Is Djokovic an ATG on grass?

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Bionic Poster
#52
Should have had one last year but he let it slip.
Actually, I think that was the 2nd time he let slip a Queen's final. Back in 2008 he was a set and a break up against Nadal (if I'm recalling correctly) and let that one slip away too.

But 4 Wimbledon titles certainly puts him on the most titled players' list so I would say that's makes him an ATG on grass.
 
#54
Djokovic beat Federer in two Wimbledon finals. Would that be the same Federer that holds the record for winning most Wimbledon men's singles titles? Yes it would! Do you realise how ridiculous you sound!
Djokovic's wins versus federer do little to add to djokovics legacy. Firstly because federer has beaten Djokovic around 25 times himself. Secondly because federer is a weak era champion so beating him does not enhance your resume. Djokovic also fared very poorly in the weak era 2004-2010 himself by only winning 1 slam and having a losing h2h vs even weak era mugs such as safin and roddick and fed and ned. However that is a story for anouther day. Bottom line. Novak only beat weak era champions to get to 4 wimbeldons
 
#56
A leading candidate for most absurd statement I have ever read on tennis warehouse.
Djokovic is a weak era champion. Deal with it. Djokovic fans have already done so by admitting Federer is a weak era champion and Djokovic has inflated his career beating this weak era champion (and also being beaten by him 25 times). We have made our peace, make yours. Djokovic adjusted total slam count: 4
 
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#61
Actually, I think that was the 2nd time he let slip a Queen's final. Back in 2008 he was a set and a break up against Nadal (if I'm recalling correctly) and let that one slip away too.
I think Nadal won that Queens title in a very tight straight setter. Something like 7-5, 7-6 over Djoker.
 

thrust

Hall of Fame
#64
Not sure what his exact point was, but it could have been either: 1) Laver actually won 9 Majors on grass; or 2) who knows how many Wimbledons he would have won if he had been allowed to play it his whole career.[/QUO
This is also true with Gonzalez, Hoad, Sedgman and Rosewall.
 
#67
If you win a major 3 times, your in the conversation as an ATG at that event. Once you win 4, it gets really hard to deny the obvious. Djoker is a Wimbledon ATG. Which I guess means he's an ATG on grass, since there's only one grass event that means a damn at this point.
 
#75
Yes, he has won 4 at Wimbledon. If you can read, it says specifically "Wimbledon champions".
Laver couldn't compete between 63 and 67, so he was probably robbed of several titles.

After winning his third title, he had already become an ATG on grass to me. Not to mention that he managed to defend a title, which is always a tough task because the player is expected to repeat the success from the year before.
 
#76
Laver couldn't compete between 63 and 67, so he was probably robbed of several titles.

After winning his third title, he had already become an ATG on grass to me. Not to mention that he managed to defend a title, which is always a tough task because the player is expected to repeat the success from the year before.
I know that. But all I can do is post the correct number. I can't give him imaginary titles.
 
#78
Thiem would never have held RG if he played 06 or 07 Nadal, or 18 or 19 Nadal. Irrelevant. Federer destroyed Murray in 2015 and everybody else but Novak was just better. End of discussion.
Destroying Murray in a slam is hardly a great achievement. Using your logic we can say Djokovic was destroying everybody in RG this year but Thiem is just the better player on clay right now. Federer being a much better player in 2006-2008 than in 2014-2015 is simply a fact. Nobody is saying it is Djokovic's fault. It's just that Djokovic fans can never admit that his competition might not be the greatest ever.
 
#83
How can a player with 4 Wimbledon titles not be considered an ATG on grass?! Having said that I'm not sure I'd place him inside the top 5 for the Open era as I consider Federer, Sampras, Borg, Becker and McEnroe to be greater than him(Laver too if we go even further back).
Djokovic is an ATG on grass, 4 Wimbledon titles is more than enough to earn that status. If he were to win a 5th and beat Federer in the final the bigger question is who is better on grass Federer or Djokovic.

