Is Federer a BAD match-up for Nadal indoors?

  • Thread starter Deleted member 77403
  • Start date
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
We all know the well documented match up issue that Roger has with Rafa. Rafa's game plan against Roger is very simple - Hit high top spin forehands high up to the single handed backhand. This normally gives Rafa what he wants to win the match.

However, indoors they have played three times, and seven sets. Rafa has lost all three and only won one of the seven sets.

It appears that on the surface, where the ball does not bounce up high to Federer backhand, he actually struggles against Federer. Roger is not troubled by this tactic and can comfortably hit winners off of that wing all day. Once Rafa knew that tactic was not working, he tried to attack the forehand more, and got burned.

He then seem lost not only with groundstrokes, but his serving. He could not counter Roger. All those shots sat up perfectly for Roger and in the end, it was a commanding win.

Amazing what surfaces can do.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
In fact Indoors is a bad match-up for Nadal and his game. Almost every strength he has is denied here.

He still beat Roddick, Berdych, Djokovic and Murray after having several weeks off. Anyone but Federer, and I think he would have won that final.
 

kamakaze

Banned
In fact Indoors is a bad match-up for Nadal and his game. Almost every strength he has is denied here.

You're delusional, how do you make the WTF final without losing a match if the surface is so against him? Along the way beating an on-fire Murray? Stupid *********s.
 

namelessone

Legend
He still beat Roddick, Berdych, Djokovic and Murray after having several weeks off. Anyone but Federer, and I think he would have won that final.

Rafa improved, that's for sure, but he made just 3 INDOOR FINALS in his six years at the top, lost them all and ate bakery products.
 

namelessone

Legend
really?

top spin becomes a slice and a slice becomes a flat ball, and for sure G=9.80665 x 10

Nadal is all spin and the spin is dampened here. Not to mention that the court, while slow, was low bouncing and this is not good for Nadal.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
Federer playing Nadal on indoor HC is like Nadal playing Federer on clay.

Kudos to Rafa for making it to the final of an indoor HC event while also taking a set off Federer in the process. Federer lost one set the entire week and it was to Nadal :)
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Rafa improved, that's for sure, but he made just 3 INDOOR FINALS in his six years at the top, lost them all and ate bakery products.

Take a look at his years at the top.

05 - He won a title, and was injured straight after it. Could not play the WTF.
06 - Played Madrid - where he had the Berdych issue, and then got to semi of WTF to lose to Federer.
07 - Lost Madrid and Paris to Nalbandian who played the tennis of his life. Lost again to Federer in WTF.
08 - Played only Madrid, injured in Paris, and did not play WTF.
09 - We all know what 09 was like for him.
10 - Plays WTF final, loses to Federer.

He hasn't played much on the surface to be honest, and still lost three big matches to Roger at the WTF.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
please explain cause like this you sound like a child from kindergarten

I had to explain to you in another thread the difference between playing indoor and outdoor.

Before degrading another poster you may want to find out the facts first. BTW, he's correct.
 

accidental

Hall of Fame
But Nadal has both the best volleys and best serve on tour, no?

Surely those things make him the heavy favorite on indoor courts like these
 
T

TheMagicianOfPrecision

Guest
Federer playing Nadal on indoor HC is like Nadal playing Federer on clay.

Kudos to Rafa for making it to the final of an indoor HC event while also taking a set off Federer in the process. Federer lost one set the entire week and it was to Nadal :)

And Kudos to Roger for playing lights out both in semi and the final, right?
 

namelessone

Legend
please explain cause like this you sound like a child from kindergarten

This court doesn't take spin well, it's been thoroughly explained over the last week by both posters and commentators. Nadal's balls don't explode off court(like IW or Miami if you will so as not to compare to clay), they just sit up most of the time.
 

Satch

Hall of Fame
I had to explain to you in another thread the difference between playing indoor and outdoor.

