Is Fed the most TALENTED player ever?

Is Federer the most talented player in tennis history?

  • Yes/Jawohl/Chumjetzt

    Votes: 48 68.6%

  • No/Nein/Gurufils or someone else

    Votes: 22 31.4%
  • Total voters
    70
Healthy in their Prime? Gotta go with Rios. Never seen anyone play like that before or after. Almost like he was cheating sometimes. Just incredible timing and feel with the ability to cut off shots and make up angles on the court that are not possible. And he was a tiny little man. Rios was really special.

Federer and Mac are right up there though. Federer is probably the best at silly hotdog shots. Mac is best at feel.
 
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Top 15 most talented players ranked (just off the top of my head):
- Federer
- Laver
- McEnroe
- Rios
- Safin
- Djokovic
- Nalbandian
- Becker
- Sampras
- Borg
- Edberg
- Connors
- Nastase
- Nadal
- Mecir

I'm sure there are others I can put in, Dimitrov, Rosewall, Stich, Tsonga, Agassi, etc
 
I wouldn't argue with this position. Fed can do absolutely everything well on the court - and makes it look effortless. (This belies other qualities he possesses like fitness, dedication, resilience, will, etc.)

We've been here before, and it's hard to separate pure talent from acquired skill and other factors. I also think that McEnroe (feel and touch), Laver ...all the shots and blessed with great speed and strength for his size, Nastase, etc, would all be candidates as well.

But what about Rafa? He is praised rightfully for his fitness, dedication, resilience, will, etc....but he has an eye-popping amount of talent. It wasn't all speed, strength and endurance. His feel for the game is incredible, and his touch is remarkably good.
 
RaulRamirez said:
I wouldn't argue with this position. Fed can do absolutely everything well on the court - and makes it look effortless. (This belies other qualities he possesses like fitness, dedication, resilience, will, etc.)

We've been here before, and it's hard to separate pure talent from acquired skill and other factors. I also think that McEnroe (feel and touch), Laver ...all the shots and blessed with great speed and strength for his size, Nastase, etc, would all be candidates as well.

But what about Rafa? He is praised rightfully for his fitness, dedication, resilience, will, etc....but he has an eye-popping amount of talent. It wasn't all speed, strength and endurance. His feel for the game is incredible, and his touch is remarkably good.
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I put Fed at Laver level talent. Great but not The greatest in terms of pure talent.

Mac is the best at touch and feel but he wasnt the greatest at doctor feelgooding power IMO.

Nadal... not even close IMO. Great as he is he is a working dog on the court. But hey .... talent isnt everything and he has the greatest ability to hold focus I have ever seen.

Rios was from another planet. He made the game look rediculous. Maybe not as much in terms of trickshots and hotdoging but the way he actually constructed points and manipulated great players was silly. It almost looked like he could manipulate time itself sometimes. Rios also made the game look easy to the point it seemed he wasnt even trying. I watched many world class players be completely shellshocked by Little Marcello. Its such a shame he couldnt stay healthy. We were robbed.
 
1H-Backhand said:
Without the shadow of a doubt, regardless of how the "slam race" ends.
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Fed obviously is the most talented tennis player ever, McEnroe would be in second place. Whoever is in third place is behind them both by a significant distance. Rios and Laver would be my picks, but there are others in the mix.
 
magnut said:
I put Fed at Laver level talent. Great but not The greatest in terms of pure talent.

Mac is the best at touch and feel but he wasnt the greatest at doctor feelgooding power IMO.

Nadal... not even close IMO. Great as he is he is a working dog on the court. But hey .... talent isnt everything and he has the greatest ability to hold focus I have ever seen.

Rios was from another planet. He made the game look rediculous. Maybe not as much in terms of trickshots and hotdoging but the way he actually constructed points and manipulated great players was silly. It almost looked like he could manipulate time itself sometimes. Rios also made the game look easy to the point it seemed he wasnt even trying. I watched many world class players be completely shellshocked by Little Marcello. Its such a shame he couldnt stay healthy. We were robbed.
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Rios was quite a talent - agreed.
Dolgopolov - who never reached Rios' level and has beset with injuries and a medical condition - also oozes talent (for a smaller guy) to me. Not top of the list, but an interesting name.

