Is Federer still the most accomplished player at 7 of the 14 biggest tournaments in tennis - compared to Djokovic/Nadal

[Djokovic2015]

Ah yeah that's true, but it was 2nd clay in 2009 as well wasn't it? I'm pretty sure it moved to 3rd clay and has never gone back to 2nd since. Also it's kind of impossible to group hamburg/madrid but if we use the slots then Rome has sometimes been 3rd clay and sometimes second, kind of messes everything up

3rd clay has been:
Hamburg 00-08
Madrid 09-10
Rome 11-present

2nd clay has been:
Rome 00-10
Madrid 11-present

If you go by slots, this is what you would have to use.

 

[axlrose]

Events which Fedr is No.1:

AO: Fedr, less titles than Djoko but won on different surfaces
IW: Fedr, more finals than Djoko
Miami: Fedr, higher peak than Djoko
Madrid: Fedr, same reason with AO
RG: Fedr, Fedr beats peak Soderling, who beats peak Ned so Fedr triumphs all
Wimby: ???
Cincy: Yeah!
USO: 5 > 3 > 3
WTF: simply no contest here!

 

[Deleted member 716271]

LOL at putting Novak ahead of the Fraud at RG.

1 RG + 4 RU > 1 RG + 3 RU

RG 13 SF was a defacto final man , not sure you could say the same about RG 05 SF

It's close anough anyhow IMO that we should look at other things.

Novak has simply handled Rafa better both on clay and to a smaller, but noticeable extent at RG, I don't think the argument that Nadal wasn't at his peak really holds water when you look at some of Fed's losses over the years to Rafa at RG, never really getting close to a win.

Even throwing out the 15 loss to Novak because of Rafa's atrocious form, look at the SF in 13 , never seen Federer get that close to Rafa at the French. 13 may not be peak Rafa on clay, but it was good enough that I dont think you can asterisk it as a rubbish Nadal or anything.

A better argument might be that Novak matches up better with Rafa than Federer which is true, but I don't see how you can't count how they perform against the GOAT of GOATS on the surface as a sort of tiebreaker when they are so close otherwise. It's disengenuous not to.

 

[KINGROGER]

AO - Djokovic
IW - Federer
Miami - Djokovic

MC - Nadal
Rome - Nadal
Hamburg/Madrid - Federer

Wimbledon - Federer

Canada - Djokovic
Cincinnati - Federer
USO - Federer

Madrid indoors/Shanghai - Djokovic (Fed with higher level)
Paris - Djokovic
YEC - Federer

 

[KINGROGER]

RG 13 SF was a defacto final man , not sure you could say the same about RG 05 SF

It's close anough anyhow IMO that we should look at other things.

Novak has simply handled Rafa better both on clay and to a smaller, but noticeable extent at RG, I don't think the argument that Nadal wasn't at his peak really holds water when you look at some of Fed's losses over the years to Rafa at RG, never really getting close to a win.

Even throwing out the 15 loss to Novak because of Rafa's atrocious form, look at the SF in 13 , never seen Federer get that close to Rafa at the French. 13 may not be peak Rafa on clay, but it was good enough that I dont think you can asterisk it as a rubbish Nadal or anything.

A better argument might be that Novak matches up better with Rafa than Federer which is true, but I don't see how you can't count how they perform against the GOAT of GOATS on the surface as a sort of tiebreaker when they are so close otherwise. It's disengenuous not to.

Djokovic lost to Kohlschreiber, Melzer, Federer, Nadal, Wawrinka from 2008-2016.

Federer lost to Kuerten, Nadal, Soderling, Djokovic from 2004-2012.

Not much in it. Give 06-07 Fed Wawrinka and Murray and we’d be looking at a CYGS.

 

[peRFect King]

hi all , Big 3 are enjoying & focusing on their carrear, you guys please don't waste time on comparing them, lets wait for all of them to retire, then we can conclude at the end

 

[Deleted member 716271]

Djokovic lost to Kohlschreiber, Melzer, Federer, Nadal, Wawrinka from 2008-2016.

Federer lost to Kuerten, Nadal, Soderling, Djokovic from 2004-2012.

Not much in it. Give 06-07 Fed Wawrinka and Murray and we’d be looking at a CYGS.

So you rate Federer over him at RG?

 

[KINGROGER]

So you rate Federer over him at RG?

Slightly but they’re pretty much even, with Djokovic being slightly better overall on clay.

 

[Deleted member 716271]

Slightly but they’re pretty much even, with Djokovic being slightly better overall on clay.

Can you agree Djokovic played Nadal clearly better at RG, or do you attribute that solely to Nadal not being at his peak in those matches

 

[KINGROGER]

Can you agree Djokovic played Nadal clearly better at RG, or do you attribute that solely to Nadal not being at his peak in those matches

Yeah 2013 clearly proved that.

 

[Deleted member 716271]

Yeah 2013 clearly proved that.

That's why I just think Djokovic has the edge. That has to matter some when it's so close.

The argument that Federer would have won if he faced Wawrinka? Well he needed Nadal out of the way to win the 1 he did win. Now to be fair Djokovic never beat Nadal to win RG , and the version he did beat was severely compromised...but he was in the 5th set in 13. Point being I don't know if you can just hand Fed 2 titles hypothetically if he was facing the field Djokovic did in his prime.

I could flip it and say Djokovic would have won 2 if he had played Soderling in the final instead of Wawrinka, no?

I think these 2 are so close that to me how you handle the GOAT of GOATS on the surface can be the tiebreaker.

 

[King No1e]

Federer is better than Djokovic at the AO.
Right.
You forgot he's better than Nadal at the RG too.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

AO - Djokovic
IW - Federer
Miami - Djokovic

MC - Nadal
Rome - Nadal
Hamburg/Madrid - Federer

Wimbledon - Federer

Canada - Djokovic
Cincinnati - Federer
USO - Federer

Madrid indoors/Shanghai - Djokovic (Fed with higher level)
Paris - Djokovic
YEC - Federer

Fed 6, Djok 5, Ned 3 (clay only). Fed and Djok are close (possible Djok overtakes at IW and makes it 6>5 for himself), but 3-1 at the topmost level (AO vs Wim-USO-YEC, RG being tied and both got crushed by Rafa anyway) gives Fed solid advantage.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Federer is better than Djokovic at the AO.
Right.
You forgot he's better than Nadal at the RG too.

I thought the thread title said 'more accomplished', no?
At this point Federer can still be argued as the highest achiever at the AO due to his myriad semis. Djokovic absolutely should win more and shut this, of course.