Before degrading another poster you may want to find out the facts first. BTW, he's correct.

cant see what spin has to do with differences you have mentioned like bugs wind and helicopters really.... so i ask him to do it.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
However, indoors they have played three times, and seven sets. Rafa has lost all three and only won one of the seven sets.

The variables that exist outdoors are completely absent in indoor conditions. Nadal deals with things like the wind, sun, humidity etc. so much better than most of the field and these are absent indoors, and indoor conditions help all players concentrate and focus that much better, which is actually a disadvantage for Nadal because it moves other players closer to him in these areas.
 

namelessone

Legend
Take a look at his years at the top.

05 - He won a title, and was injured straight after it. Could not play the WTF.
06 - Played Madrid - where he had the Berdych issue, and then got to semi of WTF to lose to Federer.
07 - Lost Madrid and Paris to Nalbandian who played the tennis of his life. Lost again to Federer in WTF.
08 - Played only Madrid, injured in Paris, and did not play WTF.
09 - We all know what 09 was like for him.
10 - Plays WTF final, loses to Federer.

He hasn't played much on the surface to be honest, and still lost three big matches to Roger at the WTF.

You do know that you are actually making my point, right?

When he has played indoors, he has lost badly most of the time(not only to Fed) or barely made it through to the latter stages. It's Nadal worst surface by far. Besides getting beat by Fed, this WTF was actually a breakthrough for him.
 

Satch

Hall of Fame
This court doesn't take spin well, it's been thoroughly explained over the last week by both posters and commentators. Nadal's balls don't explode off court(like IW or Miami if you will so as not to compare to clay), they just sit up most of the time.

but the court itself has nothing to do with the environment. I am talking about conditions of indoor courts like no wind, heat ect.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
To be honest, the indoor season has been whittled away over the years to the point where only Paris Indoor and the WTF are important indoor tournaments. Not even Shanghai is indoor anymore.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
You do know that you are actually making my point, right?

When he has played indoors, he has lost badly most of the time(not only to Fed) or barely made it through to the latter stages. It's Nadal worst surface by far. Besides getting beat by Fed, this WTF was actually a breakthrough for him.

The point I made is that he has hardly played at all during the indoor season, and he still made a few finals. Yes, it is his worst surface, but to say that the guy cannot play on it, when he beats everyone besides Federer on it, is a bit disrespectful to the other players.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
but the court itself has nothing to do with the environment. I am talking about conditions of indoor courts like no wind, heat ect.

Different courts have different playing characteristics. This court favors Federer's game over Nadal's game. The fact it's indoors is a double whammy. If Federer had lost to Nadal today he was pretty much washed up.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
To be honest, the indoor season has been whittled away over the years to the point where only Paris Indoor and the WTF are important indoor tournaments. Not even Shanghai is indoor anymore.

This is my point exactly. So the fact that Nadal ONLY made a few finals is not because he terrible on the surface, it is because there are not many tourneys to play in. He's done well on his worst surface actually considering that, and only really has been trumped by Federer and in 07 by Nalbandian.
 

namelessone

Legend
The point I made is that he has hardly played at all during the indoor season, and he still made a few finals. Yes, it is his worst surface, but to say that the guy cannot play on it, when he beats everyone besides Federer on it, is a bit disrespectful to the other players.

Exaggerating much?

If current Rafa(nevermind 2005-2009 Rafa) plays 10 matches indoors(fast court/low bounce) with the likes of Murray/Djoker/Soderling he wins maybe 2-3 with each. You forget that he almost lost to Roddick and Murray and that he beat a one eyed djokovic who was at least his equal by that point.

Rafa's incredible grit can make matches on most surfaces closer than they should be but he is only a natural on two surfaces: clay and grass.
 

Satch

Hall of Fame
Different courts have different playing characteristics. This court favors Federer's game over Nadal's game. The fact it's indoors is a double whammy. If Federer had lost to Nadal today he was pretty much washed up.

that is a fact, everything else is a BS.

thanks for proving my point.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Exaggerating much?