I'm stubborn on Rafa. Yes, he's an absolute warrior, but what is he lacking,talent-wise? Blinding speed and quickness, strength, amazing hands/touch/feel. No, he doesn't have a great serve - which I consider a "skill" - and obviously works hard, but his feel for the game, along with his athleticism, is immense.
 
RaulRamirez said:
Rios was quite a talent - agreed.
Dolgopolov - who never reached Rios' level and has beset with injuries and a medical condition - also oozes talent (for a smaller guy) to me. Not top of the list, but an interesting name.

I'm stubborn on Rafa. Yes, he's an absolute warrior, but what is he lacking,talent-wise? Blinding speed and quickness, strength, amazing hands/touch/feel. No, he doesn't have a great serve - which I consider a "skill" - and obviously works hard, but his feel for the game, along with his athleticism, is immense.
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I like Dolgopolov.... yeah he has some talent. I dont know if I would put him up there with the big names though. I would say Arazi was more talentede than Dolgo. Pioline had some major talent but nobody remembers him.

Rafa is kind of like Edberg talent level. Rafa could probably be a proffesional athlete in a bunch of different sports similar to Stephan who I consider the greatest in terms of movement because he had the balance of a dancer, the speed of a cat, and the aggression of a great white shark.... amazing player. Rafa is just raw athleticism combine with amazing focus and he competes like Connors and Hewitt. He is another amazing player but his game is built on hard, hard work.

Little story about Edberg... one of his on court workouts was to go out alone and play air tennis.... no ball... no partner. Friend of mine from long ago watched him do it for almost two hours at a tournament. Just moving all around the court finding his rythem with air swings. He did S&V, baseline, even return of serve. Tony Picard was with him just watching and observing. He won the tournament BTW.
 
BeatlesFan said:
Fed obviously is the most talented tennis player ever, McEnroe would be in second place. Whoever is in third place is behind them both by a significant distance. Rios and Laver would be my picks, but there are others in the mix.
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I am disqualifying you because of obvios bias LOL.
 
magnut said:
I like Dolgopolov.... yeah he has some talent. I dont know if I would put him up there with the big names though. I would say Arazi was more talentede than Dolgo. Pioline had some major talent but nobody remembers him.

Rafa is kind of like Edberg talent level. Rafa could probably be a proffesional athlete in a bunch of different sports similar to Stephan who I consider the greatest in terms of movement because he had the balance of a dancer, the speed of a cat, and the aggression of a great white shark.... amazing player. Rafa is just raw athleticism combine with amazing focus and he competes like Connors and Hewitt. He is another amazing player but his game is built on hard, hard work.

Little story about Edberg... one of his on court workouts was to go out alone and play air tennis.... no ball... no partner. Friend of mine from long ago watched him do it for almost two hours at a tournament. Just moving all around the court finding his rythem with air swings. He did S&V, baseline, even return of serve. Tony Picard was with him just watching and observing. He won the tournament BTW.
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I remember Pioline - made two slam finals versus Sampras (?) - but I don't have a great picture of his game. Arazi, I guess had some Rios-like qualities, if also not near the success level.
...love the Edberg story.
All true on Rafa; I just think that you're missing his exquisite touch, and how easy he makes certain shots look - whether volleys, dropshots, or incredibly angled groundstrokes. But, not worth more back-and-forth.
 
RaulRamirez said:
I remember Pioline - made two slam finals versus Sampras (?) - but I don't have a great picture of his game. Arazi, I guess had some Rios-like qualities, if also not near the success level.
...love the Edberg story.
All true on Rafa; I just think that you're missing his exquisite touch, and how easy he makes certain shots look - whether volleys, dropshots, or incredibly angled groundstrokes. But, not worth more back-and-forth.
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I actually think Rafa is the best volleyer out of the big 4. He is a proactive volleyer and attacks the ball more with better movement at the net than the others. Rafa actaully looks like he wants to hit volleys. He has that killer instinct up there that you need to be a good volleyer. He very rarely looks off balance at the net either. It may not be smooth but thats not really his style.

