Is Djokovic still the #2 guy on hard courts?

G

geromino

Semi-Pro
Obviously Sinner is clear at this point on HC but Djokovic seems to still be the #2 at HC slams. Injured Djokovic beat Alcaraz earlier this year at the AO well into in his grandfatherhood and holds a 3-0 record against Alcaraz on HC.
 
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Current Alcaraz is barely top 5 on hard courts.

0 HC Masters Finals (let alone wins) in last 365 days
0 HC Slam SFs since USO ‘23
2 HC titles (Beijing and Rotterdam)

Last 4 HC Slam appearances: QF loss to Djokovic in 4, 2nd round loss to Botic in 3, QF loss to Zverev in 4, SF loss to Medvedev in 4.

Those are simply embarrassing, humiliating results and if any other player had them no one would take them seriously as a top hardcourter.

His HC game has regressed massively with Beijing 2024 being this one shining outlier amongst the rubble of crap he has put forth on hard courts since winning USO 2022. Of course he has the talent to outplay anyone on HC but under Ferrero he has not shown any consistency or resilience whatsoever on hards. These results are frankly unacceptable.
 
The order goes as such:

  1. Francis Tiafoe (condition: must be at US Open and Michelle Obama must be in attendance)
  2. Jannik Sinner (likely moreso at the AO because Alcaraz never really gets ready at the beginning of the year and is lackluster at the AO)
  3. Carlos Alcaraz - I expect him and Sinner to play at the USO finals this year, Alcaraz wins if Emma Raducanu is in attendance)
  4. Nick Kyrgios (if you count the food court at the US Open)
  5. Actually gonna put Coco Gauff here if and only if it's the US Open and J. Biebs is in attendance wearing Kurt Cobain sunglasses with a ski jacket
  6. Sascha Zverev - let's see what Tone Loc Nadal can do, expect good things!
  7. Djokovic
So you see by all rationale, Djokovic is pretty far behind when talking hard courts and considering the USO, since it's the next slam.
 
Kralingen said:
Current Alcaraz is barely top 5 on hard courts.

0 HC Masters Finals (let alone wins) in last 365 days
0 HC Slam SFs since USO ‘23
2 HC titles (Beijing and Rotterdam)

Last 4 HC Slam appearances: QF loss to Djokovic in 4, 2nd round loss to Botic in 3, QF loss to Zverev in 4, SF loss to Medvedev in 4.

Those are simply embarrassing, humiliating results and if any other player had them no one would take them seriously as a top hardcourter.

His HC game has regressed massively with Beijing 2024 being this one shining outlier amongst the rubble of crap he has put forth on hard courts since winning USO 2022. Of course he has the talent to outplay anyone on HC but under Ferrero he has not shown any consistency or resilience whatsoever on hards. These results are frankly unacceptable.
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Alcaraz has just turned 22, the beginning of his prime.
From now on, he should have better results on hard courts and fight for major titles on that surface.
:D
 
On good day he might tied with Alcaraz in 2nd. However, Novak is very up and down now and us open is the most likely slam he could lose early in.

A lot of players we will fancy their chances of beating the fossilised Djokovic now.
 
Yep. Djokovic had a poor loss to Popyrin at the USO but other than that he lost to Sinner at the AO last year and was injured this year after beating Alcaraz. And won both HC slams in 2023.

Alcaraz didn't have many impressive wins on HC slams since USO 2022 and when he won that one he had to save MPs.

Djokovic also won 2 HC slams since Alcaraz's sole slam title on the surface.

Nonetheless, I back Alcaraz far more than Djokovic to beat Sinner at this point (though I wouldn't bet on any of them). But if the Italian is out, right now Djokovic has a case at being the top favorite on the HC slams.
 
Djokovic_is_the_best#1 said:
On good day he might tied with Alcaraz in 2nd. However, Novak is very up and down now and us open is the most likely slam he could lose early in.

