Is 1HBH really a weakness in today's (professional) game?

[1HBHFTW]

I can't remember the thread, but someone mentioned Federer's wins being extra impressive because he has a 1HBH "which is a serious weakness in today's game." I understand there are weaknesses to a 1HBH (ROS, high balls, harder to hit on the run), but there are also strengths to it and I just don't agree that overall the swing is a weakness itself in "today's game".

I think that's supported by the fact that 3 of the 7 major winners since 2015 (and 3/8 since 2010) have had a 1HBH, even though only like 10% of ATP players use it.

Admittedly, I'm biased.

 

[Jonesy]

Having a bad backhand is the weakness. Never being under pressure on one side is something that makes Djokovic life a lot easier.

 

[merwy]

I think it has advantages and disadvantages, and isn’t necessarily a weaker shot at all. If you’re a talented player who has practiced that shot his whole life, I think it doesn’t matter much if that’s a 1hbh or 2hbh in terms of how great it can be.

 

[Sir Weed]

You need a very clear picture in your head re "this is how I want to play tactically and within the tactic this is what I want to do in this situation". And you need to understand m * v ASAP (kid).
Two handed backhand is not easier because of strength but because you can get away with a lack of understanding/experience what the f is going on in this physics engine (compensate v with m) and without very good ball trajectory anticipation.

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

With that 2nd hand on the handle with the 2hbh, you can hold the ball up the line so much easier and direct high balls more effectively.

I'm also impressed how 2handers have very good defensive 1h slices nowadays.

 

[mike danny]

With that 2nd hand on the handle with the 2hbh, you can hold the ball up the line so much easier and direct high balls more effectively.

I'm also impressed how 2handers have very good defensive 1h slices nowadays.

Except Tsitsipas LOL.

 

[mike danny]

A one hander is only a weakness in today's game if you're playing Nadal.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Why to have a 1 hander when you can crush the ball with 2 hands?
Zverev is perfect example. Gamewise ugly but due to his backhand, very effective.

 

[Sir Weed]

Inside vs Outside balls:

1HBH has a more vulnerable outside balls component than the 2HBH does so you need a good, heavy forehand while not just relying on your forehand. You need two solid wings, be able to change directions and be unpredictable. 1HBH is precision under pressure. Calm mind. Bruce Lee stuff.

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

Except Tsitsipas LOL.

Yeah. Falling over himself just to hit a mediocre "topspin" bh.

 

[Booger]

Yes it is a big impairment, unfortunately. I wish the ATP would change that since 90% of fans prefer watching single handers, but I doubt they will.

You will notice a couple trends of the very few one handers who make it to the pros:

1. They all have really good one handers. Can't hide a bad one hander, but you can hide a mediocre two hander by just shoveling it back. e.g. Kevin Anderson never does anything with his BH except rally it back.

2. Have huge forehands to offset the disadvantage of a single hander.

 

[1HBHFTW]

Why to have a 1 hander when you can crush the ball with 2 hands?
Zverev is perfect example. Gamewise ugly but due to his backhand, very effective.

bc you can also crush a ball with 1 hand even harder..

10 Fastest backhands in AO 2021 are below.. 4 of the top 10 are 1HBH (again even though a small minority use a 1 hander).

Rank	MEN	Speed (km/h)
1​	Denis Shapovalov	163.2​
2​	Nikoloz Basilashvili	161​
3​	Rafael Nadal	156.6​
4​	Pierre-Hugues Herbert	154.9​
5​	Grigor Dimitrov	154.3​
6​	Alexander Zverev	153.9​
7​	Stan Wawrinka	153.8​
8​	Alexei Popyrin	153.5​
9​	Fobio Fognini	153​
10​	Dominic Thiem	150.7​

 

[nolefam_2024]

bc you can also crush a ball with 1 hand even harder..

10 Fastest backhands in AO 2021 are below.. 4 of the top 10 are 1HBH (again even though a small minority use a 1 hander).