You see it comes back to the point I keep making and would be re-inforced if Djokovic beats Federer in another final. The bulk of Federer's success came before peak Nadal and Djokovic arrived and if Djokovic is 3-1 h2h v Federer with 5 Wimbledon titles I think it makes it an interesting debate.
 
#84
Destroying Murray in a slam is hardly a great achievement. Using your logic we can say Djokovic was destroying everybody in RG this year but Thiem is just the better player on clay right now. Federer being a much better player in 2006-2008 than in 2014-2015 is simply a fact. Nobody is saying it is Djokovic's fault. It's just that Djokovic fans can never admit that his competition might not be the greatest ever.
Djokovic won Wimbledon 4 different times and beat the best players on grass to get them everytime. End of discussion. Irrelevant if Federer was better in 2006-2008. He was still among the top two players on grass in 2014 and 2015, and Djokovic won fair and square.
 
#85
Djokovic won Wimbledon 4 different times and beat the best players on grass to get them everytime. End of discussion. Irrelevant if Federer was better in 2006-2008. He was still among the top two players on grass in 2014 and 2015, and Djokovic won fair and square.
I'm not questioning Djokovic's titles. What I do say is that Djokovic fans don't want to hear anything when one mentions Thiem leading the head to head against him in RG. Djokovic was past his prime, terrible conditions which somehow didn't effect Thiem's game and so on. Yet when it comes to Djokovic beating long past his prime Federer it is somehow irrelevant, Djokovic is just the better player on grass.
 
#86
I'm not questioning Djokovic's titles. What I do say is that Djokovic fans don't want to hear anything when one mentions Thiem leading the head to head against him in RG. Djokovic was past his prime, terrible conditions which somehow didn't effect Thiem's game and so on. Yet when it comes to Djokovic beating long past his prime Federer it is somehow irrelevant, Djokovic is just the better player on grass.
So what if Thiem leads the head to head against him at RG? He beat Djokovic in 2017 when he was struggling. No one weighs that win with any significance. This year is a good win for him but that one could have gone either way, and I also never blamed it on Djokovic being past his prime. You also have never heard me say Djokovic is an overall better player on grass than Federer so stop the nonsense. You're talking out of the side of your neck. Point is, Djokovic won his titles by beating the best players at that time.
 
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#87
So what if Thiem leads the head to head against him at RG? He beat Djokovic in 2017 when he was struggling. No one weighs that win with any significance. This year is a good win for him but that one could have gone either way, and I also never blamed it on Djokovic being pass his prime. You also have never heard me say Djokovic is an overall better player on grass than Federer so stop the nonsense. You're talking out of the side of your neck. Point is, Djokovic won his titles by beating the best players at that time.
I do mention it every time when I see a Djokovic fan hyping his "win" over Nadal in RG 2015.
As for beating the best players at the time-alright, so what better player could Nadal face when he won USO 2010 and 2013? Djokovic would beat any other player in the draw both times. That never stops Federer and Djokovic fans from bringing these Nadal's victories down. I just don't like double standards. There is a difference between beating the best player at the time and having great competition. (though 2013 Djokovic>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2015 Federer)
 

Pheasant

Hall of Fame
#88
How can this can this be a serious question? The guy won 4 titles, including back-to-back in 2014-15 against the undisputed grass court GOAT.

How do people define ATG at an event? I think that 3 slam titles at a single event gets you there, no matter what. Examples there are Nadal and Djoker at the USO and Kuerten on clay.
 

thrust

Hall of Fame
#89
Yes, he has won 4 at Wimbledon. If you can read, it says specifically "Wimbledon champions".
From what I have seen and read, grass court tennis is very different from what it was till the late nineties, which is why players like Nadal, Novak and Murray were able to win multiple Wimbledons. Federer, due to his great volleying skills would have fared well on grass as it was before 2000, Nadal and Novak with there game styles today, would not.
 
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