Is Federer mentally weaker than Djokovic and Nadal?

[Shady_Sawyer]

Many of their matches were close with Djokovic edging out Federer example UO 2010 (2 matchpoints) and UO 2011( 2 matchpoints) and the same can be said about his matches with Nadal in W 2008 and AO 2009. Career acomplishments say that Federer is not mentally weak with 16 slams but when we compare him to champions like Nadal and Djokovic it looks like they are tougher than him because they make the most of their chances and dont lose matches after having like 10 matchpoints. Your thoughts.

 

[namelessone]

Many of their matches were close with Djokovic edging out Federer example UO 2010 (2 matchpoints) and UO 2011( 2 matchpoints) and the same can be said about his matches with Nadal in W 2008 and AO 2009. Career acomplishments say that Federer is not mentally weak with 16 slams but when we compare him to champions like Nadal and Djokovic it looks like they are tougher than him because they make the most of their chances and dont lose matches after having like 10 matchpoints. Your thoughts.

 

[Rippy]

Many of their matches were close with Djokovic edging out Federer example UO 2010 (2 matchpoints) and UO 2011( 2 matchpoints) and the same can be said about his matches with Nadal in W 2008 and AO 2009. Career acomplishments say that Federer is not mentally weak with 16 slams but when we compare him to champions like Nadal and Djokovic it looks like they are tougher than him because they make the most of their chances and dont lose matches after having like 10 matchpoints. Your thoughts.

Making matches close doesn't make you mentally weak.

 

[monfed]

Many of their matches were close with Djokovic edging out Federer example UO 2010 (2 matchpoints) and UO 2011( 2 matchpoints) and the same can be said about his matches with Nadal in W 2008 and AO 2009. Career acomplishments say that Federer is not mentally weak with 16 slams but when we compare him to champions like Nadal and Djokovic it looks like they are tougher than him because they make the most of their chances and dont lose matches after having like 10 matchpoints. Your thoughts.

It depends what one means by "mental weakness". If we're measuring a player's clutchness then the playing style is a MAJOR determinant. For example - Nadal looks more clutch than Federer because of how safe he plays and has a bigger margin for error(The net clearance and extreme topspin makes his balls land in and avoids the net). OTOH , Federer's strokes are about timing and precision so he's more prone to errors. (DUH)
So , on big points Nadal would just keep the ball in play and wait for an error which would make him look clutch while Federer would go for a winner and make an UE making him look mentally weak.

I think both Nadal and Federer are mentally on par. I've always felt that grinders/solid players give off this vibe that they're mentally stronger than attacking players/strokemakers. I feel that when a player wins a Grandslam then all talk of him being mentally weak should permanently cease.

 

[djokovic2008]

It depends what one means by "mental weakness". If we're measuring a player's clutchness then the playing style is a MAJOR determinant. For example - Nadal looks more clutch than Federer because of how safe he plays and has a bigger margin for error(The net clearance and extreme topspin makes his balls land in and avoids the net). OTOH , Federer's strokes are about timing and precision so he's more prone to errors. (DUH)
So , on big points Nadal would just keep the ball in play and wait for an error which would make him look clutch while Federer would go for a winner and make an UE making him look mentally weak.
I think both Nadal and Federer are mentally on par. I've always felt that grinders/solid players give off this vibe that they're mentally stronger than attacking players/strokemakers. I feel that when a player wins a Grandslam then all talk of him being mentally weak should permanently cease.

You have a slight point on both the hightlights parts of your text. However on big points nadal win percentage is great especially at saving break points without having a massive serve to save him. It still takes bottle even for a solid player as you still need to keep great length with and just cannot not spin it in at that level are you get crushed.

 

[tata]

I also attitribute this idea due to the fact that Fed plays more infront than from behind. Nole and Rafa can scramble and grind to do whatever it takes to win but IMO Fed pushes himself a bit too much and makes silly errors or rushes with bad shot selection. It's those crucial points that I rekon gets to Fed sometimes when it doesn't go his way. Fed doesn't have that 'fearless' mode where he just goes all out and scrambles.

 

[SLD76]

I dunno, when Nadal showed up to challenge Fed, he still crushed everyone else and only ceded the top spot due to injury and decline.

Meanwhile Rafa looked vulnerable last year. Struggled a bit in some clay tourneys, the curious Isner match, losing to dodig, losing to Mayer.

When is the last time Fed lost to someone outside the top 15?
And before you say Hewitt in 09, Hewitt was a slam champion and former world number 1!

