Is djokovic the most complete player in history?

D

dominikk1985

Legend
I'm not saying he is the greatest ever but you have to admit that his game is very complete on all surfaces with no real go to strategy to beat him.

-for example nadal has great defense and also offense if he has time but his pace tolerance is not the greatest (he cannot as easily redirect pace as other guys and can pushed back)

-federer is also great on offense and defense but nadal was able to break down his BH on clay.

-murray has great pace tolerance but is sometimes too passive

-agassi could hit very hard and also tolerate pace but when he was on the run his speed was not the greatest

-sampras had a weak BH


djokovic might not be the greatest in a single category but he can do it all very well:

-tolerate pace (not quite as good as murray but better than nadal and probably even federer)

-great defense and speed

-solid in each stroke, there is no stroke that can break down, no stroke that he cannot handle

-solid offense (not as good as federer of course)

-good early striking skills (not agassi level but very good with both wings)

-solid serve
 
90's Clay said:
No...

Poor net game and can't put overheads away consistently
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maybe but that is a minor part in today's game. also I think his volleys are not that bad. his overheads are below average but in today's game they are not really a big factor, they are not costing him matches usually.

there is not really a way of exploiting his net game as a go to strategy (not sure if fed ever tried to short slice him).

in contrast to that feds BH on clay or nadals pace tolerance on fast courts cost them a lot of matches.
 
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Djokovic's weakness is that he can be worn down with consistency if he doesn't have it all his own way. He is the only player that forces Nadal outside his comfort zone in terms of the rallies, but if Nadal hangs with him and hits some strong blows of his own, Djokovic is more likely to crack first.
 
dominikk1985 said:
I'm not saying he is the greatest ever but you have to admit that his game is very complete on all surfaces with no real go to strategy to beat him.

-for example nadal has great defense and also offense if he has time but his pace tolerance is not the greatest (he cannot as easily redirect pace as other guys and can pushed back)

-federer is also great on offense and defense but nadal was able to break down his BH on clay.

-murray has great pace tolerance but is sometimes too passive

-agassi could hit very hard and also tolerate pace but when he was on the run his speed was not the greatest

-sampras had a weak BH


djokovic might not be the greatest in a single category but he can do it all very well:

-tolerate pace (not quite as good as murray but better than nadal and probably even federer)

-great defense and speed

-solid in each stroke, there is no stroke that can break down, no stroke that he cannot handle

-solid offense (not as good as federer of course)

-good early striking skills (not agassi level but very good with both wings)

-solid serve
Click to expand...

Has he finally learned to hit a volley?
 
tipsa...don'tlikehim! said:
Federer was more complete
Even Murray is (by a small margin) more complete, can volley better.
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when I talked about complete I was not talking so much about having a game with a lot of variety and doing a ton of cool shots but about being unexploitable on every surface.

novak is beatable if you play better than him but unlike fed on clay or nadal on fast courts there is no single go-to strategy to beat him. you just have to be better than him for 4-5 hours.

maybe my words were not chosen well.
 
But Djokovic doesn't win.
6 slam titles does not qualify as winning.
So are you saying being "complete" prevents you from winning?
Plus he can't even smash.
Damn joke.
 
dominikk1985 said:
when I talked about complete I was not talking so much about having a game with a lot of variety and doing a ton of cool shots but about being unexploitable on each surface.

novak is beatable if you play better than him but unlike fed on clay or nadal on fast courts there is no single go to strategy to beat him. you just have to be better than him for 4-5 hours.

maybe my words were not chosen well.
Click to expand...



Novak's game is exploitable on grass though. And probably indoors to (depending on the speed of the surface)

To a lesser extent hes exploitable on clay. I don't think he slides as well nor has the footing on clay that some other past great had. If he did, he probably should have won a French Title already considering all the chances he has had. Especially last year.
 
Djokovic is not the most complete player. Take him away from the baseline and he can't really do that much. His overheads are shoddy and he can't put away a volley without the ball going slow.

