Is Djokovic wimbledon 24 draw is the easiest draw ever for him? And on the otherside his main rival has the one of toughest draw ever?

The_Order said:
Well... his path got a little easier now that de minaur has pulled out of the event...

not that he was going to trouble him much anyway...
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Yeah, honestly though, I am more down on Rune. I like him a lot, out of the young guns, I have Rune first, Alcaraz second, Sinner third, Musetti fourth, then the rest. I was hoping he would make this match a battle, just was too flat. I knew Djokovic would be up for it, as he sees Rune as a legit threat, considering their past battles.

Path is easier more from the time spent on court, but he will need to keep the momentum, as he is not playing for another two more days. So a couple of high level practise sets are needed.
 
Hitman said:
Yeah, honestly though, I am more down on Rune. I like him a lot, out of the young guns, I have Rune first, Alcaraz second, Sinner third, Musetti fourth, then the rest. I was hoping he would make this match a battle, just was too flat. I knew Djokovic would be up for it, as he sees Rune as a legit threat, considering their past battles.

Path is easier more from the time spent on court, but he will need to keep the momentum, as he is not playing for another two more days. So a couple of high level practise sets are needed.
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Rune's biggest problem (like most of the young gen these days) is that he hasn't got it right between the ears. One day it might click and we will see him perform to his potential consistently, but his last 12 months have been quite poor to be honest.
 
The_Order said:
Rune's biggest problem (like most of the young gen these days) is that he hasn't got it right between the ears. One day it might click and we will see him perform to his potential consistently, but his last 12 months have been quite poor to be honest.
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I agree. I'm not super high on his level this year, but at RG he showed me something. A couple of great battles, just lost out to Zed in the end. But I also know he likes the big match ups, he has always stepped up against Novak, so was hoping to see some of that grit from him.

Still a bit of soul searching needs to be done, he is far from being a finished product.
 
The_Order said:
Of course that's going to happen...

You're right, you can only beat what's there... which is why what's there has been heavily criticised the last few years... it's been quite bare to say the least...

Alcaraz will need to beat Djok in this year's final without a struggle... if he can't get it done in 4 sets max, then of course people are going to attribute Djok's loss to his age... that's what makes sense...
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I agree. Well said!
 
TripleATeam said:
You could just say "Djokovic own him" for 98% of the tour and you'd be right. If that's a disqualifying factor, then there's no such thing as a tough draw for him.

I swear, y'all want him to go through
R1 Evans
R2 Opelka or another servebot
R3 Draper/Khachanov
R4 Fritz
QF Medvedev
SF Alcaraz
F Sinner

And maybe even that wouldn't be tough in your eyes.
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That would be entertaining, tennis is so monotonous now
 
Subway Tennis said:
I think if Djokovic wins this it’s legit.

He might have had a couple of breaks with the draw but that is offset by the fact that he is literally playing on one leg and 37 years old.

The guy just faced Rune and routined him in straights. He is doing his part to deserve to be in contention here.
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Oh please. Fed in 2019 had to face:
Harris
Clarke (home town fav)
Pouille
Berretini
Nishikori
Nadal
Djokovic

Rune is only better than Clarke in that list.
 
beltsman said:
Oh please. Fed in 2019 had to face:
Harris
Clarke (home town fav)
Pouille
Berretini
Nishikori
Nadal
Djokovic

Rune is only better than Clarke in that list.
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That’s a way tougher draw for sure. No argument there. Fed’s 2017 Wimbledon draw is also underrated but in that case it’s because he had a lame duck opponent in the final. The lead up to the final was actually brutal but Fed just kept routining people in straights.
 
I mean it is what it is at this point, this era is so thin that going back years and years basically every slam has been a one half show. Djokovic winning Wimbledon a few weeks removed from knee surgery will either confirm his GOATness to his followers or once again signal just how dire this era he's been reaping is. The talking points here won't change. Hopefully Alcaraz can repeat last year and all the handwringing will be for nothing. We shall see.
 