Rank	MEN	Speed (km/h)
1​	Denis Shapovalov	163.2​
2​	Nikoloz Basilashvili	161​
3​	Rafael Nadal	156.6​
4​	Pierre-Hugues Herbert	154.9​
5​	Grigor Dimitrov	154.3​
6​	Alexander Zverev	153.9​
7​	Stan Wawrinka	153.8​
8​	Alexei Popyrin	153.5​
9​	Fobio Fognini	153​
10​	Dominic Thiem	150.7​

You might be right that single handers have the power to crush. They don't have consistency. Apart from Stan on this list, for everyone, its great strategy to attack the backhand.

 

[1HBHFTW]

You might be right that single handers have the power to crush. They don't have consistency. Apart from Stan on this list, for everyone, its great strategy to attack the backhand.

Fair, but the same could be said about strategy against 80% of 2 handers. honestly the only 2 players I can think of where it is truly a BAD idea to go after backhand are Zverev and Gasquet. Pretty much anyone else has at least an equally dangerous FH even if their BH is elite.

I agree 1H are less consistent because it’s more important to be in good position. To me it’s a more aggressive shot, with higher upside (primarily angles and earlier contact), but easier to hit errors if you’re out of position.

 

[King No1e]

bc you can also crush a ball with 1 hand even harder..

10 Fastest backhands in AO 2021 are below.. 4 of the top 10 are 1HBH (again even though a small minority use a 1 hander).

Rank	MEN	Speed (km/h)
1​	Denis Shapovalov	163.2​
2​	Nikoloz Basilashvili	161​
3​	Rafael Nadal	156.6​
4​	Pierre-Hugues Herbert	154.9​
5​	Grigor Dimitrov	154.3​
6​	Alexander Zverev	153.9​
7​	Stan Wawrinka	153.8​
8​	Alexei Popyrin	153.5​
9​	Fobio Fognini	153​
10​	Dominic Thiem	150.7​

2H gives you a more stable rally ball, but 1H is a better offensive weapon - more range, more spin, more angles.
Stability is really what it all comes down to - the average 2H is more stable and repeatable than the average 1H, but if you've got a strong, technically sound 1HBH (Wawrinka, Shapovalov, Gasquet, Thiem) then it's absolutely a strength.

Let's just say it's easier to have an effective 2HBH than an effective 1H. There are a lot more players with Zverev-tier 2H's than Shapovalov-tier 1H's.

 

[socallefty]

There are only 50 1HBH players in the top 100 of the ATP tour according to tennisabstract - 10% of elite players. In the top 100, there are about 12 players. The question is if there are more than 10-12% of players with a 1HBH who try to make it on tour every year or if the number is less than 10%. If it is the first case, you could argue that a 1HBH is a disadvantage as a smaller % make it to the top. If it is the second case, then maybe it is not an disadvantage if a higher % make it to the top echelon of the sport.

If a very small % of juniors are being coached to hit with a 1HBH, it means that at least coaches have decided that a 2HBH is a better shot to teach kids. It is harder to teach a 1HBH and I guess coaches don’t see enough added benefit from it in the long-term to make it worthwhile to try in 90% of cases. I have a 1HBH and I taught my kids 2HBHs - the only thing I have in common with Federer who made a comment that he would teach his kids a 2HBH.

 

[1HBHFTW]

There are only 50 1HBH players in the top 100 of the ATP tour according to tennisabstract - 10% of elite players. In the top 100, there are about 12 players. The question is if there are more than 10-12% of players with a 1HBH who try to make it on tour every year or if the number is less than 10%. If it is the first case, you could argue that a 1HBH is a disadvantage as a smaller % make it to the top. If it is the second case, then maybe it is not an disadvantage if a higher % make it to the top echelon of the sport.

If a very small % of juniors are being coached to hit with a 1HBH, it means that at least coaches have decided that a 2HBH is a better shot to teach kids. It is harder to teach a 1HBH and I guess coaches don’t see enough added benefit from it in the long-term to make it worthwhile to try in 90% of cases. I have a 1HBH and I taught my kids 2HBHs - the only thing I have in common with Federer who made a comment that he would teach his kids a 2HBH.