Granted, every player has weaknesses, but because of Djokovic's lack of a decent net game, he can't really be "complete." A complete baseliner perhaps, but not overall complete.

As far as the surfaces go, someone already said that grass doesn't work for Djokovic, where the ball stays low a lot and requires a decent net game.
 
Crose said:
If you take the net game out of the picture, then...still no.
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Well, he was very good from the baseline too.

Wilander then? Slams on all surfaces, and that was back when the AO was even faster than Wimbledon. Could play anywhere, and every shot was rock solid. Good mental fortitude and guile as well.
 
dominikk1985 said:
I'm not saying he is the greatest ever but you have to admit that his game is very complete on all surfaces with no real go to strategy to beat him.

-for example nadal has great defense and also offense if he has time but his pace tolerance is not the greatest (he cannot as easily redirect pace as other guys and can pushed back)

-federer is also great on offense and defense but nadal was able to break down his BH on clay.

-murray has great pace tolerance but is sometimes too passive

-agassi could hit very hard and also tolerate pace but when he was on the run his speed was not the greatest

-sampras had a weak BH


djokovic might not be the greatest in a single category but he can do it all very well:

-tolerate pace (not quite as good as murray but better than nadal and probably even federer)

-great defense and speed

-solid in each stroke, there is no stroke that can break down, no stroke that he cannot handle

-solid offense (not as good as federer of course)

-good early striking skills (not agassi level but very good with both wings)

-solid serve
Click to expand...

I've seen many women players hit much better overheads, he smashes like a girl, not good enough to be the very best and hit such lame overheads in a manly one on one game like tennis.
 
Laurie said:
I've seen many women players hit much better overheads, he smashes like a girl, not good enough to be the very best and hit such lame overheads in a manly one on one game like tennis.
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So much hate! You're so mean :roll:

making fun of a great player's overhead smash which is not below average.

Have a nice day.
 
InspectorRacquet said:
Djokovic is not the most complete player. Take him away from the baseline and he can't really do that much. His overheads are shoddy and he can't put away a volley without the ball going slow.

Granted, every player has weaknesses, but because of Djokovic's lack of a decent net game, he can't really be "complete." A complete baseliner perhaps, but not overall complete.

As far as the surfaces go, someone already said that grass doesn't work for Djokovic, where the ball stays low a lot and requires a decent net game.
Click to expand...

That is why he won the Wimbledon and made another final and 3 SFs there :roll: I guess Dustin Brown's grass game is far superior?
 
tipsa...don'tlikehim! said:
Federer was more complete
Even Murray is (by a small margin) more complete, can volley better.
Click to expand...
I'll give you Federer perhaps, but Murray? No. Murray has a lot of the same strengths and weaknesses as Djokovic, but he doesn't have the mental game that Djokovic has. His natural tendency to play passive and not be aggressive when he needs to costs him a lot in my opinion. Djokovic is also a much better competitor than Murray in general. Also, while Murray is a better volleyer than Djokovic, his forehand is not as good. Murray also has a very weak second serve, so there are definitely some weaknesses in his game that can be exploited.
 
Backspin1183 said:
So much hate! You're so mean :roll:

making fun of a great player's overhead smash which is not below average.

Have a nice day.
Click to expand...

Sorry to disappoint you. I wish it was making fun but unfortunately I am quite serious. It really is a poor quality overhead for a player of his standing, he needs to work on that.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Where is Graf=GOAT?
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Graf had a weak backhand. Although her slice was quite good, she hardly ever hit over the backhand and it was very predictable shot, going cross-court like 90% of the time. Monica Seles and Lindsay Davenport were often able to exploit this weakness with their powerful two-handed backhands..
 
Laurie said:
Sorry to disappoint you. I wish it was making fun but unfortunately I am quite serious. It really is a poor quality overhead for a player of his standing, he needs to work on that.
Click to expand...