NatF said:
I mean it is what it is at this point, this era is so thin that going back years and years basically every slam has been a one half show. Djokovic winning Wimbledon a few weeks removed from knee surgery will either confirm his GOATness to his followers or once again signal just how dire this era he's been reeping is. The talking points here won't change. Hopefully Alcaraz can repeat last year and all the handwringing will be for nothing. We shall see.
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Why are you guys worried though? Alcaraz is a proven great and he beat Djokovic last year. He’s even more experienced now. I don’t understand why Fedsl fans or haters are worried about 37 year old post knee injury. Alcaraz is the chosen one and great on grass.
 
NatF said:
I mean it is what it is at this point, this era is so thin that going back years and years basically every slam has been a one half show. Djokovic winning Wimbledon a few weeks removed from knee surgery will either confirm his GOATness to his followers or once again signal just how dire this era he's been reeping is. The talking points here won't change. Hopefully Alcaraz can repeat last year and all the handwringing will be for nothing. We shall see.
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Wimbledon Odds Alcaraz +110 Djokovic +120 Medvedev +700 Fritz +1200
 
Djokovic_is_the_best#1 said:
Why are you guys worried though? Alcaraz is a proven great and he beat Djokovic last year. He’s even more experienced now. I don’t understand why Fedsl fans or haters are worried about 37 year old post knee injury. Alcaraz is the chosen one and great on grass.
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Alcaraz has a habit of making his life harder than he should. He won last year by the skin of his teeth, Djokovic is worse so in theory Carlos should still win but it's far from a given.
 
Djokovic_is_the_best#1 said:
Why are you guys worried though? Alcaraz is a proven great and he beat Djokovic last year. He’s even more experienced now. I don’t understand why Fedsl fans or haters are worried about 37 year old post knee injury. Alcaraz is the chosen one and great on grass.
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At roughly the same age Fed was losing to players like Anderson, Raonic, and Stakhovsky. then they wonder why Fed couldn‘t win the slam race. so what’s left? Attacking Novak’s competiton. The alternative would be facing reality. And who wants that? :X3:
 
NatF said:
I mean it is what it is at this point, this era is so thin that going back years and years basically every slam has been a one half show. Djokovic winning Wimbledon a few weeks removed from knee surgery will either confirm his GOATness to his followers or once again signal just how dire this era he's been reaping is. The talking points here won't change. Hopefully Alcaraz can repeat last year and all the handwringing will be for nothing. We shall see.
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This feels a bit different to me. It’s not like there aren’t quite a few great players all circulating now. Djokovic might not to play them all but it won’t be his fault, just some wild draw destruction.

If Djokovic has moved heaven and earth to rush his surgery, go through hell in recovery, make the date here and is good enough to get to the final on one leg and win this will feel like a very special one to him and his fans.

I’m a pretty big Djokovic hater and I definitely think this one is legit. Totally different from something like AO 2023. Gotta give him credit if he takes this imo.
 
GabeT said:
Don’t you get tired of repeating the same thing over and over and over?
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People forget that if Djokovic did win this title it would be his first major title with a walkover in it. Nadal had a walkover at USO 2019, and Federer had walkovers at 2004 USO and 2007 Wimbledon.
 
GabeT said:
Don’t you get tired of repeating the same thing over and over and over?
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Its too much for your ego to admit it is the easiest path? Or you will be screaming on sunday how big djokovic is because win with "injury" against top players? Oh well, i know the answer, so you dont need to answer my question :)
 
JFK_32 said:
Its too much for your ego to admit it is the easiest path? Or you will be screaming on sunday how big djokovic is because win with "injury" against top players? Oh well, i know the answer, so you dont need to answer my question :)
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How would you even know what the easiest path is? 2024 W is the equivalent for Federer of 2018 W. Fed was the overwhelming favorite against Anderson (something like 90% voted for him to win in that match thread). And he lost after being up two sets.

we need to stop with this silly debate about easy or hard paths. No one here has any clue.
 
Subway Tennis said:
This feels a bit different to me. It’s not like there aren’t quite a few great players all circulating now. Djokovic might not to play them all but it won’t be his fault, just some wild draw destruction.

