Yeah but on the other hand Roddick’s serve was way better than what Murray’s would ever be, so his better return would have been averaged out. There is no way to tell whether he would have done better, he would have been better than Rod on the return but I highly doubt that his serve is strong enough to only get broken once by Fed in what would equal seven sets.
It could/should've been a routine straight set win if the cocaine kiss didn't choke imo. Murray didn't panic and was mentally rock solid, so kudos to him, but his level at the tournament is overrated and I agree with you.
Federer 09 vs Murray 13 at Wimbledon 10 match series?
I'm surprised you haven't thought of it yet RS.
Even better.
LOLIf Andy is Randy does Roger also live up to his name?
Neither have you. You’ve been talking purely in hypotheticals.
Not parroting my own sentence back to me would be a start…
You're forgetting that Federer loves serves with pace, not so much heavier, slower ones. On a day like that where his backhand was so off, he'd be chipping and giving Murray control of the point from the git go.
1 out of 10 tops, emphasis on tops
Same difference 1/10 tops really almost means 0/10 anyway it's just being a bit generous.
It’s just a cheap, backdoor way of belittling Murray’s achievements because his success (of which there was plenty) in the Big 3 era - for a lot of people on here - dilutes the achievements of the 3 GOAT’s. It makes them look a little fallible which cannot run on TTW, apparently.
It is kinda irrelevant how he does in the Roddick era but it's just the way hypotheicals go that's pretty much never gonna go way.
Yeah please attack every discussion here in TTW involving hypotheticals lol good luck. You cannot tell me even a year in 2003-2011 where it can be reasonably assumed that Murray wins Wimbledon but just simply say it is hypothetical so let’s ignore it altogether. Sure it is, but there are hypotheticals where yiu can make reasonable assumptions based on what actually happened. But I will look out for future posts of yours whether you are so strict on every hypothetical discussion here in the future as well.
I also said where he stands among the ATGs (multiple times actually). If you can’t read it’s your problem.
Look I genuinely don’t care whether you want to engage in further discussions with me lol. Not sure why you brought that even up.
I could understand speculating if they never played in a slam or played only once and it was super close.
2013 final wasn’t really great tbh. Both players had more UE than winners and both in the lower region of 40 % second serve points won. Both players got broken in every set. So if a very mediocre Djoko can break Murray three times why shouldn’t Fed? He never showed much difficulty with Murray’s serve.
LMAO at completely dismissing the reason why Fed was beaten so baldy in that Olympics match, but clearly no agendaBecause you are speaking about hypotheticals that rely on too many variables - it’s a fool’s errand. I will discuss what actually happened.
Roddick, like Murray, had the misfortune of facing GOAT-level competition in the majority of his GS finals. However, Murray broke through against his GOAT nemesis in two of those finals - Roddick did not.
And why did Murray have the capacity to do this? Because he got there more often owing to a higher base (and peak) level of play.
Murray made 10 consecutive QFs or better at Wimbledon. The only two others to do this are Federer and Jimmy Connors. Why do you think that was? Why couldn’t Roddick do this?
If you believe the answer is “Murray has a higher floor, Roddick a higher ceiling” (which I would strongly contest) then how far do you take it? Is Rosol a better player than Murray because of his 2012 “peak” level at Wimbledon…?
Let’s talk facts:
- Murray actually defeated Federer in a Bo5 final on grass while Roger was fresh off a title win that summer.
- A pre-Lendl Murray is 2-1 vs Roddick on grass.
- Murray defeated a previous Wimbledon champion to win his first title at SW19, and someone who’d go on to be arguably the 2nd/3rd best male player in the competition’s history.
———
Based on what we know in objective reality, Murray posted a very high level on grass - beyond Roddick’s in my view.
Murray might well have a higher level than Thomas Johansson at the AO? Should we push Murray’s birthday back to 1975?
Stick to pushing the narrative that Berdych was a bigger threat to the Big 3 in slams than Murray. That’s about the measure of your analysis.
I will take that as 3-4/10.
Murray performed worse at Wimb against worse versions of Fed than Roddick anyway. But people hate hearing that
These two guys can neither read nor can they grasp that if there are multiple matches between two players one can reasonably make assumptions how additional matches would likely play out.
Hewitt also beat Fed in Davis Cup in 2003 on the same court as Rod Laver Arena and we all know how their actual AO match in 2004 went
You are of course right bro but I have told it several times to them even in capital letters. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t force it to drink.
Yeah, like it or not, Murray has done some things that current Alcaraz has not shown the capability for
Old Agassi was tougher for 2004-2012 Fed in slams than Murray. And I am being generous to Murray by including 2011 and 2012 here
Where exactly did anyone say Berd was better than Murray?
Literally no one. Birdman was used as an example of a less quality player than Murray who did better (at Slams) against Big 3 guys.
Murray had to go through frogmen, EC-2 aircraft with satellite tracking and Federer assault choppers up his ass.
LOL. Yeah, I forgot he automatically loses one out of every nine matches, that's not duck walk anymore.
If he is going to complain about draws, Djokovic had a tougher draw than Murray at 2013 Wimb
Of course that’s how you see it since it puts Murray in a good light
So if Murray had beaten Federer in ‘15, he’d have been the favourite to beat Djokovic in that final on account of his 2-0 H2H on Centre Court and 5-0 in sets?
