Is Alcaraz greater than Roddick?

[reaper]

he very well could and did. though Roddick BH wasn't very good, it wasn't as bad as made out by some here.
Every point in my previous post remains,.

Roddick's about equal to Lleyton Hewitt as a player from that era. Head for head was 7-7 between those 2. Neither is remotely in Alcaraz's league.

 

[abmk]

Roddick's about equal to Lleyton Hewitt as a player from that era. Head for head was 7-7 between those 2. Neither is remotely in Alcaraz's league.

Both Hewitt and Roddick clearly better at their prime than Alcaraz's level so far - at AO, at Wim, at USO. Alcaraz only at FO.
Alcaraz of course has the potential to exceed them, but he hasn't done it yet level wise.

 

[Sudacafan]

Roddick is better than any player born after the 90's except for Alcaraz as of now.
Still to be confirmed for Rune, depending on how his career develops.

 

[Holmes]

Both Hewitt and Roddick clearly better at their prime than Alcaraz's level so far - at AO, at Wim, at USO. Alcaraz only at FO.
Alcaraz of course has the potential to exceed them, but he hasn't done it yet level wise.

Don't be silly. Roddick could only dream of putting on a performance like Alcaraz's at Wimbledon. Everything - everything hinged on the serve for him. Once Novak got a read on his serve, he'd be toast. With a far less effective serve Carlos was able to beat Novak through a combination of movement, shot selection, mental strength, groundstroking and execution of a level beyond Roddick's dreams, let alone Hewitt's whose inclusion in this conversation about peak Wimbledon levels was I'm assuming a joke.

It will be fun to bump this thread in a year or two's time.

 

[mike danny]

Roddick is better than any player born after the 90's except for Alcaraz as of now.
Still to be confirmed for Rune, depending on how his career develops.

Glad that someone gets it.

 

[mike danny]

Roddick's about equal to Lleyton Hewitt as a player from that era. Head for head was 7-7 between those 2. Neither is remotely in Alcaraz's league.

Roddick at his best on grass was better than current Alcaraz. We'll talk more in a few years.

 

[TMF]

Don't be silly. Roddick could only dream of putting on a performance like Alcaraz's at Wimbledon. Everything - everything hinged on the serve for him. Once Novak got a read on his serve, he'd be toast. With a far less effective serve Carlos was able to beat Novak through a combination of movement, shot selection, mental strength, groundstroking and execution of a level beyond Roddick's dreams, let alone Hewitt's whose inclusion in this conversation about peak Wimbledon levels I'm assuming was a joke.

It will be fun to bump this thread in a year or two's time.

Don't be so ignorant.

Roddick face the grass GOAT Federer who as at the peak of his power. Alcaraz has who? Old fart at 36 years who's like 10 years past his best.

Typical Herald

 

[Holmes]

Don't be so ignorant.

Roddick face the grass GOAT Federer who as at the peak of his power. Alcaraz has who? Old fart at 36 years who's like 10 years past his best.

Typical Herald

Roddick lost every match against the best grasscourter of his generation, including one that was all but his for the taking. In terms of results, he and the world no. 1000 had everything in common: a column of straight Ls.

Alcaraz at the meager age of 20 beat his generational grasscourt great who was 3-1 against Roddick's. In other words, Roddick's chances against Alcaraz are infinitely less than infinitesimal, a new number that expands our notions of nothing, as well as the immensity of our gratitude for having exited the Stone Age of Roddick being the greatest grass court threat come July.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

Don't be silly. Roddick could only dream of putting on a performance like Alcaraz's at Wimbledon. Everything - everything hinged on the serve for him. Once Novak got a read on his serve, he'd be toast. With a far less effective serve Carlos was able to beat Novak through a combination of movement, shot selection, mental strength, groundstroking and execution of a level beyond Roddick's dreams, let alone Hewitt's whose inclusion in this conversation about peak Wimbledon levels I'm assuming was a joke.