If Djokovic has moved heaven and earth to rush his surgery, go through hell in recovery, make the date here and is good enough to get to the final on one leg and win this will feel like a very special one to him and his fans.

I’m a pretty big Djokovic hater and I definitely think this one is legit. Totally different from something like AO 2023. Gotta give him credit if he takes this imo.
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Fair enough, I'm not sold on Sinner and Alcaraz as all that different to whats come before as I think both have benefited hugely from their timing.

Of course I also don't blame Djokovic for his draw, I admittedly just grow weary watching Novak win slams with his C game but perhaps that's better than a sea of Ruud's winning slams.
 
NatF said:
Fair enough, I'm not sold on Sinner and Alcaraz as all that different to whats come before as I think both have benefited hugely from their timing.

Of course I also don't blame Djokovic for his draw, I admittedly just grow weary watching Novak win slams with his C game but perhaps that's better than a sea of Ruud's winning slams.
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I agree about the timing. Definitely better turning 22 in 2024 than 2005!
 
If you have to go through a peaking Alcaraz to win the title then it wasn't an easy draw. You weigh a draw based on the top guy(s) you faced. He avoided De Manure smh. As if he wouldn't have breezed through him. If anything it's gonna hamper him not having the light workout that Manure would've provided the GOAT
 
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NatF said:
Or even 2019 if we don't want to back too far. I recognise my perspective is pretty jaded at this point, I hope that some other young players start rising up to join Sinner/Alcaraz as well.
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I can understand the frustration. I keep waiting impatiently for Musetti to take the next step and I think we’re all wondering what on earth Rune is doing.
 
Subway Tennis said:
I can understand the frustration. I keep waiting impatiently for Musetti to take the next step and I think we’re all wondering what on earth Rune is doing.
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Lol, another player with a nice one-hander would be good to watch
a10best said:
The thread title is 100% true. Sinner's draw is extremely difficult.

Djokovic's slam titles have been inflated overall with these easy draws.

Even though he has 24 major titles he still plays like he has 18 because he knows that people know it's inflated so he needs to win at least 2-4 more for a larger gap.
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I agree with the first two parts
 
Avoiding having to face HH or AdM doesn’t affect how I view Djoker’s draw here at all tbh, both guys weren’t going to make a difference.

TripleATeam said:
You could just say "Djokovic own him" for 98% of the tour and you'd be right. If that's a disqualifying factor, then there's no such thing as a tough draw for him.

I swear, y'all want him to go through
R1 Evans
R2 Opelka or another servebot
R3 Draper/Khachanov
R4 Fritz
QF Medvedev
SF Alcaraz
F Sinner

And maybe even that wouldn't be tough in your eyes.
Click to expand...

Ok so here are Fed’s Wim draws from after his “prime” ended

2011: Tsonga - Djokovic - Nadal
2012: Youzhny - Djokovic - Murray
2013: Kubot - Murray - Djokovic
2014: Wawrinka - Raonic - Djokovic
2015: Simon - Murray - Djokovic
2016: Cilic - Raonic - Murray
2017: Raonic - Berdych - Cilic
2018: Anderson - Isner - Djokovic
2019: Nishikori - Nadal - Djokovic
2021: Hurkacz - Berrettini - Djokovic

And here are Djoker’s

2017: Berdych - Federer - Cilic
2018: Nishikori - Nadal - Anderson
2019: Goffin - RBA - Federer
2021: Fucsovics - Shapo - Berrettini
2022: Sinner - Norrie - Kyrgios
2023: Rublev - Sinner - Alcaraz
2024: Walkover - Fritz?? - Alcaraz

“Tough” are Federer’s 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015 and 2019, for example, where he has to play more than one player with actual grass pedigree and/or a slam champion (granted he L’d out of 2 of those anyway).