A lot of players we will fancy their chances of beating the fossilised Djokovic now.
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That being said the only guy who has been able to beat him in a slam this year is Sinner, apart from his DNF against Zverev (which was likely going to be a loss, but whilst injured).
 
Kralingen said:
Current Alcaraz is barely top 5 on hard courts.

0 HC Masters Finals (let alone wins) in last 365 days
0 HC Slam SFs since USO ‘23
2 HC titles (Beijing and Rotterdam)

Last 4 HC Slam appearances: QF loss to Djokovic in 4, 2nd round loss to Botic in 3, QF loss to Zverev in 4, SF loss to Medvedev in 4.

Those are simply embarrassing, humiliating results and if any other player had them no one would take them seriously as a top hardcourter.

His HC game has regressed massively with Beijing 2024 being this one shining outlier amongst the rubble of crap he has put forth on hard courts since winning USO 2022. Of course he has the talent to outplay anyone on HC but under Ferrero he has not shown any consistency or resilience whatsoever on hards. These results are frankly unacceptable.
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It’s nice to see that you’ve moved from Medvedev to Ferrero
 
Tennfan123 said:
No. 3.
Federer won five in a row.
Djokovic couldn’t defend the title even once.
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Fascinating how your “let’s bring up Federer everywhere no matter the topic” approach leads you to post this, indicating you didn’t read or spend time trying to understand what the thread is about
 
The guy hasn't won a title on hard since 2023. He went 16-5 last year and is 12-5 so far this year. That's 73.7% in the last year and a half. Two top-ten wins (though a very good one at the Australian this year over Alcaraz). Would be a bit sad if those are the stats of the number 2 guy on hard courts... but maybe they are lol. Zverev might have it statistically, with a win in Paris and a run to the AO final, but he's dropped off big time since January. Alcaraz has some strong runs on the surface but also plenty of poor losses and mediocre slam results of late. Fritz? A couple big runner-up finishes (US Open, Turin).

Man, the top hard courters are really out of form outside of Sinner. No consistency whatsoever.
 
Kralingen said:
Current Alcaraz is barely top 5 on hard courts.

0 HC Masters Finals (let alone wins) in last 365 days
0 HC Slam SFs since USO ‘23
2 HC titles (Beijing and Rotterdam)

Last 4 HC Slam appearances: QF loss to Djokovic in 4, 2nd round loss to Botic in 3, QF loss to Zverev in 4, SF loss to Medvedev in 4.

Those are simply embarrassing, humiliating results and if any other player had them no one would take them seriously as a top hardcourter.

His HC game has regressed massively with Beijing 2024 being this one shining outlier amongst the rubble of crap he has put forth on hard courts since winning USO 2022. Of course he has the talent to outplay anyone on HC but under Ferrero he has not shown any consistency or resilience whatsoever on hards. These results are frankly unacceptable.
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Has his game really regressed or was it just never that strong to begin with on the hard courts used at the AO and the USO? He got a huge break when Djokovic didn't play the US Open 2022, and then his draw really opened up for him (Nadal lost early, Meddy lost to Kyrgios, who then lost to Karen, Zverev missed the tournament with injury, Tsitsipas lost in R1, Sinner was a year or so away from hitting his stride). It wasn't easy by any means, but he went five sets three times in a row and the only player he faced ranked in the top 12 was RUDD.

The Calf is certainly a very good player on the courts used at Indian Wells and in Miami, but I think the jury is still out at the US Open and certainly at the Australian Open.

