Is Fed the most TALENTED player ever?

[StrongRule]

Such a shame for the Tsonga loss. If there is any slam where Fed can beat Djokodal back to back, it's Wimb. 2011 Fed was still significantly better than 2014 and 2015 Fed. A shame for that choke.

Was that a choke though? I don't think he missed many chances there. Tsonga was serving great and Federer didn't even have many chances on the return.

 

[Deleted member 770948]

Federer's style of tennis is too similar to the textbook.
Whereas Rafa didn't need the textbook as much and still ended up with 19+ slams, and is therefore more talented than Federer.

 

[nicklane1]

Federer's style of tennis is too similar to the textbook.
Whereas Rafa didn't need the textbook as much and still ended up with 19+ slams, and is therefore more talented than Federer.

While I don't agree that Nadal is more talented, he did change the way men's tennis is played, by introducing the buggy whip forehand. Or at least making it popular.

 

[mike danny]

You obviously did not get the point. Did Rafa not stopped Djokovic from winning more French Opens ? Does he have a channce to do that at the
USO ? Did Djokovic not stopped Rafa from winning more AOs ? Wimbledon? If both meet again, does Rafa have a chance ?

I got your point. I just laid down the facts. Rafa has been competition for Djokovic, just not great enough to make up for the lack of ATG youngsters.

And Rafa hasn't had to overcome Djokovic at all to win any of his last 5 slams.

There used to be a time when these 2 had a fierce rivalry. Not the case anymore since 2015.

 

[magnut]

Not by any stretch of the imagination in a world where Laver above all others and McEnroe (John) existed.

McEnroe barely practiced. Lot of matches he just showed up and played.

 

[ChaelAZ]

No. He is not the most talented.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[beast of mallorca]

I got your point. I just laid down the facts. Rafa has been competition for Djokovic, just not great enough to make up for the lack of ATG youngsters.

And Rafa hasn't had to overcome Djokovic at all to win any of his last 5 slams.

There used to be a time when these 2 had a fierce rivalry. Not the case anymore since 2015.

Thanks.

My point really, as regards to Gazelle's post, is that each one will stop the other from winning more GS in the next 3-4 yrs. Don't you agree ? I'm not contending Djokovic's stronghold at the HCs against Rafa, but Rafa is the biggest obstacle for Djokovic in winning the FO, and to some extent "maybe the USO " as well. (Emphasis on maybe).

Can you imagine Djoker winning 2 more FO ? (plus winning another AO or USO ior W ) That would elevate his stature much higher than Fed's. He will definitely eclipse him ( and Rafa)

On the other side of the coin, can you imagine Rafa winning another Australian Open ? And another USO ?


The discussion from Rafa"s Vamos Bri*gde will be endless with a double Career GS, or a 5th USO three tier peat with Jimmy and Feddy.

Each player is negating the another from completely dominating the GOAThood conversation .

Gazelle was alluding to, that there is no ATG to breath on their necks as far as accumulating the GS trophies. I was merely saying that they still have each other to contend with, even if it's just clay for Rafa (you say), as it appears ..for now (I say)

 

[metsman]

I agree with much of this but which still doesn't square up with Fed losing to Berdych or Tsonga. See, 2010-11 was not a lull in the way 2015-16 was for Nadal or 2017 for Novak. The latter two's confidence was shot and they were playing awful those years. Fed wasn't. Fed GOAT-ed at AO 2010. Again at the RG 2011 semi. Won WTF both years. That was the frustrating thing about Fed in those years. He was still very much capable of his best tennis and even produced it often on the biggest stage, but still had those annoying losses. It seems harsh, again, to 'blame' him for that but that's what it comes down to vis a vis Nadal/Djokovic. The losses Fed suffered to Djokovic/Nadal in those years, I don't mind (though I do mind the original iteration of 40-15). But the losses against far lesser players when he was otherwise playing well have hurt his tally. I do agree by the way that Nadalovic haven't had younger ATGs challenge them the way Fed has had with, well, Nadal and Djokovic. But they have also not gone on a walkabout when playing well the way he often did in 2010-11. Even when they do, they are focused enough to find a way back into the match and win.