The bigger cause of limited 1HBH pros is that a 1HBH is extremely difficult for young kids without enough body mass IMO. By the time elite youth are physically mature enough to hit a powerful 1 hander they’ve already been hitting a 2 hand for years so they would need to sacrifice short term results to make the change. Given the high value placed on youth tournaments etc now-a-days most people aren’t willing to make that investment for what could potentially be a benefit long term but might not.

 

[1HBHFTW]

2H gives you a more stable rally ball, but 1H is a better offensive weapon - more range, more spin, more angles.
Stability is really what it all comes down to - the average 2H is more stable and repeatable than the average 1H, but if you've got a strong, technically sound 1HBH (Wawrinka, Shapovalov, Gasquet, Thiem) then it's absolutely a strength.

Let's just say it's easier to have an effective 2HBH than an effective 1H. There are a lot more players with Zverev-tier 2H's than Shapovalov-tier 1H's.

Agree with this whole heartedly.

 

[King No1e]

There are only 50 1HBH players in the top 100 of the ATP tour according to tennisabstract - 10% of elite players. In the top 100, there are about 12 players. The question is if there are more than 10-12% of players with a 1HBH who try to make it on tour every year or if the number is less than 10%. If it is the first case, you could argue that a 1HBH is a disadvantage as a smaller % make it to the top. If it is the second case, then maybe it is not an disadvantage if a higher % make it to the top echelon of the sport.

If a very small % of juniors are being coached to hit with a 1HBH, it means that at least coaches have decided that a 2HBH is a better shot to teach kids. It is harder to teach a 1HBH and I guess coaches don’t see enough added benefit from it in the long-term to make it worthwhile to try in 90% of cases. I have a 1HBH and I taught my kids 2HBHs - the only thing I have in common with Federer who made a comment that he would teach his kids a 2HBH.

One other thing I have in common with Federer - there are infinite universes, but in none of them would I be able to beat Nadal at RG

 

[RaulRamirez]

Yes it is a big impairment, unfortunately. I wish the ATP would change that since 90% of fans prefer watching single handers, but I doubt they will.

You will notice a couple trends of the very few one handers who make it to the pros:

1. They all have really good one handers. Can't hide a bad one hander, but you can hide a mediocre two hander by just shoveling it back. e.g. Kevin Anderson never does anything with his BH except rally it back.

2. Have huge forehands to offset the disadvantage of a single hander.

How can the ATP change this?

 

[Red Rick]

I can't remember the thread, but someone mentioned Federer's wins being extra impressive because he has a 1HBH "which is a serious weakness in today's game." I understand there are weaknesses to a 1HBH (ROS, high balls, harder to hit on the run), but there are also strengths to it and I just don't agree that overall the swing is a weakness itself in "today's game".

I think that's supported by the fact that 3 of the 7 major winners since 2015 (and 3/8 since 2010) have had a 1HBH, even though only like 10% of ATP players use it.

Admittedly, I'm biased.

I think it is, primarily becuase of the 2nd serve return. In neutral rallies it can sometimes be better than the 2 hander.

 

[Booger]

How can the ATP change this?

Easiest way is to quit slowing down the courts to reward grinders and defense only players. Speed them back up a little to reward attacking style tennis.

Indian Wells was literally as slow as a clay court this year. That's how we got Norrie v Basilishvili and not Dimi or Tsitsipas.

 

[cortado]

Easiest way is to quit slowing down the courts to reward grinders and defense only players. Speed them back up a little to reward attacking style tennis.

Indian Wells was literally as slow as a clay court this year. That's how we got Norrie v Basilishvili and not Dimi or Tsitsipas.

Tsitsipas does better on slower surfaces no?

 

[1HBHFTW]

Easiest way is to quit slowing down the courts to reward grinders and defense only players. Speed them back up a little to reward attacking style tennis.

Indian Wells was literally as slow as a clay court this year. That's how we got Norrie v Basilishvili and not Dimi or Tsitsipas.