Also, note these things about RUDD's hard-court resume:

1) Apart from at the 2022 US Open, he has never been past R4 of a hard-court slam. (He has made the semis of RG three times).
2) Only one of his 13 career titles is on hard courts. (The other 12 are all on clay).
3) He is trying to sandbag a title in Gstaad this week, where the second seed is Bublik, who is probably not going to be as dangerous on a slow as molasses court as he was in Halle. RUDD's route to the title is: Stricker (he beat him 7-5 7-6 today); J-M. Cerundolo or Goffin; Burrachaga or Buse; Bublik or Etcheverry (the latter of whom has never won a career title). This isn't relevant to my post, but I have been meaning to comment on it somewhere and this felt like no more irrelevant a time than any.
 
helterskelter said:
Has his game really regressed or was it just never that strong to begin with on the hard courts used at the AO and the USO? He got a huge break when Djokovic didn't play the US Open 2022, and then his draw really opened up for him (Nadal lost early, Meddy lost to Kyrgios, who then lost to Karen, Zverev missed the tournament with injury, Tsitsipas lost in R1, Sinner was a year or so away from hitting his stride). It wasn't easy by any means, but he went five sets three times in a row and the only player he faced ranked in the top 12 was RUDD.

The Calf is certainly a very good player on the courts used at Indian Wells and in Miami, but I think the jury is still out at the US Open and certainly at the Australian Open.
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I think he can be really good on hard courts, but Rod Laver Arena just does not suit him one bit. I still believe in him at the USO (to an extent). It's really just the one horrible loss last year to BvdZ. But getting straight-setted by him in the 2R doesn't say much about Alcaraz's abilities on the surface because there's no world where that should happen to a top player. That was just a pure mental loss that tracks with his awful summer post-Olympics where he also went one-and-done in Cincy to Monfils of all people.

And the 2023 SF loss might legitimately be the best match of Medvedev's career. Alcaraz got all the flak for that loss, but Med simply stole that from him. Probably the best returning of his entire life that day.

Hard courts aren't quite natural to him, but he's still really really good on them. And he knows how to beat Sinner on the surface, which is the most important thing in 2025, the rest of the draw doesn't matter much (outside of Djokovic).
 
MeatTornado said:
I think he can be really good on hard courts, but Rod Laver Arena just does not suit him one bit. I still believe in him at the USO (to an extent). It's really just the one horrible loss last year to BvdZ. But getting straight-setted by him in the 2R doesn't say much about Alcaraz's abilities on the surface because there's no world where that should happen to a top player. That was just a pure mental loss that tracks with his awful summer post-Olympics where he also went one-and-done in Cincy to Monfils of all people.

And the 2023 SF loss might legitimately be the best match of Medvedev's career. Alcaraz got all the flak for that loss, but Med simply stole that from him. Probably the best returning of his entire life that day.

Hard courts aren't quite natural to him, but he's still really really good on them. And he knows how to beat Sinner on the surface, which is the most important thing in 2025, the rest of the draw doesn't matter much (outside of Djokovic).
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Well, sure, but that reminds me of a point I meant to mention but forgot to, which is that I'm not convinced Calf was better at US Open 2022 than at US Open 2023. He didn't have to play Meddy in 2022, or any player of his quality (Sinner wasn't there yet).

And I agree about 2024.
 
helterskelter said:
Well, sure, but that reminds me of a point I meant to mention but forgot to, which is that I'm not convinced Calf was better at US Open 2022 than at US Open 2023. He didn't have to play Meddy in 2022, or any player of his quality (Sinner wasn't there yet).

And I agree about 2024.
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Well he certainly could've beaten Med if he was in his draw in 2022, but I get your point.

The USO Med of 2019-21 and 23 are definitely all better than 2022 Ruud or Tiafoe. 22 Sinner up for debate though. He wasn't the guy he is today, but at the time that was the match of his life.
 
helterskelter said:
Well, sure, but that reminds me of a point I meant to mention but forgot to, which is that I'm not convinced Calf was better at US Open 2022 than at US Open 2023. He didn't have to play Meddy in 2022, or any player of his quality (Sinner wasn't there yet).

And I agree about 2024.
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Alcaraz beat Zverev (who beat pre prime Sinner the round before) in straight sets in 2023 at the US Open whereas he needed 5 sets against pre prime Sinner.
 