No need to apologize, Laurie. I think we've all seen how good his overhead smash is.
 
captainbryce said:
Graf had a weak backhand. Although her slice was quite good, she hardly ever hit over the backhand and it was very predictable shot, going cross-court like 90% of the time. Monica Seles and Lindsay Davenport were often able to exploit this weakness with their powerful two-handed backhands..
Click to expand...

Lol I think you and Backspin have misunderstood me. I was referring to the poster Graf=GOAT who I expected to be contributing to this thread straight away with his usual venom toward Djokovic. There's still time though I suppose.....
 
dominikk1985 said:
when I talked about complete I was not talking so much about having a game with a lot of variety and doing a ton of cool shots but about being unexploitable on every surface.

novak is beatable if you play better than him but unlike fed on clay or nadal on fast courts there is no single go-to strategy to beat him. you just have to be better than him for 4-5 hours.

maybe my words were not chosen well.
Click to expand...
The best way to beat Djokovic would be to push him back with powerful shots and not let him get comfortable during the match. You would also need to be able to cover the court well because when under pressure Djokovic comes out with amazing shots.
 
Djokovic is no pusher. Whoever says that has no clue about tennis whatsoever.
Djokovic is offensive minded player and a crafty shotmaker, who also plays excellent defense. That is what makes him a great player.
 
Chico said:
Djokovic is no pusher. Whoever says that has no clue about tennis whatsoever.
Djokovic is offensive minded player and a crafty shotmaker, who also plays excellent defense. That is what makes him a great player.
Click to expand...

yes, he is basically the complete package.

he is not unbeatable but he has no glaring weakness that can be exploited by a single strategy.

his overheads are not really good but also nothing that would cost him matches. djokovic is very stable of both wings in both offense and defense. the only way to beat him is really being better than him for 4+ hours.

it is possible to either outgrind or outhit him but you almost need to be in god mode form to do it. there is just no simple formula like "hit heavy ball to BH" or "take the ball early and bash it hard" against novak.
 
threads of "best of..." "most complete player" "GOAT" aways end like this one. He is not complete and the reasons are listed here. Why people aways want to start general threads like this... something like "is ... a complete player?" is far more adequate.
 
Need some clarification please! There's a former No1. player, currently active, whose nose is so big I could operate my lawn mower there. Who are you referring to?!

:)

Djokovic2011 said:
Djokovic would grind that big nosed ***** into the ground so bad and I would love watching every second of it! :)
Click to expand...
 
Crose said:
Bollettieri's words really don't mean much.
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Well no. Particularly if he's saying Djokovic is the most complete player ever. The man's game is tailor made for this particular era, no doubt, but he is not the most complete player ever. That is crazy talk.
 
Huh? Djokovic is no slouch at generating pace, but surely that isn't a strength in his game, let alone able to do it better than either Fed or Nadal. Fed after all for the longest time gave him the slices that made him have to generate his own pace, which he clearly shows discomfort doing, especially short balls mid-court that he usually ends up dumping into the net. Even Nadal has been doing that loads towards him
 
kiki said:
Boletieri is a long time fake...none, absolutley none of the players he ever coached knew what a good serve, a touch shot or a good volley was.His expertise is about 50% of the game so he is unqualified to judge.
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Crose said:
Bollettieri's words really don't mean much.
Click to expand...

Bollettieri is one of the sports's most well-respected tennis experts http://clubindustry.com/big-time-tennis-legend-visits-small-town-manchester-sea. Therefore, his words mean very, very, very much.

Steve0904 said:
Particularly if he's saying Djokovic is the most complete player ever. The man's game is tailor made for this particular era, no doubt, but he is not the most complete player ever. That is crazy talk.
Click to expand...

Is it a fact or an opinion?
 
no, not at all! he lacks too much versatility to be called the most complete player in history.

now, he very well may be the most (or one of the most) complete baseliners in history! his baseline (including return) game is sublime, on par with Agassi or Connors. he plays amazing defense, which is his normal strategy, but he can also be offensive off the ground, etc...
 
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