Is Djokovic deserving of pity?

Fedforever

Hall of Fame
You're right, it was around 2015. A few things changed between the young Djokovic (who came within a few votes of knocking Federer off for FanFav in 2011 IIRC) and the later version:
- Started playing more conservative "boring" tennis. Young Nole was much more of a pure aggressive baseliner from the Agassi/Safin school. Over time he became more serve-reliant and content with waiting for errors.
- Started beating up on Federer consistently. Before, it was more of an even matchup and Djokovic would always need to play his heart out for his wins. Then Fed got older and Djokovic got more confident against him.
- Toned down his off court personality to become more PR-friendly. The public got to see less of the unfiltered off-court Djoker.

There were still times after that when he was just as revered as the other 2, though. Especially during his 2018 comeback. I think W18 was truly a high point for him and everyone involved.
I've always been frustrated because I actually quite like him and think he has been unfairly treated at times. The Australian Open social media oppos have sometimes acted like a Fedal fan account and that has felt disrespectful when you consider Djoko is their record holder. I loved his tennis in 2011 even though he was beating Fed.

But last couple of years I've just got tired of the unpleasantness of his father, the weird paranoia of a few of his fans, the obsessive gloating over 40/15. These things shouldn't affect your view of a person but in the end they probably do.

On the good side, on another tennis forum someone started a thread saying that as a Novak fan he'd expected Fedals to make his life a misery the last couple of days but wanted to thank them for being classy. I thought that was really nice. And a lot replied that they'd actually quite wanted to see history made even though it would have given Novak the record. Maybe we'll all start being a bit kinder.
 
Anyone who regularly smashes his or her racquet out of frustration cannot be considered the GOAT. Losing control is loser behavior. Though I haven't been a fan of Nadal's due to his superstitions and rituals (ridiculous), I consider him to be the GOAT. If Federer had a 2 hander he would be up there with Nadal in my book.
 

Fedforever

Hall of Fame
How can anybody pity a guy who has won as much as he has and who is the undisputed number #1 player in the world?

So he couldn't quite pull off the CYGS but he has still won 4 Slams in a row which is almost the same. Few players have ever achieved that.

He worries too much about being loved. He should settle for fear and respect like other past tennis greats have done.
Andy is a good example of how Novak's family and team should have handled things. He's mellowed over the years but he's still himself. He never demanded we all like him - he's just let it happen naturally over the years.

I don't think people outside the UK realise how much he is loved here now - they probably think he's still that "whinging Scot" to us all.
 

ffw2

Semi-Pro
Andy is a good example of how Novak's family and team should have handled things. He's mellowed over the years but he's still himself. He never demanded we all like him - he's just let it happen naturally over the years.

I don't think people outside the UK realise how much he is loved here now - they probably think he's still that "whinging Scot" to us all.
Andy Murray's a role model? :unsure:
 

davced1

Hall of Fame
It's just his playstyle. Every shot seems exactly measured in required speed, spin and placement. It's incredibly effective, but leaves little room for improvisation, flair and entertainment.

His technique is usually great, but that gets overshadowed by his style.

I've often called Djok boring, but I remember I used to watch many of his matches from 2008-2011.
After that it just became too bland for me.
Same for me. He was not boring at all until he perfected that gamestyle you mention. I feel he became more and more a defensive player over the years too.
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
I've always been frustrated because I actually quite like him and think he has been unfairly treated at times. The Australian Open social media oppos have sometimes acted like a Fedal fan account and that has felt disrespectful when you consider Djoko is their record holder. I loved his tennis in 2011 even though he was beating Fed.

But last couple of years I've just got tired of the unpleasantness of his father, the weird paranoia of a few of his fans, the obsessive gloating over 40/15. These things shouldn't affect your view of a person but in the end they probably do.

On the good side, on another tennis forum someone started a thread saying that as a Novak fan he'd expected Fedals to make his life a misery the last couple of days but wanted to thank them for being classy. I thought that was really nice. And a lot replied that they'd actually quite wanted to see history made even though it would have given Novak the record. Maybe we'll all start being a bit kinder.
The Big 3 war seems to be largely over. It's becoming Fedalovic vs the new guard now.

The obsessive gloating over 40/15.
Sorry not sorry :cool:
Saving match points against Federer was and will forever be epic, and I think the fanbase deserves to never stop talking about it. Just as I can't fault the Fed fanbase for constantly making AO17 tribute vids (as annoying as it can get).
 

