Is Federer the tragic hero

roysid

Legend
As i saw djokovic won his 9th AO, I was thinking about Federer. His achievements are huge: 20 grand slams, 8 Wimbledon's, 310 weeks at no.1, 6 YEC and not mention the popularity.

Before him, nobody has achieved what he has done.

Still what will be more remembered is how his main rivals surpassed him, beat him in several grand slams, superior H2H and bound to cross slam count. Masters count is long gone. and now weeks at no.1 .

Even when he rose from the phoenix and overcome one opponent and won 3 more slams, another opponent came back and gave him the most crashing defeat ever.

He is a hero all right, but is he a tragic hero. Will this facts make him sad.


I've seen older reports on how Borg couldn't handle US Open loss year after year and just quit. He was also universally popular like Federer. I wondered what he had felt.


Today after 30 years, nobody cares Borg quit at 26 and much more he could have achieved. I wonder what people will think after another 30 years
 

roysid

Legend
Millenials man. Nobody cares about Borg according to them :laughing: 5 times consecutive Wimby and 6 time RG champion. Nobody cares? Please
Actually nobody cares what happened to Borg that he quit abruptly at 1981. Amazing records by that time. 11 slams with 5 consecutive W
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Well, Fed has himself to blame for even being surpassed. He failed to win several key matches and that eventually came back to bite him in the rear.

But the difference between Fed and Djokodal is that Djokodal have yet to experience a changing of the guard moment. They are still not underdogs despite being in their mid 30's.

The last changing of the guard moment occurred in 2011 when Djokovic took over from Nadal. 10 years later and everyone else is so useless that Djokovic has not had to experience that moment at all.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I think so. Most players have to deal with one dangerous opponent.
Sampras - Agassi
Graf - Seles
Chris - Martina

But Roger after being tormented by Rafa had to face another more cockier more dangerous opponent who denied his fav. slams again and again
Well, it's just bad timing with Fed. He got that cockier opponent when he was approaching his 30's. Harder to do something about it in that case.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Yes, Federer is Oepidus. He killed his father and married his mother. Mirka has yet to be informed.
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
As i saw djokovic won his 9th AO, I was thinking about Federer. His achievements are huge: 20 grand slams, 8 Wimbledon's, 310 weeks at no.1, 6 YEC and not mention the popularity.

Before him, nobody has achieved what he has done.

Still what will be more remembered is how his main rivals surpassed him, beat him in several grand slams, superior H2H and bound to cross slam count. Masters count is long gone. and now weeks at no.1 .

Even when he rose from the phoenix and overcome one opponent and won 3 more slams, another opponent came back and gave him the most crashing defeat ever.

He is a hero all right, but is he a tragic hero. Will this facts make him sad.


I've seen older reports on how Borg couldn't handle US Open loss year after year and just quit. He was also universally popular like Federer. I wondered what he had felt.


Today after 30 years, nobody cares Borg quit at 26 and much more he could have achieved. I wonder what people will think after another 30 years

No it won't make him sad. It's just a sport, sometimes you win (in Rogers case he has won pretty much everything and in crazy amounts), and sometimes you lose, wich he also has done. Very normal.

He still has some years left to even win more. We are talking as if Federer never won anything, guy has well over 100 titles and 20 slams.
 

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
Well, Fed has himself to blame for even being surpassed. He failed to win several key matches and that eventually came back to bite him in the rear.

But the difference between Fed and Djokodal is that Djokodal have yet to experience a changing of the guard moment. They are still not underdogs despite being in their mid 30's.

The last changing of the guard moment occurred in 2011 when Djokovic took over from Nadal. 10 years later and everyone else is so useless that Djokovic has not had to experience that moment at all.
As if Nadal never lost key matches. He did, and many.
 

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
No it won't make him sad. It's just a sport, sometimes you win (in Rogers case he has won pretty much everything and in crazy amounts), and sometimes you lose, wich he also has done. Very normal.

He still has some years left to even win more. We are talking as if Federer never won anything, guy has well over 100 titles and 20 slams.
Thing is, Federer is now losing some big records. I think even his most crazy fans accepted long time ago that he isn't as great at Wimbledon as Nadal is in RG. However, Djokovic becoming greater in AO than Federer is at Wimbledon is something that wasn't very expected, but now it is the case.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
His career would be considered that of a tragic hero only if you think being universally acclaimed after his retirement as the third best tennis player in history is tragic. When Sampras retired, that was probably a position held by Laver or Borg and no one thought of them as tragic heros - they were just considered legends of the game who were eclipsed by a younger rival as always happens in sport. Records are meant to be broken, but history fondly remembers those who set the all-time records still.
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
Thing is, Federer is now losing some big records. I think even his most crazy fans accepted long time ago that he isn't as great at Wimbledon as Nadal is in RG. However, Djokovic becoming greater in AO than Federer is at Wimbledon is something that wasn't very expected, but now it is the case.

Wimbledon and AO are two seperate tournaments. Even when that thread was made I didn't understand the point of it. Federer still has the Wimbledon record, and Novak has AO record. Why compare.
 