 

[nadalwon2012]

Making matches close doesn't make you mentally weak.

Federer won more points than Nadal in AO 2009. Federer 'made that match close'?

 

[Mortifier]

I also attitribute this idea due to the fact that Fed plays more infront than from behind. Nole and Rafa can scramble and grind to do whatever it takes to win but IMO Fed pushes himself a bit too much and makes silly errors or rushes with bad shot selection. It's those crucial points that I rekon gets to Fed sometimes when it doesn't go his way. Fed doesn't have that 'fearless' mode where he just goes all out and scrambles.

Come on guy. Fed vs Djoko at the French last year. To some extent at the USO as well.

 

[DjokovicForTheWin]

I think it's true that Federer is more likely to fold when faced with adversity or things are not going his way. Nadal is more likely to tough it out.

 

[daddy]

I think it's true that Federer is more likely to fold when faced with adversity or things are not going his way. Nadal is more likely to tough it out.

Ive seen Rafa on more than one occasion where I was really surprised by the way he ... well ... backed out really. He is still a fighter and everything but not the meanest machine on the court he used to be. I think last season did him no good at all regarding this subject.

Akcija

 

[nadalwon2012]

Ive seen Rafa on more than one occasion where I was really surprised by the way he ... well ... backed out really. He is still a fighter and everything but not the meanest machine on the court he used to be. I think last season did him no good at all regarding this subject.

Akcija

Nadal's mental toughness varies from year to year. Was extremely tough mentally in 2008 and 2010. Not so in 2009 and 2011.

 

[daddy]

Nadal's mental toughness varies from year to year. Was extremely tough mentally in 2008 and 2010. Not so in 2009 and 2011.

That is life. Mentally you're as strong as your form is. Simple as that.

Akcija

 

[nadalwon2012]

That is life. Mentally you're as strong as your form is. Simple as that.

Akcija

Was strange in 2011 though, he looked mentally tough vs Federer at RG, and vs Del Potro/Murray at Wimbledon and vs Murray at US Open. 4-1 vs Federer, 4-1 vs Murray. Great year mentally vs all the big guns except for Djokovic. 2009 whereas Nadal had poor results vs a number of players and did not even win a set at World Tour Finals.

 

[daddy]

Was strange in 2011 though, he looked mentally tough vs Federer at RG, and vs Del Potro/Murray at Wimbledon and vs Murray at US Open. 4-1 vs Federer, 4-1 vs Murray. Great year mentally vs all the big guns except for Djokovic. 2009 whereas Nadal had poor results vs a number of players and did not even win a set at World Tour Finals.

But if youre ranked nr 2 and the ONE player who is beating you all around is always but always waiting for you in the final, its tough to stay focused. His mental strenght in 2011 can be questioned form another point of view also - he was about to change coach because of all the things happening with Joker, and we all know that the very same Tony ad the very same system they used for almost a decade got him to where he is - one of the best ever.

Akcija

 

[jackson vile]

Nadal's mental toughness varies from year to year. Was extremely tough mentally in 2008 and 2010. Not so in 2009 and 2011.

AO 2009 certainly had it, IMO seems like Nadal can "Will" wins at times.

 

[sureshs]

His mental weakness is a result of the weakness of his one-handed backhand.

 

[cork_screw]

10 char

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Many of their matches were close with Djokovic edging out Federer example UO 2010 (2 matchpoints) and UO 2011( 2 matchpoints) and the same can be said about his matches with Nadal in W 2008 and AO 2009. Career acomplishments say that Federer is not mentally weak with 16 slams but when we compare him to champions like Nadal and Djokovic it looks like they are tougher than him because they make the most of their chances and dont lose matches after having like 10 matchpoints. Your thoughts.

 

[Netspirit]

Here are some examples of Federer's mental midgetry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgzowfPaHaE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QucxiqErjhw

 

[monfed]

You have a slight point on both the hightlights parts of your text. However on big points nadal win percentage is great especially at saving break points without having a massive serve to save him. It still takes bottle even for a solid player as you still need to keep great length with and just cannot not spin it in at that level are you get crushed.

Nadal never relies on his serve to get him out of trouble in crunch situations, he relies on moonballing the s*** out of his opponent with unheard of RPM. This translates to him saving so many break points since he plays so safe(almost cowardly if you ask me).
It's not like he uses the serve to bail him out like Federer, Sampras, Ivanisevic, Becker do/did.

Nadal at his core is a claycourter. Claycourters dont use their serve as a weapon,look at all the great claycourters of yesteryears. Ofcourse Nadal fans hype him up more than what he really is which is when logic starts going south.