Devtennis01

G.O.A.T.
Why did you post that crap of post anyway ?No more fake friends to give you likes. So basically if Nole should be kicked you are in green, but when someone exposes you, nobody to pat you on the head :laughing:
Figures
:-D:laughing::-D
You really are tooooo much. I am not explaining anything to you. Stay pressed bro.
 

Robert C

New User
Hes not the bad guy, hes just not so ejoyable to watch, and that shows us that not always the perfect technique wins, people dont like that, also, he is not very charismatic, but hes dominating tennis and we should accept that, what boris cant ask to tje people is that they like him, we can respect his game and his wins, but a lot of people apreciate other things in tennis too, so to answer the question, no hedoesnt deserve pitty, just respect for what hes done
Ha, he’s more charismatic than 99.9% of people, certainly much more so than Nadal. The issue is with his on court gestures and mannerisms and his style of play - it’s nowhere as well liked as Federer and Nadal.
 

R. Schweikart

Professional
Boris Becker thinks so.

"It is not acceptable that Novak is always the bad guy and Roger and Nadal are always the good guys - that is unfair," opines the massive-elbowed German.


No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity.
But I know none, and therefore am no beast.
 

Fedforever

Hall of Fame
The Big 3 war seems to be largely over. It's becoming Fedalovic vs the new guard now.


Sorry not sorry :cool:
Saving match points against Federer was and will forever be epic, and I think the fanbase deserves to never stop talking about it. Just as I can't fault the Fed fanbase for constantly making AO17 tribute vids (as annoying as it can get).
I think there's a difference between Nole fans celebrating it as a great win for Novak and those using it as a weapon just to hurt Fed fans. When it was being brought up on threads or videos where it had no relevance simply because someone had spotted a place where Fed fans congregate then it only had one purpose.
 

OhYes

Legend
I think there's a difference between Nole fans celebrating it as a great win for Novak and those using it as a weapon just to hurt Fed fans. When it was being brought up on threads or videos where it had no relevance simply because someone had spotted a place where Fed fans congregate then it only had one purpose.
Remember FO 2011 fingerwag ?
Gifs, images, with only one purpose.
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
I think there's a difference between Nole fans celebrating it as a great win for Novak and those using it as a weapon just to hurt Fed fans. When it was being brought up on threads or videos where it had no relevance simply because someone had spotted a place where Fed fans congregate then it only had one purpose.
I always thought of it as "your guy might have all the records, Slams, dominance, etc but we have that one legendary comeback win and we will never stop talking about it"
 
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Fedforever

Hall of Fame
Remember FO 2011 fingerwag ?
Gifs, images, with only one purpose.
If you don't think the 40/15 thing is often used for the sole purpose of hurting people then I suppose you don't. Sometimes it's used as part of a general to and fro but very often it isn't.
 

Fedforever

Hall of Fame
I always thought of it as "your guy might have all the records, Slams, dominance, etc but we have that one legendary comeback win"
In which case I guess it won't be around so much once Novak has all the numbers.

As you are apparently not on my Ignore list you presumably have not used it in a deliberately hurtful way yourself!
 

StringGuruMRT

Semi-Pro
There's few thing more annoying in the tennis world atm than Becker's constant simping and brown-nosing when it comes to Djoker.

Did Djoker pay off all of his debt and now he's obliged to be his hype man? I get that he was his coach but this is something else.
Boris is my all time fave, but he craves the attention that he gets, and its never enough for him.
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
In which case I guess it won't be around so much once Novak has all the numbers.

As you are apparently not on my Ignore list you presumably have not used it in a deliberately hurtful way yourself!
Many a chokin' have I seen,
Some expected, some unforeseen
But never one quite as pristine
As 8-7 40-15.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Now he's had a heartbreaking loss....
How is a straight-set shellacking a heartbreaking loss? 40-15 is the very personification of a heartbreaking loss. Novak never was in the match from the first game and was simply outplayed on that day. He never came close to even winning a set. Fed getting blow off the court at 2008 FO wasn't a heartbreaking loss either. Those are reserved for extremely close, tight matches, not a blow out.
 

Clay lover

Hall of Fame
What has fans done to him beyond booing him or rooting for the opponent which they mostly have done out of support for the underdog?

It's not nearly as emotional an affair as Djoko or Becker is making it out to be. No one has the obligation to love you or not dislike you, especially when that dislike is not even on a personal level - sportsmen get booed all the time and it wasn't like it was Hingis-level bullying.

And I'm not even at the part where we talk about whether he deserves it or not.
 

ffw2

Semi-Pro
Crazy thing about it all is when these dudes finally—mercifully—exit stage left, the drop-off in engaging tennis/theater is going to be staggering.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Thanks for that, fedfosterwallace, but is that big "F" in your avatar something really rude?

