Is Alcaraz greater than Roddick?

[MeatTornado]

It's been a minute since we had a Holmes Roddick thread

I'm gettin all nostalgic up in here

 

[nolefam_2024]

Alcaraz won Wimbledon beating Djokovic. He has definitely shown higher level than Roddick's best.

 

[Third Serve]

He beat Djokovic in a Slam match, so I guess that qualifies as remotely as good as Djokovic.

Not gonna lie, heatstroke Djokovic was almost as good as the one who showed up to the Wimbledon final last week

 

[Kralingen]

Not gonna lie, heatstroke Djokovic was almost as good as the one who showed up to the Wimbledon final last week

Genuinely good match for the first 3 sets

 

[MisterP]

Roddick won a slam plus that year end number 1 without a functional backhand or the ability to hit a clean volley. That’s gotta be figured into the calculation.

 

[Third Serve]

Genuinely good match for the first 3 sets

hmm, very troubling no?

 

[Sephiroth]

Roddick takes another TTW L.

Always catching strays @TheNachoMan

 

[TheNachoMan]

Always catching strays @TheNachoMan

I already made this thread. I was ahead of the curve.

Alcaraz vs Roddick

Alcaraz: 1 slam 4 masters 1 YE#1 22 weeks at #1 Roddick: 1 slam 5 masters 1 YE#1 13 weeks at #1 Who is better currently?

tt.tennis-warehouse.com

 

[Holmes]

Alcaraz has probably achieved more or at least similar level achievements overall, he is probably ahead in Greatness.

But levelwise, no, roddick has shown higher level of play

What's the punchline?

 

[Holmes]

It's been a minute since we had a Holmes Roddick thread

I'm gettin all nostalgic up in here

Did you think I forgot? Also, make sure you vote in our poll.

 

[CHillTennis]

Alcaraz:
Weeks #1: 30
Year End #1s: 1
Slam titles: 2 (USO 2022 d. Ruud, Wimbledon 2023 d. Djokovic)
Titles: 12

Roddick:
Weeks #1: 13
Year End #1s: 1
Slams: 1 (USO 2003 d. Ferrero)
Titles: 32

Maybe slightly.

Alcaraz is playing in a mug era.

 

[initialize]

Right now they're roughly tied.

Also Alcaraz doesn't have any GOAT tier shot to his name. Yes his strokes are all very good, but he's not the GOAT of something like Roddick was with his GOAT-level serve (especially for Arod's height)

 

[President]

Obvious bait by the OP, but peak Roddick would give Alcaraz fits on hard courts and grass. He could match him forehand to forehand and had that massive serve; no one in the top 10 has anywhere near that pace nowadays. Obviously, Alcaraz is the more well-rounded and better player, but just some food for thought. Don't underestimate Roddick.

 

[The_Order]

Two things:
Had there been hawk-eye technology, Roddick probably wouldn't have won the 2003 US Open.
And the other is that many Djokovic fans consider that his current version is superior to the one shown at the 2007 US Open, for example, which put prime Federer on the ropes, especially in the first two sets from that final.

New user just stirring the pot... realised it yesterday.

 

[Sampras-Bruguera 1993]

Alcaraz won Wimbledon beating Djokovic. He has definitely shown higher level than Roddick's best.

04-05 Roddick easily beats 23 Djoker at Wimbledon. 4 sets max

 

[TMF]

It's still Roddick.

Holmes[Herald] is a former banned poster is intentionally causing trouble and controversy

 

[serbiavic]

Don't like either but it is Alcaraz now but Roddick wins consistency for now.

 

[nolefam_2024]

04-05 Roddick easily beats 23 Djoker at Wimbledon. 4 sets max

Yeah I don't care. The guy has zero Wimbledons. Nole has seven. No excuses.

 

[ghostofMecir]

Thank goodness someone understands the agendas around here.

Pot kettle

 

[Midaso240]

Well, I quite like Roddick so I'll give it to him at this present moment in time. Obviously, should only be a matter of time until Alcaraz moves past him though

 

[bnjkn]

No. Memphis.

 

[SonnyT]

I think this is a conspiracy by Fedfans to make Roddick retroactively look better.

 

[darthrafa]

carlos ends djoker's chance of winning all the 4 slams this year and stopped him equalling fed's 8 at SW19
it has already moved him ahead of andy

 

[Shaolin]

Yes he's already greater.

The only thing people care about is slams and 2>1.

 

[Holmes]

It's still Roddick.

Holmes[Herald] is a former banned poster is intentionally causing trouble and controversy

Don't be silly. If I was banned I couldn't reply to you right now. It's basic lapses in logic like this that are holding you back from contributing to the discourse here on the forum.