If current Rafa(nevermind 2005-2009 Rafa) plays 10 matches indoors(fast court/low bounce) with the likes of Murray/Djoker/Soderling he wins maybe 2-3 with each. You forget that he almost lost to Roddick and Murray and that he beat a one eyed djokovic who was at least his equal by that point.

Rafa's incredible grit can make matches on most surfaces closer than they should be but he is only a natural on two surfaces: clay and grass.

He wasn't getting streamrolled by any one those guys either. Remember, Rafa did not play for over a month, comes to an indoor event, and plays against the world's best in all his matches, and beats them. No one retired and gave him the match, he won them.

Yes, he is better on clay and grass, but he has the AO and USO combo, while all those guys you mention above don't. He can certainly play and move on this surface, and this event showed it.
 

Speranza

Hall of Fame
And Kudos to Roger for playing lights out both in semi and the final, right?

Holmes: Kudos only works one way in the world of Bud ;) Credit to **** for anything (even a game,or a set) and the opposite for Roger; no credit at all.

Different courts have different playing characteristics. This court favors Federer's game over Nadal's game. The fact it's indoors is a double whammy. If Federer had lost to Nadal today he was pretty much washed up.

By all means, shoot the little boys starting these ridiculous **** is wubbish threads after today's loss... But I take joy in knowing that Bud felt pain today in watching a loss for his hero against Roger. :)
 
T

TheMagicianOfPrecision

Guest
Holmes: Kudos only works one way in the world of Bud ;) Credit to **** for anything (even a game,or a set) and the opposite for Roger; no credit at all.



By all means, shoot the little boys starting these ridiculous **** is wubbish threads after today's loss... But I take joy in knowing that Bud felt pain today in watching a loss for his hero against Roger. :)

Yeah I know, I know...i was just teasing him :)
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
that is a fact, everything else is a BS.

thanks for proving my point.

Yeah and you know everything, right? :lol: :rolleyes:

You didn't even know the differences between indoor vs outdoor before I explained them to you.
 

coloskier

Legend
In fact Indoors is a bad match-up for Nadal and his game. Almost every strength he has is denied here.

This posts nails it right on the head. Anything that negates his topspin, keeps the ball low, makes the ball skip or move faster than on a natural court, and does not have sunlight, hurts Nadal. There was a reason why he didn't play Bercy, and it wasn't due to injury. He did not want to get put out in an early round, which after today it is very obvious would have happened. He does not like playing indoors. To be honest, neither do I, because I have a hard time seeing indoors, whereas others have no problems.
 
J

Jchurch

Guest
Look everyone.... Just imagine what the match would have looked like if it was a fast indoor court. The courts seemed to be much slower than last year. They purposely slowed them down in order to make a Fed-Nadal final highly likely. they got what they wanted.
 

jackson vile

G.O.A.T.
We all know the well documented match up issue that Roger has with Rafa. Rafa's game plan against Roger is very simple - Hit high top spin forehands high up to the single handed backhand. This normally gives Rafa what he wants to win the match.

However, indoors they have played three times, and seven sets. Rafa has lost all three and only won one of the seven sets.

It appears that on the surface, where the ball does not bounce up high to Federer backhand, he actually struggles against Federer. Roger is not troubled by this tactic and can comfortably hit winners off of that wing all day. Once Rafa knew that tactic was not working, he tried to attack the forehand more, and got burned.

He then seem lost not only with groundstrokes, but his serving. He could not counter Roger. All those shots sat up perfectly for Roger and in the end, it was a commanding win.

Amazing what surfaces can do.




Not Really it was 6-3, 3-6, 1-6 Nadal had no answer and did not know what to do and still took a set 3-6. Previously Nadal could not do too much on hardcourts that was not almost sporadic.

And furthermore, Roger played out of his mind. Roger had to play the best game he has had in many years inorder to win that final.

What a great game.

Really saying "bad match-ups" is lame excuse, Nadal lost because Roger was playing out of his mind!
 
Top