Depends on the player I suppose but I think slower courts actually favor 1H. Gives them time to set up in position

 

[Booger]

Tsitsipas does better on slower surfaces no?

Does he? Ok no excuse for him.

But Norrie still couldn't push his way to a M1000 on a fast surface.

 

[TopspintheTerrible]

Thiem did an interview with Tennis Channel recently and said if he was a coach he wouldn’t teach his player a 1HB.

 

[Sir Weed]

Thiem did an interview with Tennis Channel recently and said if he was a coach he wouldn’t teach his player a 1HB.

Thiem's backhand is not a good role model and we don't know what his understanding of the stroke is like. His backhand is mostly about mass IMO.

 

[Booger]

Maybe the ATP should just ban 2 handers. Basketball banned zone defense because the game was becoming boring. Hockey nerfed their defenses. NFL made it illegal to touch a QB or receiver.

 

[cortado]

Maybe the ATP should just ban 2 handers. Basketball banned zone defense because the game was becoming boring. Hockey nerfed their defenses. NFL made it illegal to touch a QB or receiver.

It would certainly be interesting if they did.

 

[TennisLurker]

Will we ever see a tennis player who often switches from one handed to two handed depending on what's most comfortable or effective for a particular shot?

 

[cortado]

Will we ever see a tennis player who often switches from one handed to two handed depending on what's most comfortable or effective for a particular shot?

I don't know why more don't do this. I use a one-hander except for half-volley on the back-hand side. 2 hands comes as natural reflex on half volley for me.

 

[RaulRamirez]

Maybe the ATP should just ban 2 handers. Basketball banned zone defense because the game was becoming boring. Hockey nerfed their defenses. NFL made it illegal to touch a QB or receiver.

That's where I thought you were going, but I don't see that as analogous to the changes in the other sports. It would be more like banning switch-hitters in baseball. Makes no sense to me.

 

[RaulRamirez]

Will we ever see a tennis player who often switches from one handed to two handed depending on what's most comfortable or effective for a particular shot?

You see it on slice backhands. Maybe, it could be used more on ROS.

 

[ffw2]

I don't get why the AELTC never bothered to update the inscription on its Wimbledon trophy.

NB: Tough to get a clean image of this (for some reason)... but reads "SINGLE-HANDED"

 

[Blahovic]

I think these days a single hander isn't necessarily a weakness from the baseline for those who make it to the top of the ATP.

The big difference actually is the return of serve. A double hander is inherently superior for returning and generally for taking the ball on the rise, as it's a more compact stroke.

 

[Ray Mercer]

2H gives you a more stable rally ball, but 1H is a better offensive weapon - more range, more spin, more angles.
Stability is really what it all comes down to - the average 2H is more stable and repeatable than the average 1H, but if you've got a strong, technically sound 1HBH (Wawrinka, Shapovalov, Gasquet, Thiem) then it's absolutely a strength.

Let's just say it's easier to have an effective 2HBH than an effective 1H. There are a lot more players with Zverev-tier 2H's than Shapovalov-tier 1H's.

Shapo’s backhand is knowhere near a strength. It’s prone to breaking down with numerous shanks. Gasquet and Thiem need to stay 10 feet back in order to time their strokes which is a disadvantage. Nobody with a one hander hits as well as Zverev and Djokovic from that side. The modern game is all about consistency which is why the two hander reigns supreme nowadays. It’s sad because thenone hander is much more beautiful shot and requires more talent and strength.

 

[socallefty]

If you can combine a good 1HBH slice with a solid 2HBH, it seems like the best of all worlds. Not coincidentally, that’s how most of the ATP tour plays. It is telling that guys like Federer and Thiem with outstanding 1HBHs have commented that they would teach their kids or other players a 2HBH - they seem to feel that the harder journey to develop a world-class 1HBH drive that matures later at the junior level is not worth the aggravation to stand up against the best 2HBHs. I agree with posters that it is much easier to be an elite BH returner at the ATP level with a 2HBH and that’s probably its biggest advantage. Maybe we will see players in the future with a 2HBH return, 1HBH drive and 1HBH slice as the game continues to evolve and players get taller.

