Is Djokovic More Talented Than Nadal?

Clay lover said:
Raw speed is not the only measure of athleticism. Good reflexes are very important too and I think Nadal has tons of it.
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Obviously not, but you want to do the ruler-reflex test? I still don't think Nadal would have the fastest reflexes on tour.

Again, I never said Nadal wasn't athletic or wasn't talented. They are all athletic and talented or they wouldn't be top 5 players. We're talking at a level where any marginal difference in talent or ability can mean all the difference.

That's where Nadal's mental advantage plays a big factor. It's not an indictment of Nadal.
 
djokovic could imitate other players but nadal could not.
thus djokovic is more talented than nadal :D
 
How talented we think one is, is pretty subjective. I don't think there's a way to measure who's more talented than someone else. Nadal and Djokovic are both talented.
 
I don't think he's more talented because part of talent is the mind that uses it, and the landfill of tennis history is heaped with talent unused by the mind that directed it. Nadal's mental talent is a large part of what has made him No. 1 in the World.
 
TheTruth said:
How talented we think one is, is pretty subjective. I don't think there's a way to measure who's more talented than someone else. Nadal and Djokovic are both talented.
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Me said:
I don't think anyone said that Nadal isn't talented. He's clearly very talented.
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No one said otherwise.

No, there isn't a way to discretely "measure" talent, and there is a level of subjectivity. There's also subjectivity in measuring intelligence. But I think it's pretty fair to say that someone like Marilyn vos Savant is a smarter than the average English teacher. The game comes more easily for Djokovic. He's nowhere near Nadal's conditioning and mental game, and he's still able to play very well on all surfaces.

Nadal's clearly a much harder worker and he's made visible strides in his game. Djokovic, not so much.

But as they say, hard work often trumps talent.
 
Gemini said:
I think Nadal and Djokovic are equally talented but Nadal's much more athletic. Because Nadal's game is built around one primary aspect and his game plan is nearly the same from match to match, it makes him seem less talented because doesn't show a lot of variety.
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not really, hes found a style that decimates 99% of the tour, so hes sticking with it
why would you switch your style up if its winning slams on pretty much all surfaces for you?
 
ChanceEncounter said:
No one said otherwise.

No, there isn't a way to discretely "measure" talent, and there is a level of subjectivity. There's also subjectivity in measuring intelligence. But I think it's pretty fair to say that someone like Marilyn vos Savant is a smarter than the average English teacher. The game comes more easily for Djokovic. He's nowhere near Nadal's conditioning and mental game, and he's still able to play very well on all surfaces.

Nadal's clearly a much harder worker and he's made visible strides in his game. Djokovic, not so much.

But as they say, hard work often trumps talent.
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Agree. People are putting way too much emphasis on the mental game and results. Sure Nadal has much better credentials than Djokovic but from a pure talent standpoint, I'd much rather have Djokovic's game over Nadal's.

This reminds me of the Federer vs. Nadal talent thread that went on forever. Federer and Djokovic are both slightly more talented IMO.
 
Federer and Djokovic both slightly more talented? LOL! Federer is way more talented than Djokovic, so they both cant be the same relative to Nadal, whatever that is.
 
Ripster said:
Agree. People are putting way too much emphasis on the mental game and results. Sure Nadal has much better credentials than Djokovic but from a pure talent standpoint, I'd much rather have Djokovic's game over Nadal's.

This reminds me of the Federer vs. Nadal talent thread that went on forever. Federer and Djokovic are both slightly more talented IMO.
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More talented but lose all the time--care to re-define your assessment here? I mean how can one be more talented and lose all the time?!?!?!?!
 
Ripster is a Djokovic fanatic. I remember some of his posts from the year end Masters in November and they were downright hilarious.
 