Djokovic has had 1 “tough” draw by this metric, in 2017 where he lost anyway. And the quality of the finalists waiting for him at the end of the draw are far below Fed’s - no-one can say with a straight face that 2014-15 Djokovic or 2016 Murray are easier tests than 2021 Berrettini, 2022 Kyrgios or 2023 Alcaraz

And yes; it’s not really his fault considering the field is so bad rn that most draws are by default easy. Avoiding Sinneraz in the SF certainly is the best case scenario but Sinner L’d out anyway like a bum
 
jl809 said:
Avoiding having to face HH or AdM doesn’t affect how I view Djoker’s draw here at all tbh, both guys weren’t going to make a difference.



Ok so here are Fed’s Wim draws from after his “prime” ended

2011: Tsonga - Djokovic - Nadal
2012: Youzhny - Djokovic - Murray
2013: Kubot - Murray - Djokovic
2014: Wawrinka - Raonic - Djokovic
2015: Simon - Murray - Djokovic
2016: Cilic - Raonic - Murray
2017: Raonic - Berdych - Cilic
2018: Anderson - Isner - Djokovic
2019: Nishikori - Nadal - Djokovic
2021: Hurkacz - Berrettini - Djokovic

And here are Djoker’s

2017: Berdych - Federer - Cilic
2018: Nishikori - Nadal - Anderson
2019: Goffin - RBA - Federer
2021: Fucsovics - Shapo - Berrettini
2022: Sinner - Norrie - Kyrgios
2023: Rublev - Sinner - Alcaraz
2024: Walkover - Fritz?? - Alcaraz

“Tough” are Federer’s 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015 and 2019, for example, where he has to play more than one player with actual grass pedigree and/or a slam champion (granted he L’d out of 2 of those anyway).

Djokovic has had 1 “tough” draw by this metric, in 2017 where he lost anyway. And the quality of the finalists waiting for him at the end of the draw are far below Fed’s - no-one can say with a straight face that 2014-15 Djokovic or 2016 Murray are easier tests than 2021 Berrettini, 2022 Kyrgios or 2023 Alcaraz

And yes; it’s not really his fault considering the field is so bad rn that most draws are by default easy. Avoiding Sinneraz in the SF certainly is the best case scenario but Sinner L’d out anyway like a bum
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His 2018 draw really wasn't that bad. No. 1 Nadal who was arguably the single best player at that edition of Wimbledon up till that defeat against Djokovic based off statistics leading up, and even then, that match is one of the best there's been. No. 8 Anderson who had made a major final at 2017 USO and lost only against Nadal, and then at Wimbledon beat defending champion Federer himself after two-sets down and match point down. As for Nishikori, he's an alright opponent, better than someone like Kubot.
 
jl809 said:
Avoiding having to face HH or AdM doesn’t affect how I view Djoker’s draw here at all tbh, both guys weren’t going to make a difference.



Ok so here are Fed’s Wim draws from after his “prime” ended

2011: Tsonga - Djokovic - Nadal
2012: Youzhny - Djokovic - Murray
2013: Kubot - Murray - Djokovic
2014: Wawrinka - Raonic - Djokovic
2015: Simon - Murray - Djokovic
2016: Cilic - Raonic - Murray
2017: Raonic - Berdych - Cilic
2018: Anderson - Isner - Djokovic
2019: Nishikori - Nadal - Djokovic
2021: Hurkacz - Berrettini - Djokovic

And here are Djoker’s

2017: Berdych - Federer - Cilic
2018: Nishikori - Nadal - Anderson
2019: Goffin - RBA - Federer
2021: Fucsovics - Shapo - Berrettini
2022: Sinner - Norrie - Kyrgios
2023: Rublev - Sinner - Alcaraz
2024: Walkover - Fritz?? - Alcaraz

“Tough” are Federer’s 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015 and 2019, for example, where he has to play more than one player with actual grass pedigree and/or a slam champion (granted he L’d out of 2 of those anyway).