Arazi was lazy and had a very weak second serve. He never really maximized his talent. He is not at rios level though......Nobody is when he was healthy in his prime. People see his matches when he had all kinds of injuries and dont get a good read on him. Laver loved watching Marcello by the way. Even though the media slandered him with nonsense there were a lot of people in the game that were shocked at what he could do on court.
 
I’m just not going to compare Laver to modern guys bc it’s not even the same sport.

Fed’s longevity is a testament to his talent. His speed is clearly gone, his mental toughness frayed by decades of tight matches, but he’s still the third or fourth best player at nearly 40. That’s crazy.
 
Djokodal are obviously more talented than McEnroe. Many more kids started playing tennis born in 1986-87 than in 1959, so the talent pool Djokodal came from was bigger.

But there's this misconception that players who are physically/mentally strong do not have top level talent.
 
Lew II said:
No Djokodal are just as talented, or they wouldn't have started beating Federer at the age of 19.

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yeah... Gilbert has a win on Andre too. So does Hewitt. Doesnt mean much.

Look.... I like Novak more than I do Federer and Nadal mostly because he is a more grounded individual IMO. But he moves like a clown at the net and his backhand slice makes Lendl look like Rosewall. His serve is another one. He is a great side to side move and flexable. His game is "manufactured" though. Thats OK.... talent is not everything and Novak is a fine and very dedicated champion. If I had to be stuck in a bind with any of the top 3 it would be Novak.
 
vex said:
I’m just not going to compare Laver to modern guys bc it’s not even the same sport.

Fed’s longevity is a testament to his talent. His speed is clearly gone, his mental toughness frayed by decades of tight matches, but he’s still the third or fourth best player at nearly 40. That’s crazy.
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Djokodal have a better longevity than Federer, speaking of numbers.

Slams won before turning 21 --> Nadal 2, Djokovic 1, Federer 0
Slams won after turning 28 --> Djokovic 9, Nadal 6, Federer 5
 
magnut said:
yeah... Gilbert has a win on Andre too. So does Hewitt. Doesnt mean much.

Look.... I like Novak more than I do Federer and Nadal mostly because he is a more grounded individual IMO. But he moves like a clown at the net and his backhand slice makes Lendl look like Rosewall. His serve is another one. He is a great side to side move and flexable. His game is "manufactured" though. Thats OK.... talent is not everything and Novak is a fine and very dedicated champion. If I had to be stuck in a bind with any of the top 3 it would be Novak.
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19/20 yo Nadal and Djokovic yo beat #1 Federer in Grand Slam semifinals and Masters finals. When did Gilbert do something like that? :unsure:

Movement skills are part of his talent. He always had the ability to slide and flex on the court, the nature gave it to him.
 
Lew II said:
Djokodal have a better longevity than Federer, speaking of numbers.

Slams won before turning 21 --> Nadal 2, Djokovic 1, Federer 0
Slams won after turning 28 --> Djokovic 9, Nadal 6, Federer 5
Click to expand...
Yeah looking at just numbers to talk longevity is ridiculous considering the jump off the screen context involved in those numbers. We’ll see if Djoker is 50/50 with the current top dog at Wimby when he’s 38/39.
 
MeatTornado said:
Most pure racket talent of anyone I've seen in the modern graphite & poly era.
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Well, if we want to get TECHNICAL, he does use gut. However he has a stiff setup so he isn’t much different in terms of racquet technology compared to a joe schmo on the tour.

Edit: gut in hybrid.
 
Lew II said:
19/20 yo Nadal and Djokovic yo beat #1 Federer in Grand Slam semifinals and Masters finals. When did Gilbert do something like that? :unsure:

Movement skills are part of his talent. He always had the ability to slide and flex on the court, the nature gave it to him.
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OK you win.... Novak is the most talented player of all time.

Happy now?
 
vex said:
Yeah looking at just numbers to talk longevity is ridiculous considering the jump off the screen context involved in those numbers. We’ll see if Djoker is 50/50 with the current top dog at Wimby when he’s 38/39.
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Are you saying that Federer ammassed his slams aged 22-27 with weaker competition?