It will be fun to bump this thread in a year or two's time.

Roddick won EIGHT sets in a row vs Djokovic. And most of those weren't tie-breaks either, so it's not like he couldn't break Djokovic at all to say once his serve was returned he was toast.

And yeah, not prime/peak or whatever but Djokovic was consistently top 3 at the time, had won a slam and made a final, and had several wins over Fedal, etc. Federer and Nadal weren't even close to winning so many sets in a row vs him so he wasn't bad at all at the time.

And Hewitt was owning PETE so he surely can't be that bad either.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Haha Hewitt and Roddick were lucky they were part of the transitional era.

 

[Holmes]

Roddick won EIGHT sets in a row vs Djokovic. And most of those weren't tie-breaks either, so it's not like he couldn't break Djokovic at all to say once his serve was returned he was toast.

And yeah, not prime/peak or whatever but Djokovic was consistently top 3 at the time, had won a slam and made a final, and had several wins over Fedal, etc. Federer and Nadal weren't even close to winning so many sets in a row vs him so he wasn't bad at all at the time.

And Hewitt was owning PETE so he surely can't be that bad either.

Who won the last Djokovic v Roddick match? Granted it doesn't count of course.

 

[Eureka]

“male player“

Yes indeed. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[FeroBango]

“male player“

Rune concurs.

 

[MrFlip]

No. Roddick has 1 slam which is > 2

 

[insideoutforehands]

Both Hewitt and Roddick clearly better at their prime than Alcaraz's level so far - at AO, at Wim, at USO. Alcaraz only at FO.
Alcaraz of course has the potential to exceed them, but he hasn't done it yet level wise.

I mostly agree with this but the thing is the FO or clay gap is enormous, even compared to Hewitt who is clearly the better clay courter of Hewitt/Roddick. And it is considerably bigger than the gap at any other venue already IMO. To think of a parallel example Nadal is behind many greats on any surface but clay. Heck you could even argue Becker is better than him on every surface but clay. Not sure I would agree, I think Nadal is very likely equal or better on hard courts, but you could atleast make the argument.

Which makes it a hard choice even right now.

 

[reaper]

Both Hewitt and Roddick clearly better at their prime than Alcaraz's level so far - at AO, at Wim, at USO. Alcaraz only at FO.
Alcaraz of course has the potential to exceed them, but he hasn't done it yet level wise.

I'm sure Lleyton would appreciate the compliment. I'm less sure that he would believe it.

 

[abmk]

I mostly agree with this but the thing is the FO or clay gap is enormous, even compared to Hewitt who is clearly the better clay courter of Hewitt/Roddick. And it is considerably bigger than the gap at any other venue already IMO. To think of a parallel example Nadal is behind many greats on any surface but clay. Heck you could even argue Becker is better than him on every surface but clay. Not sure I would agree, I think Nadal is very likely equal or better on hard courts, but you could atleast make the argument.

Which makes it a hard choice even right now.

Nadal surely is better than Becker on HC, especially at USO.
nadal isn't a parallel example for clay either. he has 14 frickin RGs and undisputed GOAT on that surface.
Alcaraz hasn't even made a RG final yet.
It'd be hard IF Alcaraz had won RG this year (and not won Wimbledon).

 

[abmk]

I'm sure Lleyton would appreciate the compliment. I'm less sure that he would believe it.

just stating reality of level.
Hewitt's prime level is better than Alcaraz at 3 of the 4 slams (&YEC).
Alcaraz has potential to surpass him obviously, but he hasn't yet.
Not sure what is so tough to understand or believe about the above.

 

[reaper]

just stating reality of level.
Hewitt's prime level is better than Alcaraz at 3 of the 4 slams (&YEC).
Alcaraz has potential to surpass him obviously, but he hasn't yet.
Not sure what is so tough to understand or believe about

Like most unsubstantiated assertions that one was easily understood.