Djokovic has had 1 “tough” draw by this metric, in 2017 where he lost anyway. And the quality of the finalists waiting for him at the end of the draw are far below Fed’s - no-one can say with a straight face that 2014-15 Djokovic or 2016 Murray are easier tests than 2021 Berrettini, 2022 Kyrgios or 2023 Alcaraz

And yes; it’s not really his fault considering the field is so bad rn that most draws are by default easy. Avoiding Sinneraz in the SF certainly is the best case scenario but Sinner L’d out anyway like a bum
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I don't know what you're trying to refute in my statement. I literally wrote out the hardest possible draw this year by seeding and unseeded players, and even despite that the R1-R4 would be clowned by half of TTW, the QF being Medvedev would be a joke to plenty (given his best Wimby result before this was QF, and he's gone out R1 more often than made R2), and people would actually respect Sinner/Alcaraz.

Given the tour it's literally impossible to give Djokovic a draw that half of TTW wouldn't consider a breeze up until the SF/F, and that's only if he loses the draw coinflip and gets the 3rd seed on his side.
 
TripleATeam said:
I don't know what you're trying to refute in my statement. I literally wrote out the hardest possible draw this year by seeding and unseeded players, and even despite that the R1-R4 would be clowned by half of TTW, the QF being Medvedev would be a joke to plenty (given his best Wimby result before this was QF, and he's gone out R1 more often than made R2), and people would actually respect Sinner/Alcaraz.

Given the tour it's literally impossible to give Djokovic a draw that half of TTW wouldn't consider a breeze up until the SF/F, and that's only if he loses the draw coinflip and gets the 3rd seed on his side.
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I’m not trying to refute anything, I literally agree with you at the end of my comment. Tough draws are very hard to come by at this point. I think where the annoyance for a lot of people comes though is that we’re potentially about to see Djoker tie Fed overall at Wimbledon by leveraging a much muggier set of circumstances, as is illustrated by the draws

BigThreeForever said:
His 2018 draw really wasn't that bad. No. 1 Nadal who was arguably the single best player at that edition of Wimbledon up till that defeat against Djokovic based off statistics leading up, and even then, that match is one of the best there's been. No. 8 Anderson who had made a major final at 2017 USO and lost only against Nadal, and then at Wimbledon beat defending champion Federer himself after two-sets down and match point down. As for Nishikori, he's an alright opponent, better than someone like Kubot.
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Agreed, it wasn’t bad at all. Just wasn’t super tough (also ironically Nadal despite being the 2nd seed got the harder draw than 12th seeded Djoker, because he pulled DelPo in the QF)
 
jl809 said:
I’m not trying to refute anything, I literally agree with you at the end of my comment. Tough draws are very hard to come by at this point. I think where the annoyance for a lot of people comes though is that we’re potentially about to see Djoker tie Fed overall at Wimbledon by leveraging a much muggier set of circumstances, as is illustrated by the draws
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If Novak wins he will have to do it by beating Alcaraz or whoever was good enough to beat him. More than half of Fed’s Ws were against players like Roddick, Cilic or Philippoussis. They were all fine players but none was an ATG or even close to it.
 
GabeT said:
If Novak wins he will have to do it by beating Alcaraz or whoever was good enough to beat him. More than half of Fed’s Ws were against players like Roddick, Cilic or Philippoussis. They were all fine players but none was an ATG or even close to it.
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We don't need to justify at all to anyone anymore
 
This is probably the easiest draw he’s ever had to a major final. The competition has been 250 level at best. There used to be a time where from at least the quarters level on you would face challenges. This is just sad for the sport.
 
GabeT said:
If Novak wins he will have to do it by beating Alcaraz or whoever was good enough to beat him. More than half of Fed’s Ws were against players like Roddick, Cilic or Philippoussis. They were all fine players but none was an ATG or even close to it.
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Alcaraz has proven little to warrant consideration above Murray/Wawrinka.

Roddick is absolutely ahead on grass as an opponent. Cilic is a Hall of Fame as well who was injured and that's fair to discount with Novak facing Kyrgios.
 
jl809 said:
I’m not trying to refute anything, I literally agree with you at the end of my comment. Tough draws are very hard to come by at this point. I think where the annoyance for a lot of people comes though is that we’re potentially about to see Djoker tie Fed overall at Wimbledon by leveraging a much muggier set of circumstances, as is illustrated by the draws


Agreed, it wasn’t bad at all. Just wasn’t super tough (also ironically Nadal despite being the 2nd seed got the harder draw than 12th seeded Djoker, because he pulled DelPo in the QF)
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No argument that Federer won his Wimbledons in generally harder circumstances. I think all objective folks would say the field since 2019 has been somewhat lacking in grass court challengers compared to late 2000s and most of the 2010s.

