Is Djokovic wimbledon 24 draw is the easiest draw ever for him? And on the otherside his main rival has the one of toughest draw ever?

BGod said:
I consider competition. Or are you a Wilander>Becker type historian?

Alcaraz has a ton to pass Murray. Beating a legend 16 years your senior in 5 sets is not cutting it.
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we can separate the Big 3 from the rest, or clear ATGs from lesser players. Beyond that no one has any clue.

Fed won most of his Ws against good but not exceptional players. Players like Roddick, Cilic or Philippousis.

Novak has simply played better in his older years at W than Roger has. That’s why Novak has reached every final since 2018 and won all but one while Fed in the equivalent time span lost multiple times
 
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junior74 said:
I think at USO 16 there were two W/O and one retirement. Or perhaps one ret was a few games in.

Novak: 14 sets to reach the final.

Stan: 24 sets to reach the final.
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Don't forget Monfils in the SF, which was basically another walkover(I know it was a weird match where Djokovic donated a set) for that stage of the tournament.
 
GabeT said:
Funny how it seems these draws are so easy only for Novak and no other player. Even Fed at the same age was losing to non ATGs regularly. But for Novak it’s just so easy.

Almost like he’s just better than the rest
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Fair play. The draws have been easier for all since the tough era tailed off with Novak's drop of form 16/17 and Fed's final decline 19/20. In those years, a lot of the second best players left the tour and wasn't really replaced until Sinner and Alcaraz stepped up.

The thing I admire the most about Djokovic, is his ability to win when he is not at his best. Crazy winner's instinct.
 
NatF said:
Musetti has a nice looking game, he just needs to get a bit (alot) stronger physically. Who knows about Rune, if only he was half as good as he thinks he is.
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Rune got overhyped because of his Paris masters win, which even Karen Khachanov managed.
 
TripleATeam said:
No argument that Federer won his Wimbledons in generally harder circumstances. I think all objective folks would say the field since 2019 has been somewhat lacking in grass court challengers compared to late 2000s and most of the 2010s.

Even if we discount the quality of all of Fed's Wimbledons before 2007, he still had a challenging 2007, 2009, 2012, and honestly looking back on it 2017 wasn't a cakewalk either. Djokovic had his equivalent tough draws in 2011, 2014, 2015, and arguably 2018. But I doubt anyone would in good faith say 2019, 2021, and 2022 are as good draw-wise as 2003, 2004, 2005, or 2006.

I think it'd be hard to put Djokovic above Federer if they both have 8 Wimbledons, let alone the fact Federer has extra finals. But in the end, a slam's a slam. You play who you get and you beat those in front of you. It's possible his draws will retroactively look stronger based on what the opponents end up accomplishing, as Federer's early run ins with Berdych, Cilic, Delpo, and Karlovic show. But maybe not. Either way, at the moment there's just too few players that can challenge him on grass.
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2004 should be among the challenging ones.
 
GabeT said:
we can separate the Big 3 from the rest, or clear ATGs from lesser players. Beyond that no one has any clue.

Fed won most of his Ws against good but not exceptional players. Players like Roddick, Cilic or Philippousis.

Novak has simply played better in his older years at W than Roger has. That’s why Novak has reached every final since 2018 and won all but one while Fed in the equivalent time span lost multiple times
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Roddick 09<<Federer 15
Nadal 07>>Nadal 11
Roddick 04>>Federer 14
Murray 12<<Federer 19
Roddick 05
Nadal 06>>Kyrgios
Philloppoussis 03>>Berrettini
Cilic 17=Anderson 18
 
Compared to RBA, Shapovalov, Norrie and Sinner, where do you put Musetti as Djokovic's opponent in the Wimbledon semi-finals?
 
Tano said:
Compared to RBA, Shapovalov, Norrie and Sinner, where do you put Musetti as Djokovic's opponent in the Wimbledon semi-finals?
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Sinner is definitely number 1 and the only one out of the group to even be in the top-10. Musetti will probably be at least above RBA.
 