Cramerica said:
The order goes as such:

  1. Francis Tiafoe (condition: must be at US Open and Michelle Obama must be in attendance)
  2. Jannik Sinner (likely moreso at the AO because Alcaraz never really gets ready at the beginning of the year and is lackluster at the AO)
  3. Carlos Alcaraz - I expect him and Sinner to play at the USO finals this year, Alcaraz wins if Emma Raducanu is in attendance)
  4. Nick Kyrgios (if you count the food court at the US Open)
  5. Actually gonna put Coco Gauff here if and only if it's the US Open and J. Biebs is in attendance wearing Kurt Cobain sunglasses with a ski jacket
  6. Sascha Zverev - let's see what Tone Loc Nadal can do, expect good things!
  7. Djokovic
So you see by all rationale, Djokovic is pretty far behind when talking hard courts and considering the USO, since it's the next slam.
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Ha ha .i like this.
Tiafoe becomes a beast in US Open with all pals from NBA, Baseball etc. Involves the crowd. Its proper bullying if the opposing player is non-american
 
Kralingen said:
Last 4 HC Slam appearances: QF loss to Djokovic in 4, 2nd round loss to Botic in 3, QF loss to Zverev in 4, SF loss to Medvedev in 4.

Those are simply embarrassing, humiliating results and if any other player had them no one would take them seriously as a top hardcourter.
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Those would be pretty good HC slam results for 05-07 peak Nadal.
 
martinezownsclay said:
The thing is Alcarez is more likely to beat Sinner on hard courts than Djokovic is, so you have to take that into account too. Against the rest of the field? Not sure. I think it is close between the two. I am not sure I would back Djokovic to beat Alcarez if they play at the Open either.
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Alcaraz can only beat Sinner on slow HCs. Look at the pace index of the HC wins he's had over Sinner recently. All slower than average on tour.
 
SonnyT said:
Oh yeah, Zverev beat an injured Djokovic at AO! And it took him a tiebreaker to win the first set!

#1-2 are the first one-two at everything tennis related!
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Since RG 2024, Novak has been reportedly injured in 4 out of 6 Slams. Novak losing due to an injury is the normal thing to happen nowadays, so let's not act as if that Zverev's victory was an anomaly.
 
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ChaelAZ said:
No. Alcaraz and others have supplanted Djo.
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When did Carlos Alcaraz ‘supplant’ Djokovic on hard court exactly? I must have missed it.

Was it when he lost to him in 4 in Australia earlier this year, or blew MPs against him in Cincy before failing to reach the Final in Flushing two summers ago? Was it when he got bounced from the 2024 YEC by Ruud? Or was it when he lost in straights to Botic van de Zandschulp in the 2nd round of the USO?
 
Kralingen said:
When did Alcaraz supplant Djokovic on hard court exactly?

Was it when he lost to him in 4 in Australia earlier this year, or blew MPs against him in Cincy before failing to reach the Final in Flushing two summers ago? Was it when he got bounced from the 2024 YEC by Ruud? Or was it when he lost in straights to Botic van de Zandschulp in the 2nd round of the USO?
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In fairness it is not like either have done hardly anything that noteworthy on hard courts since 2023 now. In fact Alcaraz's 2024 Indian Wells title is probably the best performance from either on a hard court since the start of 2024.
 
pierceforehands said:
In fairness it is not like either have done hardly anything that noteworthy on hard courts since 2023 now. In fact Alcaraz's 2024 Indian Wells title is probably the best performance from either on a hard court since the start of 2024.
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Novak’s win at Australia 2025 clearly breaks the tie ahead of Alcaraz. I don’t think there’s any debate for Carlos even being a top 3 HC player in the world in current form. Even Jack Draper has had a better 12 months on HC than young Carlitos.

Ferrero took the youngest HC Slam winner in history and turned him into this. Unforgivable.
 
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