That wouldn't make his talent look good.
 
Lew II said:
19/20 yo Nadal and Djokovic yo beat #1 Federer in Grand Slam semifinals and Masters finals. When did Gilbert do something like that? :unsure:

Movement skills are part of his talent. He always had the ability to slide and flex on the court, the nature gave it to him.
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2000’s GOAT decade.
 
DjokoGOAT said:
“most talented player ever”:

11-21 vs main rivals at slams
0-3 peak for peak vs Djokovic at Wimbledon
0-6 at rg vs nadal
1-4 at ao vs djokovic
2-10 at slams vs Djokovic since 2011
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We are not talking greatness, but talent...

And talent, it's too subjective and abstract... Yes, Federer seem to be talented, but many others are in different way...

And Kyrgios, come on, don't mix being tennis clown with talent... Most of players could do his clown act if they want to...
 
The fact that midgets (tennis wise) like Rios and Nalbandian are considered among the most talented is the proof that the physical talent is overlooked.
 
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skaj said:
He's not even the only Swiss to have all of that :)
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Never understood how a small country like Switzerland with no discernible history (or interest) in tennis could, within a few short years, produce 3 multiple Slam champions (Hingis, Federer, Wawrinka) and an Olympic Gold Medal Singles Champion (Rosset).
 
King No1e said:
Top 15 most talented players ranked (just off the top of my head):
- Federer
- Laver
- McEnroe
- Rios
- Safin
- Djokovic
- Nalbandian
- Becker
- Sampras
- Borg
- Edberg
- Connors
- Nastase
- Nadal
- Mecir

I'm sure there are others I can put in, Dimitrov, Rosewall, Stich, Tsonga, Agassi, etc
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I'm sure there are.
 
BeatlesFan said:
Fed obviously is the most talented tennis player ever, McEnroe would be in second place. Whoever is in third place is behind them both by a significant distance. Rios and Laver would be my picks, but there are others in the mix.
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Absolutely, Federer is like O'Sullivan (albeit, as things stand, Roger has accomplished a little bit more within his sport). When it comes to natural talent, Ronnie is also considered, by anyone who really understands snooker, as being head and shoulders above everybody else.
 
King No1e said:
Top 15 most talented players ranked (just off the top of my head):
- Federer
- Laver
- McEnroe
- Rios
- Safin
- Djokovic
- Nalbandian
- Becker
- Sampras
- Borg
- Edberg
- Connors
- Nastase
- Nadal
- Mecir

I'm sure there are others I can put in, Dimitrov, Rosewall, Stich, Tsonga, Agassi, etc
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Becker ranked higher than Sampras, Nastase...? :unsure:
 
Zoid said:
Been a lot of talented players:

talented in terms of raw power: safin, monfils, kygs, pete, blake, nadal

talented in terms of ball-striking - safin, Djokovic, Agassi, Nalbandian

talented in terms of improvisation - fed, kyrgios, monfils,

talented in terms of movement/athleticism - monfils, dimitrov, djok, nadal, pete, fed

talented in terms of feel - rios, fed, santoro, Mac, Murray, Arazi, Paire

Talented in terms of anticipation - murray, Fed

But if I have to pick one it's Fed - I tend to think players with head-light racquets have an advantage as they can more easily maneuvre and adjust late, hit the backhand overhead, flick shots more etc. No surprise that fed and kyrgios both have such set-ups.

Fed has incredible feel, ball-striking, have seen him hit literally every shot - backhand flick passes, fake drop shots, backhand overheads, tweeners, drop volleys, jump smashes, SABR etc. On top of that he can slide into defensive balls, rip winners from deep, serve with pin-point accuracy, and returns big servers quite well - anticipation.

Second? Of current era definitely kyrgios for me
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I would add:
Tsonga for power
Davenport, Henin for ball-striking
Schiavone for improvisation
Borg, Mecir for movement/athleticism
Hingis, Nalbandian, Gasquet for feel
Rios, Hingis, Mecir, Radwanska for anticipation
 
Technically yeah I think so.

Overall I think it might be Nadal cause he's a greater physical talent.