 

[MissileBackHand99]

Yes. I think his game is better than Roddick's (Roddick never really improved his backhand) and Carlito's mental toughness is superior. I think if Roddick had kept Brad Gilbert as his coach, his game would've kept evolving and he would've gotten more big wins at Slams than he did

 

[abmk]

Like most unsubstantiated assertions that one was easily understood.

what I said obvious to anyone who followed tennis at Hewitt's prime.
hewitt's level at AO 05/04/03 > alcaraz's at AO 22
hewitt's level at Wim 02/04/05 (and arguably Wim 09) > Alcaraz in Wim 23
hewitt's level at USO 01/02/04 (before final)/05 > Alcaraz's in USO 22
hence Hewitt's prime level at those 3 slams > Alcaraz's so far.

if you don't know ask politely
if you have a proper point to make/substantiate, do it.
stop making snide comments.

 

[RS]

Somebody make a case Hewitt RG 06 was equal o better Alcaraz RG 22/23 with no injury please

and he would have been in RG 07/09/10 if Nadal wasn't there

 

[reaper]

what I said obvious to anyone who followed tennis at Hewitt's prime.
hewitt's level at AO 05/04/03 > alcaraz's at AO 22
hewitt's level at Wim 02/04/05 (and arguably Wim 09) > Alcaraz in Wim 23
hewitt's level at USO 01/02/04 (before final)/05 > Alcaraz's in USO 22
hence Hewitt's prime level at those 3 slams > Alcaraz's so far.

if you don't know ask politely
if you have a proper point to make/substantiate, do it.
stop making snide comments.

You're yet to substantiate a solitary point of your own.

 

[abmk]

You're yet to substantiate a solitary point of your own.

I already did. I'm very nicely asking you again to stop making snide comments.
if you don't know ask politely.
if you have a proper point to make/substantiate, do it.

 

[reaper]

I already did. I'm very nicely asking you again to stop making snide comments.
if you don't know ask politely.
if you have a proper point to make/substantiate, do it.

Alcaraz is twice the player Roddick ever was.

 

[abmk]

Alcaraz is twice the player Roddick ever was.

he isn't better yet. But sure as hell hope Alcaraz does become that - for the sake of tennis. We've had way too many years of mediocrity.

 

[insideoutforehands]

Nadal surely is better than Becker on HC, especially at USO.
nadal isn't a parallel example for clay either. he has 14 frickin RGs and undisputed GOAT on that surface.
Alcaraz hasn't even made a RG final yet.
It'd be hard IF Alcaraz had won RG this year (and not won Wimbledon).

Well I mean it is relative. Of course Alcarez is nowhere near Nadal on clay yet (probably never), but I am comparing him to Hewitt and Roddick who are far below contenders level on clay, particularly Roddick. Alcrarez is still by a huge margin better than both on clay already, regardless that he hasn't reached a RG final. And it is probably already a bigger gap than the gaps at Wimbledon and US Open combined, even though I agree with you thus far Hewitt and Roddick are better in both (playing level wise), but I think in terms of gaps it is already at a point it is much smaller anywhere else than the clay gap is. Australia he hasn't even played at since becoming a contender starting last spring.

Regarding Becker, yeah I agree Nadal is better on hard courts, I was just saying some would probably say Becker is better on any non clay surface (even though I would strongly disagree). Or for a better example many more would say Connors is better on every non clay surface, and in that case I in fact might agree. Nadal's absolute peak might be better on grass, hard to compare when Connors played on real grass and Nadal played on rye grass that Connors probably would have loved, but taking into account their whole careers Connors is possibly better on grass too. McEnroe is another you could argue is better than Nadal on every non clay surface, and probably an even stronger one as more would agree Mcenroe > Nadal on hard courts than Connors > Nadal on grass. And of course Sampras is someone who is clearly considered superior to Nadal on every non clay surface, but would be impossible to rate him higher at this point.