Even if we discount the quality of all of Fed's Wimbledons before 2007, he still had a challenging 2007, 2009, 2012, and honestly looking back on it 2017 wasn't a cakewalk either. Djokovic had his equivalent tough draws in 2011, 2014, 2015, and arguably 2018. But I doubt anyone would in good faith say 2019, 2021, and 2022 are as good draw-wise as 2003, 2004, 2005, or 2006.

I think it'd be hard to put Djokovic above Federer if they both have 8 Wimbledons, let alone the fact Federer has extra finals. But in the end, a slam's a slam. You play who you get and you beat those in front of you. It's possible his draws will retroactively look stronger based on what the opponents end up accomplishing, as Federer's early run ins with Berdych, Cilic, Delpo, and Karlovic show. But maybe not. Either way, at the moment there's just too few players that can challenge him on grass.
 
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BGod said:
Alcaraz has proven little to warrant consideration above Murray/Wawrinka.

Roddick is absolutely ahead on grass as an opponent. Cilic is a Hall of Fame as well who was injured and that's fair to discount with Novak facing Kyrgios.
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Alcaraz is barely 21 and already has similar accomplishments (if not higher) than Murray and Wawa

Roddick was absolutely Fed’s pigeon. 21-3 record is a joke

Cilic is a good player but Alcaraz is already several notches better.
 
Ray Mercer said:
This is probably the easiest draw he’s ever had to a major final. The competition has been 250 level at best. There used to be a time where from at least the quarters level on you would face challenges. This is just sad for the sport.
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I think at USO 16 there were two W/O and one retirement. Or perhaps one ret was a few games in.

Novak: 14 sets to reach the final.

Stan: 24 sets to reach the final.
 
GabeT said:
Alcaraz is barely 21 and already has similar accomplishments (if not higher) than Murray and Wawa

Roddick was absolutely Fed’s pigeon. 21-3 record is a joke

Cilic is a good player but Alcaraz is already several notches better.
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Wasn't he supposed to have like 10 slams by now?
 
TripleATeam said:
I think it'd be hard to put Djokovic above Federer if they both have 8 Wimbledons, let alone the fact Federer has an extra one. But in the end, a slam's a slam. You play who you get and you beat those in front of you. It's possible his draws will retroactively look stronger based on what the opponents end up accomplishing, as Federer's early run ins with Berdych, Cilic, Delpo, and Karlovic show. But maybe not. Either way, at the moment there's just too few players that can challenge him on grass.
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The counter point is Fed losing 2014 & 2019 Finals to Novak he should have won along with barely winning 09 essentially outlasting another choker and losing 08 as well having opportunities 1/13 BPs is historic.

Fed also had notable chokes against Anderson, Tsonga and Raonic.

Comparatively Novak lost to peak Murray after an exhausting Semi and a possible ATG opponent 16 years younger with no notable chokes in earlier stages (upset losses are not the same as choke jobs).
 
Ray Mercer said:
This is probably the easiest draw he’s ever had to a major final. The competition has been 250 level at best. There used to be a time where from at least the quarters level on you would face challenges. This is just sad for the sport.
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Funny how it seems these draws are so easy only for Novak and no other player. Even Fed at the same age was losing to non ATGs regularly. But for Novak it’s just so easy.

Almost like he’s just better than the rest
 
GabeT said:
Alcaraz is barely 21 and already has similar accomplishments (if not higher) than Murray and Wawa

Roddick was absolutely Fed’s pigeon. 21-3 record is a joke

Cilic is a good player but Alcaraz is already several notches better.
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I consider competition. Or are you a Wilander>Becker type historian?

Alcaraz has a ton to pass Murray. Beating a legend 16 years your senior in 5 sets is not cutting it.
 
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