Talent and success don't always come hand and hand. Take Nalbandian, loads of talent, never won a slam. I think Djokovic has more natural talent than Nadal, he has more weapons, and an overall better game. However I feel Nadal is far superior to him. Nadal is a better player than him. Nadal works at it more, and has a lot more heart than Djokovic. Nadal is more mature and does not "choke" or give in. Nadal is mentally superior to Djokovic. Sure Djokovic I feel has more talent and more skill tennis wise, but I don't think he will ever be on Nadal's level as he does not use it to his potential and he never will because he will never be mentally strong enough as a player.
 
saram said:
More talented but lose all the time--care to re-define your assessment here? I mean how can one be more talented and lose all the time?!?!?!?!
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Djokovic has won some of their meetings so he doesn't lose all the time to Nadal. I'm simply agreeing with chanceencounter's statement that hard work trumps talent a lot of the time.
 
flying24 said:
Ripster is a Djokovic fanatic. I remember some of his posts from the year end Masters in November and they were downright hilarious.
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It's downright hilarious that you're bring this up given your comments and the fact that Djokovic ended up winning the tournament.
 
The only 2 recent players with more talent than Nadal IMO are Federer and Safin. That is it. Djokovic having more talent than Nadal makes me laugh.
 
Ripster said:
Djokovic has won some of their meetings so he doesn't lose all the time to Nadal. I'm simply agreeing with chanceencounter's statement that hard work trumps talent a lot of the time.
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Djokovic, has a horrible record against Nadal and Federer. Djokovic can't even establish a winning h2h against Nadal on hard courts.
 
thalivest said:
The only 2 recent players with more talent than Nadal IMO are Federer and Safin. That is it. Djokovic having more talent than Nadal makes me laugh.
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I would actually say the only one with more 'given talent' than Rafa is Roger. Safin has the potential to have more talent--but never showed it outside of a couple of hot streaks. Rafa, even though less 'talented' than Roger--has twice the 'winner's mentality' than Roger. Rafa just finds a way to win regardless and that is what I love about him. I don't like his strokes in any way--but his desire and heart are un-matched in the last decade.
 
saram said:
I would actually say the only one with more 'given talent' than Rafa is Roger. Safin has the potential to have more talent--but never showed it outside of a couple of hot streaks. Rafa, even though less 'talented' than Roger--has twice the 'winner's mentality' than Roger. Rafa just finds a way to win regardless and that is what I love about him. I don't like his strokes in any way--but his desire and heart are un-matched in the last decade.
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I agree on all you said.
 
thalivest said:
I agree on all you said.
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Rafa really is a winner in all aspects. He is humble, genuine, sincere, and has the heart of a lion--if not more. He is not arrogant, tips his hat to Roger and acknowledges what Roger has done in the last decade--yet trumps it all with heart and vigor.

Some people suggest I don't like Rafa on this board--but that is not true. I just don't like the biased fan-base that represents him here.

But if I had to pick one player on the ATP to go into battle with me--I'd take Rafa 8 days a week. He's a champion, warrior--and fighter.
 
Rafa is way more talented than Roger. His results, his early start, his mastery of three surfaces suggest this. This is not a subjective opinion but based on real, actual results. IMO!
 
Its not an absurd thought to think that Djoko has more talent than Rafa, i am not saying i agree but he does posses some great qualities that one may argue in his defense. To me the most talented player is still Nalbandian
 
TheTruth said:
Rafa is way more talented than Roger. His results, his early start, his mastery of three surfaces suggest this. This is not a subjective opinion but based on real, actual results. IMO!
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See, this is what I mean about the fan-base being biased. Reading some of the comments is like pulling teeth without novocaine.
 
TheTruth said:
Rafa is way more talented than Roger. His results, his early start, his mastery of three surfaces suggest this. This is not a subjective opinion but based on real, actual results. IMO!
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You can't be "IMO" and claim that it's not "subjective." Rafa's results speak for themselves. But many of these results come from the fact that he's such a hard worker and is willing to put in the time to improve his game. He's not stubborn like Federer where he wants to beat people his way all the time. Rafa knows when he needs to make adjustments and he works on them continuously.

I don't understand some Nadal fans. No one is diminishing Rafa's accomplishments by saying that there are more talented players on tour (there are). It's not a backhanded insult to claim that Rafa wins because of his mental game. It's just the way it is.