BGod said:
Roddick 09<<Federer 15
Nadal 07>>Nadal 11
Roddick 04>>Federer 14
Murray 12<<Federer 19
Roddick 05
Nadal 06>>Kyrgios
Philloppoussis 03>>Berrettini
Cilic 17=Anderson 18
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But this is just your opinion. Which is fine but there’s now way to prove anything.

Also, why are you comparing them so out of order?

I can easily come up with other rankings. Not sure that proves anything
 
mike danny said:
How can Roddick 2009 be so below Fed 2015?
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Statistically 15 Fed was insane in part because of learning the new 97in frame. He lost to absolute peak Novak in 4 tight sets. We know 09 Roddick would mentally collapse so there's that but also Fed's 97in frame with less mental angst would almost always beat that Roddick.

It can be pretty well proven 2009-2013 Fed was the weakest mentally. He completely lucked out with opponents to win 4 Slams.
Tano said:
Compared to RBA, Shapovalov, Norrie and Sinner, where do you put Musetti as Djokovic's opponent in the Wimbledon semi-finals?
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On paper he's arguably above both RBA & Norrie. Shapovalov is a close call cause at the time he was promising but still streaky.
 
BGod said:
Statistically 15 Fed was insane in part because of learning the new 97in frame. He lost to absolute peak Novak in 4 tight sets. We know 09 Roddick would mentally collapse so there's that but also Fed's 97in frame with less mental angst would almost always beat that Roddick.

It can be pretty well proven 2009-2013 Fed was the weakest mentally. He completely lucked out with opponents to win 4 Slams.

On paper he's arguably above both RBA & Norrie. Shapovalov is a close call cause at the time he was promising but still streaky.
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Fed losing in 4 in a Wimb F? Yeah, color me unimpressed
 
BGod said:
Statistically 15 Fed was insane in part because of learning the new 97in frame. He lost to absolute peak Novak in 4 tight sets. We know 09 Roddick would mentally collapse so there's that but also Fed's 97in frame with less mental angst would almost always beat that Roddick.

It can be pretty well proven 2009-2013 Fed was the weakest mentally. He completely lucked out with opponents to win 4 Slams.

On paper he's arguably above both RBA & Norrie. Shapovalov is a close call cause at the time he was promising but still streaky.
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Musetti is the same age (22) as Shapovalov was at that time but with the advantage that he will face an inferior version of Djokovic that the Canadian faced three years ago.
 
GabeT said:
Who are you again? Some “new” user?

:-D :-D
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He is Master Torben.

what-is-the-barash-vow-article-feature_3ab7125c.jpeg
 
It's not an easy draw just yet. Alcaraz is still in the mix and he's the defending champion.

Was Roddick's 2005 draw easy? Many would say yes. I say no, because the peakiest version of Fed is whom he played in the final. Thankfully, Roddick didn't retire after that so-called "cake" draw.

Anyway, if Alcarz loses to Med, then we can call it an easy draw. But a title is a title. So I won't cry about it.
 
Pheasant said:
It's not an easy draw just yet. Alcaraz is still in the mix and he's the defending champion.

Was Roddick's 2005 draw easy? Many would say yes. I say no, because the peakiest version of Fed is whom he played in the final. Thankfully, Roddick didn't retire after that so-called "cake" draw.

Anyway, if Alcarz loses to Med, then we can call it an easy draw. But a title is a title. So I won't cry about it.
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Let's not compare Carlos to peak Fed here.
 
If Djokovic somehow wins '24 WB, I think he should consider retirement right away. Because the farther away into the future, the less likely he is to beat Alcaraz & Sinner to a slam. And it is almost impossible for Nadal to pick up 2 additional slams.
 
Ray Mercer said:
This is probably the easiest draw he’s ever had to a major final. The competition has been 250 level at best. There used to be a time where from at least the quarters level on you would face challenges. This is just sad for the sport.
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Hopefully his final opponent is not injured from playing a semi in the non 250 half of the draw, that would provide a much needed shot of credibility assuming that Musetti fails to show much.
 
Kafel69 said:
Djok def had one hell of a goooood draw this year
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His draw was so easy he really had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find something even pseudo adversarial; so embarrassing yet again.
Kyrgios likes Noleg because Noleg makes him look slightly less wacko - I wonder if they’ve changed the net post? Another good belt could probably break it.
 