 

[PerilousPear]

Alcaraz first needs to be 0-8 against someone at slams before we can begin to compare him to LOLdick.

 

[abmk]

Well I mean it is relative. Of course Alcarez is nowhere near Nadal on clay yet (probably never), but I am comparing him to Hewitt and Roddick who are far below contenders level on clay, particularly Roddick. Alcrarez is still by a huge margin better than both on clay already, regardless that he hasn't reached a RG final. And it is probably already a bigger gap than the gaps at Wimbledon and US Open combined, even though I agree with you thus far Hewitt and Roddick are better in both (playing level wise), but I think in terms of gaps it is already at a point it is much smaller anywhere else than the clay gap is. Australia he hasn't even played at since becoming a contender starting last spring.

Regarding Becker, yeah I agree Nadal is better on hard courts, I was just saying some would probably say Becker is better on any non clay surface (even though I would strongly disagree). Or for a better example many more would say Connors is better on every non clay surface, and in that case I in fact might agree. Nadal's absolute peak might be better on grass, hard to compare when Connors played on real grass and Nadal played on rye grass that Connors probably would have loved, but taking into account their whole careers Connors is possibly better on grass too. McEnroe is another you could argue is better than Nadal on every non clay surface, and probably an even stronger one as more would agree Mcenroe > Nadal on hard courts than Connors > Nadal on grass. And of course Sampras is someone who is clearly considered superior to Nadal on every non clay surface, but would be impossible to rate him higher at this point.

yes, but Alcaraz hasn't translated that potential/level at RG yet.
Nadal's level on clay is immense AND he has translated that so many times at RG.
not the same case.
That's why I said if Alcaraz won RG and not Wim, then I'd consider it as debatable.

 

[insideoutforehands]

yes, but Alcaraz hasn't translated that potential/level at RG yet.
Nadal's level on clay is immense AND he has translated that so many times at RG.
not the same case.
That's why I said if Alcaraz won RG and not Wim, then I'd consider it as debatable.

Fair enough. I do get your logic here for sure when you put it that way. I think you understand what I was trying to say as well.

And yes Alcarez has not translated his overall clay level to RG yet at all. It is still higher than anything Roddick or Hewitt has produced at RG, but not that high come to think of it some more. This year was super dissapointing, cramps aside. Last year was even pretty dissapointing given his pre RG level too.

 

[tacotanium]

You don't know until Alcaraz retires. It's hard to compare a full career to a starting career.

 

[Holmes]

You don't know until Alcaraz retires. It's hard to compare a full career to a starting career.

When the starting career is already superior to the entire career there's no need to wait.

 

[tacotanium]

When the starting career is already superior to the entire career there's no need to wait.

What stats are those?

 

[Holmes]

Thought we could revisit this inspiring conversation. What do we think folks?

 

[Holmes]

Obviously there’s only one answer to this one.

But Roddick was a pretty fiery young prospect himself, winning USO and YE #1 at age 20 similar to Carlos. And then having a pretty strong sophomore season in 04 with that mythical Wimbledon level.

We’ll see whether Carlos fires Ferrero at the end of 2023 and hires a coach to make his FH a loopy mess and teach him to hit awful backhand approach shots then randomly rush the net like a total clown. If he does that, maybe they end up equals.

Thoughts now?

 

[Kralingen]

Thoughts now?

Still time in 2024 for Carlos to fire Ferrero and fulfill the Roddick prophecy. We await with bated breath. I will say, him winning over Sinner (the eminent Federer stand in for this era) in Indian Wells is a promising sign.

 

[RS]

One more slam and I take him over both Roddick and Hewitt.

 

[Holmes]

Still time in 2024 for Carlos to fire Ferrero and fulfill the Roddick prophecy. We await with bated breath. I will say, him winning over Sinner (the eminent Federer stand in for this era) in Indian Wells is a promising sign.

You refer to the prophecy of the One who will bring balance to the Game? You believe it to be this...boy?