Some fans seem to act like Nadal has to be the most talented guy to ever pick up a racket, and he has the best mental game in sports history. If this was the case, he would never lose a match. :rolleyes:
 
ESP#1 said:
Its not an absurd thought to think that Djoko has more talent than Rafa, i am not saying i agree but he does posses some great qualities that one may argue in his defense. To me the most talented player is still Nalbandian
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Novak has the skills to be #1 in the world--just like Marat, Nalby, Murray, etc. They just are so inconsistent...
 
TheTruth said:
Rafa is way more talented than Roger. His results, his early start, his mastery of three surfaces suggest this. This is not a subjective opinion but based on real, actual results. IMO!
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What does IMO stand for? I seem to be a bit confused
 
joker has a better backhand and backhand return, but Nadal is a better more talented player and a more instinctive player.
 
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TheRealTruth said:
I don't agree Nadal has better dropshots than Djokovic, true he execute them well most of the time but that's due to the nature of his game, consistency, which Novak lacks. Djokovic makes his signature backhand dropshots from the baseline which is technically more difficult to execute than Nadal's forehand only inside the service line dropshots.
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Nadal attempts and executes on both backhand and forehand drop shots, djokovic only really hits backhand dropshots. I agree that djokovic tries to hit harder dropshots but even taking that into account nadal just has a lot better feel for the ball.

Are we forgetting the impossible banana shots that he hits on clay and that he pulled off against verdasco at the AO? How about that shoestring passing shot against Mahut at queens a couple of years ago? How about the slide, shovel-lob, with his back to the net orver djokovic's head at hamburg 08? There is the slide, backhand dink past a flailing federer in the final game at hamburg 08; How about all those perfectly placed first shots against a federer at the net that result in the 2nd shot being an easy winner.

The list just goes on and on and on imo. In the hands/feel/ball control department nadal is a lot better.
 
lawrence said:
not really, hes found a style that decimates 99% of the tour, so hes sticking with it
why would you switch your style up if its winning slams on pretty much all surfaces for you?
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What are you saying "Not Really" to? The fact that I said that Nadal is more athletic than Djokovic? I think the majority of people would definitely agree with me based on the ridiculous (amazing) defense that Nadal plays which often results in setting up his offense.

No where in my statements did I say that Nadal should change his style of play but only mentioned that because Nadal plays a game built around one major aspect that he appears less talented. Djokovic on the other hand is more likely mix in a variety of shots and when he's hitting them it looks like he might be more talented because he possesses greater variety.

I agree with you when you say that shouldn't change a style that's going to get you the win against just about anyone you play.
 
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thalivest said:
The only 2 recent players with more talent than Nadal IMO are Federer and Safin. That is it. Djokovic having more talent than Nadal makes me laugh.
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I would put Nalbandian above Nadal in terms of pure ball striking capability. However, he's always too fat.
 
anointedone said:
I am still trying to decide how talented Gulbis and Cilic are. Too early to tell I guess. I think Del Potro is overrated though.
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If we're talking about pure tennis ability, Gulbis by far is way better than those 3. However, he's too hot and cold like Safin. Cilic to a degree is the same way also.



Del Potro is talented for sure, but he's abit one dimensional compared to Gulbis and Cilic. However, he's consistent and that's why he is where he is now.
 
NamRanger said:
If we're talking about pure tennis ability, Gulbis by far is way better than those 3. However, he's too hot and cold like Safin. Cilic to a degree is the same way also.



Del Potro is talented for sure, but he's abit one dimensional compared to Gulbis and Cilic. However, he's consistent and that's why he is where he is now.
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Del Potro just seems to have one game. When he runs into someone who can either shut it down (Federer in Australia) or do it better (Berdych last fall in a match) he looks like a fish out of sea. It is a bit amazing he is even in the top 10 considering but as you said he is consistent. I laughed when so many people were calling him the unofficial #5 at one point last year though. Yeah he had a great summer while people were away at the Olympics for much of it (he had a win over Roddick, but mostly nothing else that big). He still has alot more to prove, other than he is a consistent solid player who can do well when able to play his game vs opponents.