 

[abmk]

04-05 Roddick easily beats 23 Djoker at Wimbledon. 4 sets max

So does 03 Roddick and 09 roddick

 

[roysid]

Both have winning h2h over djokovic. But Roddick takes the cake for being hero of Ons Jabeur

 

[Angrybirdstar]

he's not the GOAT of something like Roddick was with his GOAT-level serve (especially for Arod's height)

drop shot and speed, and his return and forehand are already ATG level

 

[Kralingen]

Right now they're roughly tied.

Also Alcaraz doesn't have any GOAT tier shot to his name. Yes his strokes are all very good, but he's not the GOAT of something like Roddick was with his GOAT-level serve (especially for Arod's height)

He might have GOAT drop shots honestly

 

[Alcaraz takeover]

Obvious bait by the OP, but peak Roddick would give Alcaraz fits on hard courts and grass. He could match him forehand to forehand and had that massive serve; no one in the top 10 has anywhere near that pace nowadays. Obviously, Alcaraz is the more well-rounded and better player, but just some food for thought. Don't underestimate Roddick.

Alcaraz has the best drop shot we've ever seen in the history of the game.

 

[Angrybirdstar]

He might have GOAT drop shots honestly

when Alcaraz's Tennis Abstract match charting stats get fixed i will be so annoying about this, but until then more people need to talk about Kei Nishikori's drop shots tbh. i can't find anybody who respects them as much as the stats suggest they should be. winning the point outright on 59% of forehand drop shots with only 12% unforced errors, and then backing that up with a backhand drop shot that's 46%-10%, is just otherworldly. yeah yeah the sample size is only a couple hundred drop shots from a hundredish matches, and it helps that he's an ATG baseliner who doesn't drop shot as much as Alcaraz, but when you look at players like Nadal or Juan Carlos Ferrero, their firepower still doesn't help them get anywhere as much immediate value (~10 % points fewer point winning drop shots on both wings) or keep them from making more errors, especially on the backhand. from what i remember of the stats and from an eye test i think Alcaraz beats Nishikori on the forehand wing but is well behind on the backhand so overall it might even be a tossup.

 

[NonP]

Both have winning h2h over djokovic. But Roddick takes the cake for being hero of Ons Jabeur

Link?

He might have GOAT drop shots honestly

when Alcaraz's Tennis Abstract match charting stats get fixed i will be so annoying about this, but until then more people need to talk about Kei Nishikori's drop shots tbh. i can't find anybody who respects them as much as the stats suggest they should be. winning the point outright on 59% of forehand drop shots with only 12% unforced errors, and then backing that up with a backhand drop shot that's 46%-10%, is just otherworldly. yeah yeah the sample size is only a couple hundred drop shots from a hundredish matches, and it helps that he's an ATG baseliner who doesn't drop shot as much as Alcaraz, but when you look at players like Nadal or Juan Carlos Ferrero, their firepower still doesn't help them get anywhere as much immediate value (~10 % points fewer point winning drop shots on both wings) or keep them from making more errors, especially on the backhand. from what i remember of the stats and from an eye test i think Alcaraz beats Nishikori on the forehand wing but is well behind on the backhand so overall it might even be a tossup.

I seriously doubt any OE guy has/had better droppers than Riggs. Can't be bothered to dig up relevant footage now but when I watch those grainy clips that's what sticks out to moi most about his game, yes even more than his famous lob (which Kramer declared the best ever in his '79 book). Just insane disguise and placement. As good as Carlitos and Kei are I never felt that wow factor from either.

 

[timnz]

Alcaraz:
Weeks #1: 30
Year End #1s: 1
Slam titles: 2 (USO 2022 d. Ruud, Wimbledon 2023 d. Djokovic)
Titles: 12

Roddick:
Weeks #1: 13
Year End #1s: 1
Slams: 1 (USO 2003 d. Ferrero)
Titles: 32

9 years in top ten

 

[Angrybirdstar]

I seriously doubt any OE guy has/had better droppers than Riggs. Can't be bothered to dig up relevant footage now but when I watch those grainy clips that's what sticks out to moi most about his game, yes even more than his famous lob (which Kramer declared the best ever in his '79 book). Just insane disguise and placement. As good as Carlitos and Kei are I never felt that wow factor from either.

yeah this clip blew me away:

i think with Alcaraz i wouldn't point to his disguise with the shot itself so much as his ability to shift mid-rally from generating immense pace to completely swallowing his opponent's, which allows him to reap the positional benefits of his heavy groundstrokes:

found this for Nishikori, i'd have to rewatch more but i think he has a very consistent and replicable motion that isn't significantly benefited in disguise by any slice or power as misdirection:

speaking of lobs, there was a period from Indian Wells to Hamburg last year where Alcaraz was consistently pulling off ridiculous tweener lobs. there's the point with Tsitsipas in Miami,

and Khachanov in particular got destroyed by them in their two matches

 

[Sudacafan]

If we agree that Alcaraz is not greater than Roddick, we should think about asking @Beerus to create a thread titled:
Why Alcaraz will fail in becoming an ATG?