 

[Red Rick]

Seriously people going 'fast court = single handed backhand' after seeing Thiem, Wawrinka and Tsitsipas make me sad that if I bash my head against a wall at some point death will stop me from bashing my head against a wall the appropriate amount of times.

 

[Bambooman]

Will we ever see a tennis player who often switches from one handed to two handed depending on what's most comfortable or effective for a particular shot?

Sure, you can watch me or my son play. Also in the past Rios would pound a one hander on the run when necessary.

Why more don't have this option is odd imo.

 

[Kralingen]

Will we ever see a tennis player who often switches from one handed to two handed depending on what's most comfortable or effective for a particular shot?

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

Ok Tsonga's 1hbh is basically a bailout shot. He's really not that good on either BH.

 

[1HBHFTW]

Seriously people going 'fast court = single handed backhand' after seeing Thiem, Wawrinka and Tsitsipas make me sad that if I bash my head against a wall at some point death will stop me from bashing my head against a wall the appropriate amount of times.

Think anyone who says this is mostly just thinking of Fed, but he’s an outlier.

 

[Booger]

Seriously people going 'fast court = single handed backhand' after seeing Thiem, Wawrinka and Tsitsipas make me sad that if I bash my head against a wall at some point death will stop me from bashing my head against a wall the appropriate amount of times.

I don't think it automatically favors OHBH's, but it does hurt the guys like Djokovic and 80% of tour which are Djoko clones from camping 6 feet behind the baseline and rallying everything back.

Maybe serve and volley players could come back. Maybe other attacking one handers would be more successful. But the way the courts are now, pretty much the only way to win consistently is as a baseline grinder with a 2 handed WTA shovel backhand.

 

[Fabresque]

Tsitsipas is walking proof of this.

One thing to have a weak backhand, another to have an unstable backhand. Two handers will always be sturdy and tough to break down. One handers can be, but more often than not, they’re easier to break down.

 

[d-quik]

Seriously people going 'fast court = single handed backhand' after seeing Thiem, Wawrinka and Tsitsipas make me sad that if I bash my head against a wall at some point death will stop me from bashing my head against a wall the appropriate amount of times.

Kuerten and muster no slouches on the dirt either

 

[1HBHFTW]

Tsitsipas is walking proof of this.

One thing to have a weak backhand, another to have an unstable backhand. Two handers will always be sturdy and tough to break down. One handers can be, but more often than not, they’re easier to break down.

Walking proof of what? That OHBH is a disadvantage?

seems tough to say #3 player in the world having a OHBH is proof it’s bad. I admit his backhand is a weakness, but when he’s not shanking it he is able to hit heavy spin deep to set up his FH.

he kind of supports my argument IMO. Even a weaker 1H can be used as a weapon much easier than a weak 2H.

 

[Headhunter_Tennis]

1BH looks stylish and classy but it is rubbish in the era of slow courts + Nadal, sorry to say that Rafael Nadal shown how he can bully someone's backhand in this era with significant advantage in footspeed.

Today a 2BH is the right weapon to have no flaws on both wings....

 

[Kralingen]

Every single player from the '80s and '90s except possibly Edberg would have been better if they had Agassi or Mecir's backhand.

Is this a true statement or not?

 

[1HBHFTW]

1BH looks stylish and classy but it is rubbish in the era of slow courts + Nadal, sorry to say that Rafael Nadal shown how he can bully someone's backhand in this era with significant advantage in footspeed.

Today a 2BH is the right weapon to have no flaws on both wings....

Ok yes a 1H is really unfortunate to have if you’re on clay playing a lefty who hits 3200 RPM forehands at it. That doesn’t happen in most of your matches though

 

[nolefam_2024]

Zverev seems like wielding 2 catanas from both wings. His backhand is deadly. Slowest courts also be can easily hit winner on that end. And he can do the same on indoor hard low bouncing surface. His slices are above average. Don't even bounce off. So with a dhbh nowadays there is almost no weakness.