I agree Gulbis is wildly inconsistent. I am kind of waiting for him to show the ability to play more percentage tennis and adapt when things are not working.
 
saram said:
See, this is what I mean about the fan-base being biased. Reading some of the comments is like pulling teeth without novocaine.
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I feel you, but it seems it's ok to say Roger is more talented and that's supposed to be a given? I happen not to agree. I think Rafa is more talented, he just has a game that we haven't seen before. That to me makes him even more talented. It's a kind of an paradox I think. "Roger is more talented", but let's watch Rafa beat him most of the time without having an ounce of talent.
 
ChanceEncounter said:
You can't be "IMO" and claim that it's not "subjective." Rafa's results speak for themselves. But many of these results come from the fact that he's such a hard worker and is willing to put in the time to improve his game. He's not stubborn like Federer where he wants to beat people his way all the time. Rafa knows when he needs to make adjustments and he works on them continuously.

I don't understand some Nadal fans. No one is diminishing Rafa's accomplishments by saying that there are more talented players on tour (there are). It's not a backhanded insult to claim that Rafa wins because of his mental game. It's just the way it is.

Some fans seem to act like Nadal has to be the most talented guy to ever pick up a racket, and he has the best mental game in sports history. If this was the case, he would never lose a match. :rolleyes:
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The IMO is based on how I view the results. My opinion is still subjective. All opinions are. Maybe I didn't word it clearly, but I still believe in what I said.
 
TheTruth said:
I feel you, but it seems it's ok to say Roger is more talented and that's supposed to be a given? I happen not to agree. I think Rafa is more talented, he just has a game that we haven't seen before. That to me makes him even more talented. It's a kind of an paradox I think. "Roger is more talented", but let's watch Rafa beat him most of the time without having an ounce of talent.
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I have to agree. Many people on these forums call Nadal a far inferior tennis player, with little to no talent.



What does that make Federer then? A player with supposedly infinite talent, being beaten by a one dimensional, no to little talent player?
 
coloskier said:
After Djokovic getting straight setted by Ferrer today, I think the OP is a little ahead of himself.
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How was I ahead of myself? Did you even read my OP at all?:rolleyes:

TheRealTruth said:
I know many people say Djokovic has more talent, has better serve and touch than Nadal, Nadal is just mentally more tough. But I think Nadal is actually more talented because he learnt to play with his unnatural hand. What do you think?
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Djoker plays more on smarts that Muscle, Nadal is more muscle than smarts.

Djoker is more talented in tennis terms. Nadal is talented in staying extremely focus and a high degree of will power.
 
TheTruth said:
I feel you, but it seems it's ok to say Roger is more talented and that's supposed to be a given? I happen not to agree. I think Rafa is more talented, he just has a game that we haven't seen before. That to me makes him even more talented. It's a kind of an paradox I think. "Roger is more talented", but let's watch Rafa beat him most of the time without having an ounce of talent.
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It's not a "paradox" at all. You should look up the definition of that word.

Again, because talent never implies results. It doesn't imply playing level. It doesn't even mean skill or ability. It means "talent." As I said, the most talented player in the universe would not win a point if he just stands there. Not unless he's some alien race that can repel balls back to the opponent's side of the court just by his mere presence.

I can flip the same scenario back to Nadal fans. Again, if Rafa has more talent than anyone, and he's also much stronger mentally, how come anyone can beat him at all, ever? There's obviously players out there with similar or greater talent.
 
OddJack said:
Djoker plays more on smarts that Muscle, Nadal is more muscle than smarts.

Djoker is more talented in tennis terms. Nadal is talented in staying extremely focus and a high degree of will power.
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Ridiculous comments. Nadal plays the percentages while Djokovic gets impatient and loses many points due to this.
 
I guess it depends on what you define as being "talented". The ability and willingness to put in the hard miles in practice can be considered talent as well. Nadal has that in spades, and for some, like Ferrer, it's their primary talent.
 
Is Djokovic more talented than Nadal?

Answer: No...I mean right now Nadal is more talented because of his level of fitness but I think he is going to break down pretty soon for obvious reasons and then maybe Djokovic might become more talented...but until he breaks down, Nadal is definitely the more talented player!
 
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