I don't think Federer was physically in top shape for parts of 2010/2011. Some of it may have been natural, but I also I think after 2010 AO with the slam tally 16-6 he was in coast mode.

I think that 2011 USO loss pissed him off to the point where he got back in top shape with a ton of motivation and that really kickstarted the great run that he had after that, and he accomplished the goal (win a slam and get to #1 in the current era with the other guys all in their primes and him not, a pretty emphatic statement). Of course, him overplaying in that run probably led to the subsequent back issues which may have hastened the decline into 2014-present no FHerer. But there's always a risk/reward calculus when you're going after #1 like that.

 

[metsman]

He did have that lung infection in 2010 but regardless of that he was a mess physically in 2010 Wimbledon, had a thigh injury and was on the ropes against Falla in the 1st round. Was in no shape to duke it out with Nadal at Wimbledon again.

I can see 2011 Wimbledon as a missed opportunity, Jo was treeing with his serve but Fed was annoyingly passive in that match, he certainly could have put more pressure. Rest of the slams was Novak in superlative form in 2011 AO and having to beat two ATGs in their athletic peaks back-to-back at 2011 FO and 2011 USO, that was always gonna be a longshot. Of coursed he'd have to do that at Wimbledon as well if he had gotten past Novak but grass is grass.

2012 USO can be argued to be a missed shot as well but Berdman a was tough cookie for Fed in those days, dating back to 2009 AO actually where he was up 2-0 against Fed int he 4th round (IIRC).

2012 USO is the best of all the bad losses in that period honestly. A letdown was in the cards after the incredible highs, at that point in his career he was vulnerable to big hitting especially on a USO like surface. I was high on Fed's chances in that tournament and wish he'd made a few less easy UFE in that match + not squandered the first set break, but it was a very acceptable loss overall, Berdy was hitting the tar out of the ball and made Fed just look slow.

2012 AO was absolutely maddening too. In hindsight, tough to expect Fed to win that match, but he really had me believing at times, but just such a frustrating match.

 

[zagor]

2012 USO is the best of all the bad losses in that period honestly. A letdown was in the cards after the incredible highs, at that point in his career he was vulnerable to big hitting especially on a USO like surface. I was high on Fed's chances in that tournament and wish he'd made a few less easy UFE in that match + not squandered the first set break, but it was a very acceptable loss overall, Berdy was hitting the tar out of the ball and made Fed just look slow.

2012 AO was absolutely maddening too. In hindsight, tough to expect Fed to win that match, but he really had me believing at times, but just such a frustrating match.

2012 AO maybe have still been a chance to beat Nadal, not win a tourney given that Novak was waiting in the final. Granted he wasn't really in his super 2008 or 2011 form or anything but beating Djokodal back to back on a slow HC at that stage of Fed's career? Yeah, not happening.

Yeah, agree overall regarding 2012 USO. It was an acceptable loss but it was a still a match I feel Fed could have won on a different day. Fed couldn't defend against big hitters so well anymore so it boiled down to him trying to be overly aggressive from the baseline, basically take initiative before he's getting rag-dolled around, on a good day he still could have taken a racquet out of Berdman's hand. After that, Murray was always very beatable for Fed in BO5 and wind conditions in the final would have hindered Nova, Fed is a better wind player.

Regarding Berdman, funny thing is I feel that when he was on, he was playing better in that period than almost anyone else on tour right now basically. Tennis has really fallen as a sport.

 

[mike danny]

2012 USO is the best of all the bad losses in that period honestly. A letdown was in the cards after the incredible highs, at that point in his career he was vulnerable to big hitting especially on a USO like surface. I was high on Fed's chances in that tournament and wish he'd made a few less easy UFE in that match + not squandered the first set break, but it was a very acceptable loss overall, Berdy was hitting the tar out of the ball and made Fed just look slow.

2012 AO was absolutely maddening too. In hindsight, tough to expect Fed to win that match, but he really had me believing at times, but just such a frustrating match.

In hindsight I realize that Federer never really got solid chances to turn around the Nadal match-up after 2009. Imagine Nadal never having a chance to beat Novak at the FO after AO 2012. We would be looking at him approaching 10 years without overcoming Novak.