above average in terms of power. Unrelated question but would you say that Tour Sniper or Tour M8 has more spin?
Click to expand...
They are both low powered. Regarding spin, none of them achieve their potential due to sharp edges. We didn't want that. They are both, to me, pretty good at it due to different reasons. In Sniper, the added aluminum really helps at sort of disguising the pocketing and adding rotation to the ball while feeling crisp and, again, without that much pocketing. Just enough. The aluminum further assists with precision and playability duration, and the string should therefore be used at the lower end of your comfortable tension range. M8, on the other hand, accentuates the dwell-time and ball pocketing and this feels very obvious after break-in. The snap back is also high. To achieve similar levels of precision as with Sniper, the string is intrinsically less powerful, but the final product feels similar after accounting for the extra dwell time and pocketing. This is why M8 feels particularly low-powered fresh off the stringer, and before developing all the pocketing.

Both feel different when achieving similar performances. M8 tends to feel more comfortable due to the lack of aluminum. Most of the players can use M8 as as a serious power weapon precisely because they string it rather low and are able to achieve good launch while not feeling out of control. I do see the occasional report of people not getting enough power, and this is typically due to too high of a tension or simply because the string isn't appropriate in full bed for an entry level of play. Again, hopefully understanding the string, proper setup, and knowing what's needed at your level is important.
 
Blade_X

Blade_X

Professional
Grapplesnake USA Official said:
They are both low powered. Regarding spin, none of them achieve their potential due to sharp edges. We didn't want that. They are both, to me, pretty good at it due to different reasons. In Sniper, the added aluminum really helps at sort of disguising the pocketing and adding rotation to the ball while feeling crisp and, again, without that much pocketing. Just enough. The aluminum further assists with precision and playability duration, and the string should therefore be used at the lower end of your comfortable tension range. M8, on the other hand, accentuates the dwell-time and ball pocketing and this feels very obvious after break-in. The snap back is also high. To achieve similar levels of precision as with Sniper, the string is intrinsically less powerful, but the final product feels similar after accounting for the extra dwell time and pocketing. This is why M8 feels particularly low-powered fresh off the stringer, and before developing all the pocketing.

Both feel different when achieving similar performances. M8 tends to feel more comfortable due to the lack of aluminum. Most of the players can use M8 as as a serious power weapon precisely because they string it rather low and are able to achieve good launch while not feeling out of control. I do see the occasional report of people not getting enough power, and this is typically due to too high of a tension or simply because the string isn't appropriate in full bed for an entry level of play. Again, hopefully understanding the string, proper setup, and knowing what's needed at your level is important.
Click to expand...
I wish i knew it before. Because i loved the feel, the plushness and the dwell time of M8 but felt so low powered to me strung at 23kg…. even on my super open pattern 18x16. I ll try it at 20kg next time. I already strung Maco at 22kg for tomorrow testing. Sniper had great feel too but found it kinda slippery….. definitely more firm than M8 but i wouldn’t say its a stiff feeling string like alu or tour byte. I ll try that again on my blade v9 cause i first tried it in an older blade version.
 
Carreau

Carreau

Semi-Pro
Blade_X said:
I wish i knew it before. Because i loved the feel, the plushness and the dwell time of M8 but felt so low powered to me strung at 23kg…. even on my super open pattern 18x16. I ll try it at 20kg next time. I already strung Maco at 22kg for tomorrow testing. Sniper had great feel too but found it kinda slippery….. definitely more firm than M8 but i wouldn’t say its a stiff feeling string like alu or tour byte. I ll try that again on my blade v9 cause i first tried it in an older blade version.
Click to expand...
I found TS being slightly slippery as well (caused some inconsistency and erratic launch). Hybrid with Alpha in crosses solved this issue in my case. However, the feel is not so great.
 
VanDerVaart23

VanDerVaart23

Rookie
Blade_X said:
kinda slippery
Click to expand...

Carreau said:
being slightly slippery
Click to expand...
Agree with this. I was thinking that @Grapplesnake USA Official missed this point in his description.

When I tried Tour Sniper the ball was sliding kind of weird. I thought I screwed up the tension (being too low at 48lbs), but now that I read this, it's just as you guys describe it, turning it unpredictable.

I found the string to be a good cross for gut/multi hybrid.
 
Carreau

Carreau

Semi-Pro
VanDerVaart23 said:
Agree with this. I was thinking that @Grapplesnake USA Official missed this point in his description.

When I tried Tour Sniper the ball was sliding kind of weird. I thought I screwed up the tension (being too low at 48lbs), but now that I read this, it's just as you guys describe it, turning it unpredictable.

I found the string to be a good cross for gut/multi hybrid.
Click to expand...
IMO, the tension window for being spot on for both TS and M8 is quite small. In TS case 0,5 kg higher makes it too boardy and unforgiving and 0,5 kg lower makes it launchy. Sergetti method worked well with TS and helped with this issue a bit.
In M8 case Sergetti did not work at all (my guess is that tension was too high for middle strings).
Another slippery string to avoid (if you do not like slipperiness) - Excellent Purple Plus.
 
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