Poisoned Slice

Bionic Poster
All hail, MacRoger. Thou shalt be surpassed hereafter.
yeah.png
 

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
Not as many as Federer.

And he did his thing at RG anyway every year to make up for those.
Nadal lost lots of key matches in AO and Wimbledon. I don't think there is any slam where Federer and Djokovic missed so many chances as Nadal did in AO. It's true that he probably overachieved in RG a bit, but he really missed chances at the other slams.
 

Krish0608

G.O.A.T.
Thing is, Federer is now losing some big records. I think even his most crazy fans accepted long time ago that he isn't as great at Wimbledon as Nadal is in RG. However, Djokovic becoming greater in AO than Federer is at Wimbledon is something that wasn't very expected, but now it is the case.
This comparison across tournaments makes no sense. They are different tournaments played on different surfaces.
Djokovic is at 9 AO, 3 ahead of the second best, Federer at 6. Similarly, Federer at Wim is on 8, 3 ahead of the 2nd best, Djokovic at 5. Djokovic might get a few more Wimbledons. We'll see.
 

roysid

Legend
Nadal lost lots of key matches in AO and Wimbledon. I don't think there is any slam where Federer and Djokovic missed so many chances as Nadal did in AO. It's true that he probably overachieved in RG a bit, but he really missed chances at the other slams.
Federer , 3 5 set final losses at W
 

roysid

Legend
No it won't make him sad. It's just a sport, sometimes you win (in Rogers case he has won pretty much everything and in crazy amounts), and sometimes you lose, wich he also has done. Very normal.

He still has some years left to even win more. We are talking as if Federer never won anything, guy has well over 100 titles and 20 slams.
He's on his last leg. Another 3-4 tournaments max at tha he of 40
 

roysid

Legend
Well, Fed has himself to blame for even being surpassed. He failed to win several key matches and that eventually came back to bite him in the rear.

But the difference between Fed and Djokodal is that Djokodal have yet to experience a changing of the guard moment. They are still not underdogs despite being in their mid 30's.

The last changing of the guard moment occurred in 2011 when Djokovic took over from Nadal. 10 years later and everyone else is so useless that Djokovic has not had to experience that moment at all.
Fully agree with you.

Not able to close key matches has dented him.
AO 2009, USO 2009, W2014 and of course W2019.
Also losing Tsonga match, Anderson match was wastw
 
O

OhYes

Guest
Fed made it tough for himself - he stayed so long in the game both clearing youngsters on his own/mocking them through his fanbase, and showing Djokodal that age is just a number.

Further more, I don't think Fed is the greatest. He will be placed where he actually belongs - third wheeler. Nothing bad about that.
 

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
Millenials man. Nobody cares about Borg according to them :laughing: 5 times consecutive Wimby and 6 time RG champion. Nobody cares? Please

What makes you think nobody cares?

Borg made a decision to quit. No one held a gun to his head.

There cannot be speculation that had he kept playing, he'd have racked up 20+ majors.

The fact that he quit shows he wasn't motivated any longer anyway so he most likely wouldn't have won much had he continued.

If you want to argue that had he kept playing with high motivation levels then he'd have possibly won more than 20, then you're talking about a different player.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Most tennis fans care about Borg including many on TTW including me. I don't know what you are on about.
I stopped reading when I got to the part about Borg. And yes, of course, Fed’s “tragic” career, such scintillating analysis one only stumbles upon on TTW.

Since Fed is such a forgettable non-entity with 20 slams, I wonder how the OP would characterize the careers of Pete, Andre, Lendl, Mac or Connors? I guess we can dismiss those legends too. Pathetic rationale and truly idiotic post.
 

beard

Legend
Who cares what ignorants think?

BTW, your own example should tell you a lot: Borg is pretty much in the conversation, despite of quitting so young.

:cool:
Good parallel, Borg and Federer, we will mention Federer mostly in the same context, as most popular in his era, that he earned most money, while other two were better tennis players who gave the world best tennis fight of all times...
 
Good parallel, Borg and Federer, we will mention Federer mostly in the same context, as most popular in his era, that he earned most money, while other two were better tennis players who gave the world best tennis fight of all times...

Like I said, who cares what the ignorants think.

:cool:
 

Forehanderer

Professional
What makes you think nobody cares?

Borg made a decision to quit. No one held a gun to his head.

There cannot be speculation that had he kept playing, he'd have racked up 20+ majors.

The fact that he quit shows he wasn't motivated any longer anyway so he most likely wouldn't have won much had he continued.

If you want to argue that had he kept playing with high motivation levels then he'd have possibly won more than 20, then you're talking about a different player.
I was responding to the OP who said nobody cares about borg. maybe I forgot to put a question mark after the sentence. Why so edgy? I didn't say it infact I said the exact opposite. Borg is an ATG and will always be part of tennis history. I'm not arguing about what he may or may not have achieved if he had continued
 

beard

Legend
Like I said, who cares what the ignorants think.

:cool:
Its you who is ignorant... Just search forum and you will find numerous topics where Fed fans emphasize his popularity and money he earned as great achievement...