Crazy thing about it all is when these dudes finally—mercifully—exit stage left, the drop-off in engaging tennis/theater is going to be staggering.
 

ffw2

Semi-Pro
Does F stand for Fascist? You certainly come across as, at the very least, an avatard censor.
If you were to be, hypothetically, banned... what would be your new avatar?

If you went sans avatar, you'd be a big "B." Not nearly as provocative as a Communist star, right?
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Everyone already thinks I'm a "BIG B" so there's no need to advertise.

If you were to be, hypothetically, banned... what would be your new avatar?

If you went sans avatar, you'd be a big "B." Not nearly as provocative as a Communist star, right?
 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
You also make incessant obiter dicta comments, but you've deleted the evidence.

What on earth are you confessing to?

Other than politicizing a tennis message board for nearly 16 years and getting away with it, of course. :sneaky:
 
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TopspintheTerrible

Professional
Pity? No. Dude has an amazing life.

As a tennis fan, I felt bad for him when he became emotional during the 3rd set. It was kinda poetic or somethin.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Yes, this thread is designed to encourage the usual Djokovic pile-on, unfortunately. When a man is down, kick him!
 

Fxanimator1

Hall of Fame
He is reaping what he has sown.

And it is not just his antics, but his whole camp and family create all the drama and dislike. It isn't just a few things, but a career of it, including and up to the racquet smashing, yelling around, and even mishaps like throat conking a line judge, but doing so in an angry moment. His appeal just is not there, so no...I don't have pity for who he is. Fact is (unfortunately, I suppose), he is the third wheel to one of the greatest rivalries of tennis between two gracious, respected, and mannered champions ever, so he will never pierce that veil or move out of that far reaching shadow.

As far as crying and the pressure, he was sure quick to comment around the hot topic at the Olympic on "pressure being a privilege", and was quite smug in the timing of it with Biles and Osaka. He got a big head and too much confidence, then folded worse than either Biles or Osaka, threw tantrums, and it was pretty much the same at the USO. Still not seeing anything to pity or feeling sorry for.

His actions through his career have not been acceptable for those used to higher caliber champsions, so fair is fair I guess.
This was perfectly worded and a painful truth.
 

Fxanimator1

Hall of Fame
Yes, this thread is designed to encourage the usual Djokovic pile-on, unfortunately. When a man is down, kick him!
He’s down? Really? He lives in Monaco. He’s richer and more famous than all of the posters on this board, but you say he’s “down”.
Get a grip!
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Federer is a tad arrogant and Nadal is a tad disrespectful. Djokovic is a tad kooky.

Pity needs to be shown really to viewers of Nadal matches who routinely spend thirty minutes watching him procratinate to steal an advantage!
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
What has fans done to him beyond booing him or rooting for the opponent which they mostly have done out of support for the underdog?

It's not nearly as emotional an affair as Djoko or Becker is making it out to be. No one has the obligation to love you or not dislike you, especially when that dislike is not even on a personal level - sportsmen get booed all the time and it wasn't like it was Hingis-level bullying.

And I'm not even at the part where we talk about whether he deserves it or not.
Well, it's not anyone's fault. Djokovic is the type of player who lives for the crowd reactions and connecting with fans, and he didn't get that in the last couple years. This time he might've lost the title but he won the one thing that perhaps he needed most - 23,000 fans cheering as one, willing him to fight. That's the moment I think we all realized that Rolex commercial might've been right - sometimes there's more to this sport than just numbers.
 

Fedinkum

Legend
Boris wants his old boss back.

Beside, no one dictates who is or isn’t the good/bad guy. May be you can argue that the media and report shouls be more neutral but when it comes to crowd support, you are what you deserve.
 

Fedforever

Hall of Fame
How is a straight-set shellacking a heartbreaking loss? 40-15 is the very personification of a heartbreaking loss. Novak never was in the match from the first game and was simply outplayed on that day. He never came close to even winning a set. Fed getting blow off the court at 2008 FO wasn't a heartbreaking loss either. Those are reserved for extremely close, tight matches, not a blow out.
That may be different from the perspective of a player and a fan.

When Federer was interviewed for the "Strokes of Genius" doc he was wincing when talking about FO 08 as if he was in physical pain. When he's spoken about W19 he's always been quite calm.

I also heard him asked how he'd felt about the match in the weeks afterwards and his answer was something like "not too bad, my team protected me from the way people were feeling about it."
 
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