 

[nadalwon2012]

But if youre ranked nr 2 and the ONE player who is beating you all around is always but always waiting for you in the final, its tough to stay focused. His mental strenght in 2011 can be questioned form another point of view also - he was about to change coach because of all the things happening with Joker, and we all know that the very same Tony ad the very same system they used for almost a decade got him to where he is - one of the best ever.

Akcija

Not according to Nadal. The media speculated it and then Nadal said he would never even consider changing coaches.

 

[jackson vile]

Certainly not a mental midget for sure, however at the highest level he is behind people like Novak, Nadal, etc at times. This has become more and more evident over time especially at slams.

Also, I think that those videos confirm a lot, Federer does better the shorter the match such as those played at masters as you have shown.

Here are some examples of Federer's mental midgetry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgzowfPaHaE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QucxiqErjhw

 

[daddy]

Not according to Nadal. The media speculated it and then Nadal said he would never even consider changing coaches.

Heh, the speculations or the negation, be carefull which would you trust more.

 

[nadalwon2012]

Heh, the speculations or the negation, be carefull which would you trust more.

When I read articles, I only actually read the quotes, ignore everything in between.

 

[daddy]

When I read articles, I only actually read the quotes, ignore everything in between.

When there's smoke, there's a fire trust me. It was prolly an option, maybe to iclude someone new to the team or change strategy or even split ...

 

[Clarky21]

When there's smoke, there's a fire trust me. It was prolly an option, maybe to iclude someone new to the team or change strategy or even split ...

You are wrong. Nadal never said anything about changing coaches,and actually said that he will keep Toni on as his coach until either Toni no longer wants the job,or until he retires from tennis. There is/was absolutely no talk of Nadal changing coaches to be able to deal with Norman. Stop making things up.

 

[daddy]

You are wrong. Nadal never said anything about changing coaches,and actually said that he will keep Toni on as his coach until either Toni no longer wants the job,or until he retires from tennis. There is/was absolutely no talk of Nadal changing coaches to be able to deal with Norman. Stop making things up.

When I say where's smoke I mean if ANYONE is talking about it ... I never said Rafa mentioned it therefor I did not made anything up. Read carefully, and drop the attitude, no need for it cause Im pretty down to earth guy.

 

[Clarky21]

When I say where's smoke I mean if ANYONE is talking about it ... I never said Rafa mentioned it therefor I did not made anything up. Read carefully, and drop the attitude, no need for it cause Im pretty down to earth guy.

There is no fire therefore there is no smoke. The only people that matter when talking about whether or not Nadal is changing coaches is Nadal,and he has said that he isn't going to. I for one would love to see him hire on another coach to help with his serve,but the only way that will happen is if h*ll freezes over. Nadal is ocd,stubborn,and extremely resistant to change. He will never fire Toni in a million years.

 

[nadalwon2012]

Where there is smoke, there is crap, trust me. That's what I've learned most from the media.

 

[djokovic2008]

Nadal never relies on his serve to get him out of trouble in crunch situations, he relies on moonballing the s*** out of his opponent with unheard of RPM. This translates to him saving so many break points since he plays so safe(almost cowardly if you ask me).
It's not like he uses the serve to bail him out like Federer, Sampras, Ivanisevic, Becker do/did.

Nadal at his core is a claycourter. Claycourters dont use their serve as a weapon,look at all the great claycourters of yesteryears. Ofcourse Nadal fans hype him up more than what he really is which is when logic starts going south.

I am not a ******* but you have to respect someone who cannot rely on a big serve to get him out of trouble like others can to win so many break points against him is pretty tough.

 

[DjokovicForTheWin]

Serve is the most important stroke in tennis.

 

[Polaris]

Strange question. After watching so much tennis, OP should find it obvious that in terms of mental strength: Nadal > Federer > Djokovic. It is abundantly clear that (except in 2011), when the going gets tough:
1) Nadal fights.
2) Federer sulks.
3) Djokovic quits.

The situation in 2011 was slightly different, but it still does not change the pattern seen over their careers.

 

[jackson vile]

It will be interesting what we see in 2012

Strange question. After watching so much tennis, OP should find it obvious that in terms of mental strength:

Nadal > Federer > Djokovic.

1) When the going gets tough, Nadal fights.
2) When the going gets tough, Federer sulks.
3) When the going gets tough, Djokovic quits.

The situation in 2011 was slightly different, but it still does not change the pattern seen over their careers.