Yeah, Fed will be remembered as most popular, and richest of his generation... In tennis terms he will be known as goat who was surpassed by two greater players...

You heard about Sampras? He is often mentioned as former goat surpassed by three greats in short time... That's Fed destiny...
 

Britanian

Rookie
It's true that the yougest generaly don't know as much as the oldest about past. Not so much people are interested in btw.
Because tennis is an untertainment .. we want to know what happens now, we want to support, we want to love & hate players. to be happy or sad by watching them on a court (& outside the court too unfortunately).

Just a few want to know about TENNIS, most people want to have a good time with tennis.

Nobody have told something earlier than Borg in this post ... lol
Does it means we are all ignorant ? That we forgot the 100 first years of tennis history ? That Laver or Tilden count less for us ?
No but it's not xhat create the most enflamed debate today ... as Borg for the youngest ... they talk about Agassi & Sampras as I talk about the 70's ... the decade when I was born.

World goes on ... I'm sure some young people love TENNIS & want to know as much as I & You do =)
 

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
I stopped reading when I got to the part about Borg. And yes, of course, Fed’s “tragic” career, such scintillating analysis one only stumbles upon on TTW.

Since Fed is such a forgettable non-entity with 20 slams, I wonder how the OP would characterize the careers of Pete, Andre, Lendl, Mac or Connors? I guess we can dismiss those legends too. Pathetic rationale and truly idiotic post.
Obviously Roger's getting graded on a different curve. Andre, Lendl, Mac and Connors were never in the GOAT debate, let alone actually considered to be so during their career like Fed was.
 
What makes you think nobody cares?

Borg made a decision to quit. No one held a gun to his head.

There cannot be speculation that had he kept playing, he'd have racked up 20+ majors.

The fact that he quit shows he wasn't motivated any longer anyway so he most likely wouldn't have won much had he continued.

If you want to argue that had he kept playing with high motivation levels then he'd have possibly won more than 20, then you're talking about a different player.

Borg was receiving death threats while preparing for Majors finals, and ATP was giving him grief for not wanting to break his back to promote them, so it is yet another ignorant comment from the likes of you.

:cool:
 

Start da Game

Hall of Fame
As i saw djokovic won his 9th AO, I was thinking about Federer. His achievements are huge: 20 grand slams, 8 Wimbledon's, 310 weeks at no.1, 6 YEC and not mention the popularity.

Before him, nobody has achieved what he has done.

Still what will be more remembered is how his main rivals surpassed him, beat him in several grand slams, superior H2H and bound to cross slam count. Masters count is long gone. and now weeks at no.1 .

Even when he rose from the phoenix and overcome one opponent and won 3 more slams, another opponent came back and gave him the most crashing defeat ever.

He is a hero all right, but is he a tragic hero. Will this facts make him sad.


I've seen older reports on how Borg couldn't handle US Open loss year after year and just quit. He was also universally popular like Federer. I wondered what he had felt.


Today after 30 years, nobody cares Borg quit at 26 and much more he could have achieved. I wonder what people will think after another 30 years

it is actually the curse of pete fans........pete was made fun of in 2009 - 2010 saying that he got to enjoy the slam-record only for 7 years post retirement while laver and co before him enjoyed for longer periods........even karma was infuriated with that and it could not wait for 7 years past fed's retirement, it bit back fedlovers so fast that they are not even fortunate to send-off their idol with the slam-record........
 
Its you who is ignorant... Just search forum and you will find numerous topics where Fed fans emphasize his popularity and money he earned as great achievement...

Yeah, Fed will be remembered as most popular, and richest of his generation... In tennis terms he will be known as goat who was surpassed by two greater players...

You heard about Sampras? He is often mentioned as former goat surpassed by three greats in short time... That's Fed destiny...

Yes, I know that the knowledge of the likes of you consists of knowing about the threads about who is the most popular or the richest.

Now do me a favour ....

:cool:
 

jga111

Hall of Fame
No.

Fed is a one hander- flamboyant - and successful.

These heroes always preside over the mental-bots
 
Just relax man... I know it's hard time watching Rafa and Novak winning 10/11 last slams and leaving Fed in the dust on all fields... But, it's only tennis... :cool:

It is you who just admitted that you have been tied in a knot, so you are not even that good at trolling ...

:cool:
 

BrooklynNY

Hall of Fame
Agree, Sampras was surpassed by three, Fed just by two... ;)

The difference is Sampras put up his numbers and retired. He could not do much to prevent Federer from topping his marks.

Federer is being surpassed while he is an active player. He had every bit of chance to prevent people from passing him, and could/did not - it's part of why he is still playing at 40.

To me it's more devastating to be unable to stop people from passing you, when clearly you're trying.
 
The difference is Sampras put up his numbers and retired. He could not do much to prevent Federer from topping his marks.

Federer is being surpassed while he is an active player. He had every bit of chance to prevent people from passing him, and could/did not - it's part of why he is still playing at 40.

To me it's more devastating to be unable to stop people from passing you, when clearly you're trying.

Clearly, Feddie boy should have retired at 31.

:-D
 
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