Overall it's just really hard to define.
 
nicklane1 said:
I saw him hit angles which looked mathematically impossible from his position on the court.
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How does one define a mathematically impossible angle? I’m mostly curious about swingspeed/swingpath/gut&poly variable in the possible (or should I write impossible?) equation.
 
Nah i think Nick is more talented. Roger has always had an awkward looking backhand while Nick's is perfect. Roger has a better forehand for sure but mainly due to the grip.

With his forehand he is just one head above everybody else. Explosive, a lot of variety. But backhand, no. Serve is also insanely good - but he tightens up on his first serve a lot in close matches. Volleys are overrated. Smashes, court coverage and athleticism are best of all time. (maybe after Pete, but i havent watched him a lot)
 
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DjokoGOAT said:
“most talented player ever”:

11-21 vs main rivals at slams
0-3 peak for peak vs Djokovic at Wimbledon
0-6 at rg vs nadal
1-4 at ao vs djokovic
2-10 at slams vs Djokovic since 2011
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Yeah surely Novak "overhead to the net with his legs straight" and "volley hit to the alley and the backfence on a matchpoint" is a far more talented player.
 
Talent is too subjective. Subjectively speaking, I think Nadal is the most talented as he possesses game unlikely to be replicated.

 
It's impossible to say really, depends on so many factors, how you define talent, different surfaces, conditions etc. many will mention Kyrgios as ATG level talent because of his feel for the ball but one of the most common denominators for ATGs is great movement. I don't see Nick reaching that level even if he was committed to the sport in the fullest.

It's doubly hard to say for tennis also since conditions change so much from era to era. Many people who started following tennis in 2000s will look at Wikipedia/stats/ELO ratings and see lone Wimbledon title to Agassi's name, yet the way the guy was able to take the ball early and hit so clean on dead bounce grass is something truly special IMO.

Another thing is how broadly you define talent, do you put feel for the ball above every other facet of the game? Would you take Rios and Nalbandian angles, touch, placement over destructive forces like Courier's I/O FH or Roddick's serve? Both players known for their ugly games whose talent is often downplayed but can anyone really the effectiveness of those weapons.

I also think that success in tennis is somewhat "biased" in favour of great FHs. Take Murray for example, the guy's one of the best ever in terms of anticipation, return of serve, BH and court coverage but never had a dominant FH (closest he got to it was under Lendl in 2012/2013) which hurt him in big matches. Not all of the aspects of the game have the same weight.
 
metsman said:
Other factors there including era which has nothing to do with Pete. Pete has GOAT serve among legit talents, GOAT or co-GOAT athleticism, and is within the top 2-3 or so for ballstriking and feel.

I think Fedr is slightly more talented than Pete due to footwork (Pete better footwork when going to net though) and ballstriking/variety and Fed's natural 6th tennis sense, but I can't really put anyone else above Pete. GOAT serve and athleticism is just an absurd starting package for talent. You can go so far with that and Pete had even more with great touch and ballstriking.
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Why didn't Sampras beat everyone if he was that much talented. Hypothetical Healthy Modern PETE for 25 slems, rite?
 
Federer has it all, serve, touch, power, spin and speed. He can hang with the best from the back of the court, plus he can serve and volley. Mcenroe and Pete have weird looking ground strokes, Nadal and Djokovic are more monotonous. Federer half volleys are the best looking shots imo.
 
Feddelpo20 said:
Federer has it all, serve, touch, power, spin and speed. He can hang with the best from the back of the court, plus he can serve and volley. Mcenroe and Pete have weird looking ground strokes, Nadal and Djokovic are more monotonous. Federer half volleys are the best looking shots imo.
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He doesn't have a backhand. And he is not that powerful.
 
Lew II said:
Djokodal have a better longevity than Federer, speaking of numbers.

Slams won before turning 21 --> Nadal 2, Djokovic 1, Federer 0
Slams won after turning 28 --> Djokovic 9, Nadal 6, Federer 5
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It helps having no 2 ATG six years younger breathing down your neck. Without Djokodal Fed has like 12 slams after age 28.

Who do Djokodal have stopping them from slams since turning 28. Thiem? Medvedev?
 
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