 

[mike danny]

When did Roddick beat anybody even remotely as good as Djokovic in a big Slam match? He did have to deal with prime Federer but the rest of that era (the early years of Roddick) was garbage, relatively.

Not at all. The early Roddick years still had better players than Carlos's era does since Carlos's era has the terrible Next Gen.

And yes, Roddick didn't beat anyone as good as Djokovic in a big slam match, but he never got the chance to, especially since he wasn't gonna get that chance with prime Fed who wasn't 36.

 

[mike danny]

Alcaraz is greater as of now, but I still think Roddick at his best was better on grass.

 

[mike danny]

37 year old way past his prime Djokovic? To win his 2003 US Open title he beat atleast 2 people atleast similarily good (peak Ferrero, peak Nalbandian). And some other slam wins that would be as good or better than a grandpa, way past his prime Djokovic- Murray Wimbledon 2009, Djokovic 2009 Australian Open (which is a better win than beating Djokovic in 2023). And of course was points from beating Federer in Wimbledon 2009 which would be a light years better win than 37 year old Djokovic, LOL!

Ehhh, wouldn't go that far.

 

[xFedal]

I’d rTher have Carlos career now man . Carlos is going to win more slams than Sampras, More USO opens than Djokovic, More French Opens than Djokovic, More Australian opens and wimbledons titles than Nadal . That’s as far as am willing to go as of now for Carlos .

 

[mike danny]

Don't just compare them. Compare Alcaraz to Roddick up to about November 2002. It's only close if:-

(1) You're comparing the kid to a guy who played top-level tennis for 12 years. I love Andy Roddick, my heart broke for him at Wimbledon 2009 just the same as everyone elses did, but he was a one-dimensional powder puff of a tennis player. More mentally stable than Safin, Nalbandian, Davydenko, more physically stable than Hewitt, Nalbandian, Safin, and that was about all he had going for him.

(2) You're not just comparing the two players, but thinking, as we do here, in the context of the three-way dick-measuring contest that every new thread here is actually subtextually about, and it doesn't suit your guys argument to pick Alcaraz over Roddick.

Nah, that's way too harsh. He wasn't Berrettini.

 

[TheNachoMan]

Alcaraz will have seasons in the future that will be better than Roddick’s entire career. It is what it is.

 

[nam416]

Will have to see a pic of Carlitos' girlfriend first, before voting.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

When did Roddick beat anybody even remotely as good as Djokovic in a big Slam match?

When he beat Djokovic I suppose.

 

[RS]

When did Roddick beat anybody even remotely as good as Djokovic in a big Slam match? He did have to deal with prime Federer but the rest of that era (the early years of Roddick) was garbage, relatively.

Murray Wimbledon 2009 SF maybe

 

[Start da Game]

alcaraz has already surpassed roddick at roddick's best slam......who is roddick? onto the next question.....

 

[taster]

what is it with this notion of 'greatness', it's undefined, so no matter how long the debate, it simply can't be resolved, it's pointless.

 

[Turning Pro]

My heart says 2004 Roddick 1st set Wimby......

But my head knows it's Alcaraz period.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

Wut?

Stick around a while.

Eh, it's true. There's a lot of revisionism towards Roddick & Hewitt in particular. Most of it came to diminish Federer's achievements when he was holding the records. But now that Djokovic does, there's no reason for it to go on (at the same time, the likes of Zverev, Medvedev, or Tsitsipas are being made to look worse than they actually are now).

Roddick has a positive H2H vs Djokovic and beat Nadal in two of the three best years of his career. His only big problem was Federer, and yeah, he was terrible vs him, but so were Ferrer, Davydenko, Wawrinka and Hewitt (bar early years) among others.

 

[RS]

Eh, it's true. There's a lot of revisionism towards Roddick & Hewitt in particular. Most of it came to diminish Federer's achievements when he was holding the records. But now that Djokovic does, there's no reason for it to go on (at the same time, the likes of Zverev, Medvedev, or Tsitsipas are being made to look worse than they actually are now).

Roddick has a positive H2H vs Djokovic and beat Nadal in two of the three best years of his career. His only big problem was Federer, and yeah, he was terrible vs him, but so were Ferrer, Davydenko, Wawrinka and Hewitt (bar early years) among others.

They are closer to Roddick and Hewitt than some people think. And Thiem for a few years or so.

 

[reaper]

Alcaraz isn't greater than Roddick yet, though he will very likely be in the future.
Roddick's prime level clearly better at Wim/USO/AO so far.
Alcaraz only at RG.

Roddick couldn't even do backhand.