 

[nadalwon2012]

Serve is the most important stroke in tennis.

 

[jackson vile]

Not, no, moe...

 

[gregor.b]

It depends what one means by "mental weakness". If we're measuring a player's clutchness then the playing style is a MAJOR determinant. For example - Nadal looks more clutch than Federer because of how safe he plays and has a bigger margin for error(The net clearance and extreme topspin makes his balls land in and avoids the net). OTOH , Federer's strokes are about timing and precision so he's more prone to errors. (DUH)
So , on big points Nadal would just keep the ball in play and wait for an error which would make him look clutch while Federer would go for a winner and make an UE making him look mentally weak.

I think both Nadal and Federer are mentally on par. I've always felt that grinders/solid players give off this vibe that they're mentally stronger than attacking players/strokemakers. I feel that when a player wins a Grandslam then all talk of him being mentally weak should permanently cease.

Because of this (the safeness of shot choice over and over and over), you could almost argue for Nadal being mentally weaker because he does not have the true belief in his own ability to win the point and thus allowing the opponent (in this case Fed) to lose it.
That being said,Djoko not so much. He is happy to blast that back hand DTL for the winner on almost every occasion.

 

[jackson vile]

Novak was edged out in his fair share of USO as well. However, that is one of Federer's weaknesses and always has been.

Many of their matches were close with Djokovic edging out Federer example UO 2010 (2 matchpoints) and UO 2011( 2 matchpoints) and the same can be said about his matches with Nadal in W 2008 and AO 2009. Career acomplishments say that Federer is not mentally weak with 16 slams but when we compare him to champions like Nadal and Djokovic it looks like they are tougher than him because they make the most of their chances and dont lose matches after having like 10 matchpoints. Your thoughts.

 

[PCXL-Fan]

Shady Sawyer: You sight past examples from 3-4 years ago for Federer.

You forget the Chokovic moniker they gave him, episodes of choking througout the past 3-4 years.

Chokes against Tsonga. Chokes against Nadal. Chokes against Federer.

 

[PCXL-Fan]

http://t e n n i s p l a n e t.typepad.com/blog/2011/07/nicknames-of-some-great-and-not-so-great-tennis-players-from-rafafan-jenny-thanks.html?cid=6a01348876d6bd970c01538fa4a608970b

 

[Apun94]

It depends what one means by "mental weakness". If we're measuring a player's clutchness then the playing style is a MAJOR determinant. For example - Nadal looks more clutch than Federer because of how safe he plays and has a bigger margin for error(The net clearance and extreme topspin makes his balls land in and avoids the net). OTOH , Federer's strokes are about timing and precision so he's more prone to errors. (DUH)
So , on big points Nadal would just keep the ball in play and wait for an error which would make him look clutch while Federer would go for a winner and make an UE making him look mentally weak.

I think both Nadal and Federer are mentally on par. I've always felt that grinders/solid players give off this vibe that they're mentally stronger than attacking players/strokemakers. I feel that when a player wins a Grandslam then all talk of him being mentally weak should permanently cease.

Here's the thing. Even if Rafa's topspins send the ball over the net, due to nervousness the ball can easily sail over the baseline. IMO, Rafa is a bit mentally stronger. Thats one of his biggest strengths and he relies on it so much. Rafa plays his best in pressure situations. Thats one of the reasons hes at the top. Even when he was a rookie, he never choked. Most players wudve been very nervous playing against Fed at RG 05 or at Miami 04 or against Rodik in DC 04. Rafa's naturally mentally stronger than anyone else. Others learn that by experience. Look at joker, he only became mentally stronger in '11. Fed struggled in his youth and learned mental toughness after playing for 2-3 years.

 

[jackson vile]

Here's the thing. Even if Rafa's topspins send the ball over the net, due to nervousness the ball can easily sail over the baseline. IMO, Rafa is a bit mentally stronger. Thats one of his biggest strengths and he relies on it so much. Rafa plays his best in pressure situations. Thats one of the reasons hes at the top. Even when he was a rookie, he never choked. Most players wudve been very nervous playing against Fed at RG 05 or at Miami 04 or against Rodik in DC 04. Rafa's naturally mentally stronger than anyone else. Others learn that by experience. Look at joker, he only became mentally stronger in '11. Fed struggled in his youth and learned mental toughness after playing for 2-3 years.

This is correct, and it paid off big time for Novak. Just think, USO 2011 was all but over for Novak. In stead of tightening up he went for it and stayed with it, as a result he won that USO. Same for other matches against Nadal, at the top tennis is almost all mental.