I still wouldn't call Alcaraz's draw a very difficult one, frankly.
Lajal is ranked around 250-300.
Vukic wasn't one of the dangerous non-seeded players.
Tiafoe is the shadow of himself since the USO. He literally just lost to a guy who was on a 15 matches losing streak (Cachin).
Humbert is a disaster since his Monte-Carlo QF (lost to Bautista-Agut in Mallorca)
Paul and Medvedev are good players, but still not the players he was supposed to face.

Had Djokovic played Rune in R4, De Minaur in the QF and Zverev in the SF, it would have been quite similar to me. Unfortunately De Minaur and Zverev were injured and Rune played a terrible match, that worked in Djokovic's favor but why blame him for that. It's on them.
 
Why did Djokovic face more top 5, top 10 and top 20 opponents than Federer and Nadal? I think it was because on average, he got deeper into the business end of the tournaments.

For instance, for slams the data is:

Name Match Entries M/E
Feder 429 81 5.30
Nadal 358 68 5.26
Djokv 423 75 5.64

The maximum of M/E is 7, the final. 5.64 means that Djokovic was 2/3 of the way toward SF, whereas Federer and Nadal were just a third of the way there.

The data on the table above was incomplete for Nadal & Djokovic.
 
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SonnyT said:
Why did Djokovic face more top 5, top 10 and top 20 opponents than Federer and Nadal? I think it was because on average, he got deeper into the business end of the tournaments.

For instance, for slams the data is:

Name Match Entries M/E
Feder 429 81 5.30
Nadal 358 68 5.26
Djokv 423 75 5.64

The maximum of M/E is 7, the final. 5.64 means that Djokovic was 2/3 of the way toward SF, whereas Federer and Nadal were just a third of the way there.

The data on the table above was incomplete for Nadal & Djokovic.
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Please don’t analyze numbers for a profession.

You just cannot remove the integer portion of the numbers you are comparing
 
BigThreeForever said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1811102894676201615
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Neptune said:
Please remind me if you find any top-tier player with over 23% of his career matches against top 10 opponents.

If the percentage rises above 25%, may God bless him.

There is a reason Nole has the highest average opponent rank, leading Fed and Rafa by a wide margin.

Delusional and devoted haters should at least have some clue while coping with grief.
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What did I say in post #3?
 
Oceans II said:
Why are Nole haters (mostly butthurt Fedfans) so worried about "easy draws" and "faked surgeries" when they say he is too old and Sinncaraz are now too good for him? :unsure: ;)
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All of Federer's eight victories, except 2 over Nadal & 1 over Djokovic, were 'soft', over Mickey Mouse opposition. 8-3 = 5 soft victories

All of Djokovic's seven victories, except 3 over Federer & 2 over Nadal, were soft. 7-5 = 2 soft victories

5 >> 2. Congrats, Fedfans, Federer outscored Djokovic in out-Mickey Mouse the opposition.
 
jmacdaununder2 said:
Hopefully his final opponent is not injured from playing a semi in the non 250 half of the draw, that would provide a much needed shot of credibility assuming that Musetti fails to show much.
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The Wimbledon organizers wanted Djokovic to play in the final at any cost.
And, barring any surprise, it seems that they will achieve it.
 
ND-13 said:
Please don’t analyze numbers for a profession.

You just cannot remove the integer portion of the numbers you are comparing
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What the hell are you talking about? The data obviously show Djokovic progressed more than Federer & Nadal.
 
Obviously since the field has gotten gradually worse since like 2016 tough draws are a thing of the past barring significant outliers like Novak’s 2018 Wimbledon or Fed’s 2017 AO. As such, Alcaraz’s/Sinner’s draws aren’t really that historically tough. I imagine a younger Big 3 level player could cruise through without any difficulties.

But Djokovic’s draw is easy even by the standards of this era. A tremendous outlier.
 
Hot take alert

Alcz draw was just as easy until Med.
Paul should've been a challenge but wasn't.

Conversely, Rune should've been a challenge for Djoko but wasn't.
The DeMin walkover is just luck, maybe the ghosts of Wimbly want Djoko to get #25?
 
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