Is football and basketball really the reason why american tennis suffers?
- Thread starter dominikk1985
- Start date
toddrobert38
Rookie
I agree re:clay courts.
In modern tennis it's better to learn on clay how to develop points.
JustBob
Hall of Fame
Yes.
In 2006, when Tennis Canada hired Louis Borfiga (former Director of Coaching - Tennis, at INSEP in France) to be Director of Elite Player Development, you know what's the first thing he said when he got here? "Where are the clay courts?" A few years and 13 million dollars later, there are now clay courts on the roof of the main building (clever solution because of lack of space) of the national training center at Uniprix Stadium in Montreal. He also implemented new structures (a real "system") for elite player development which have started to bear fruit. See my earlier post #49.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Roddick and Isner, crappy? Ryan Harrison doesn't have talent? Wow! That doesn't say much for most of the ATP or the other 7+ billion people on the planet. The hyperbole is a bit much.
FrontHeadlock
Hall of Fame
I always hate this "fact". What does it even mean anyway?
If you're not taking defense into account, major league guys, and really guys at all levels, are hitting the ball fairly frequently. Is there a stat that shows what % of at-bats have balls put in play? I'd imagine it's fairly high.
In any event, is this really harder than a lot of things? How about throwing a TD pass (how many TD's are thrown per attempt)? How about running a sub 10 second 100m? How about getting a pin in wrestling? How about scoring a goal in soccer? How about a triple-double in basketball? Those happen with much less regularity.
I never liked this "fact" either. I love baseball but it always seemed to be a fact that only a baseball freak would love. It is difficult. But it is one of those things in sport that are done by everyone on the team over and over. I just dont know how it quantifiable in any way as the most difficult thing to do in sports. More difficult that a day long mountain climb in the tour de france? Come on. And actually is it more difficult than hitting a cricket ball? Or even some crazy trick a skate border does that only like 10 other guys on the planet can do? One thing that baseball and soccer fans have in common is they tend to romantisize their favorite sports to a level that is almost cult like.
max
Legend
here are some reasons:
1---kids in the US learn baseball and basketball at a MUCH earlier age than tennis; then as they get older, there's a natural tendency to move toward sports with which they are more familiar.
2---the sports pages don't cover tennis; the local public doesn't attend high school tennis events, while the local football and basketball games are the most attended stuff the HS puts on. If you're a kid and you want adulation and peer respect, tennis ain't the way to get any.
3---tennis is perceived as a sissy sport played by the inept. Credit Bill Tilden's activities for this.
4---US television promotes the heck out of football and basketball and baseball (these consume plenty of hours of air time). These bring big ad revenue to the networks.
5---tennis takes too long to learn. There's a distinct lack of immediate gratification. The US is a self-indulgent nation, so immediate gratification counts for very much.
6---team sports provide identity and rewards/prizes/trophies.
7---the established pro teams pay lots of money in baseball, basketball, hockey and football.
8---coaching for the Major Sports comes pretty much free, via local park districts, etc., and volunteering parents. This works well for team sports, but not very well at all for individual sports, so individual sports suffer.
9---you can't hit the other guy in tennis.
1---kids in the US learn baseball and basketball at a MUCH earlier age than tennis; then as they get older, there's a natural tendency to move toward sports with which they are more familiar.
2---the sports pages don't cover tennis; the local public doesn't attend high school tennis events, while the local football and basketball games are the most attended stuff the HS puts on. If you're a kid and you want adulation and peer respect, tennis ain't the way to get any.
3---tennis is perceived as a sissy sport played by the inept. Credit Bill Tilden's activities for this.
4---US television promotes the heck out of football and basketball and baseball (these consume plenty of hours of air time). These bring big ad revenue to the networks.
5---tennis takes too long to learn. There's a distinct lack of immediate gratification. The US is a self-indulgent nation, so immediate gratification counts for very much.
6---team sports provide identity and rewards/prizes/trophies.
7---the established pro teams pay lots of money in baseball, basketball, hockey and football.
8---coaching for the Major Sports comes pretty much free, via local park districts, etc., and volunteering parents. This works well for team sports, but not very well at all for individual sports, so individual sports suffer.
9---you can't hit the other guy in tennis.
Actually, on a related matter. I have no doubt that just as in less popular sports (say handball) the level of athleticism and raw talent is inferior to other more popular sports - It only makes sense to assume that it's true for tennis too, and that had such Athletes as Messi with his speed and change of direction, or Lebron, probably the greatest sports specimen I can remember - had they or their likes focused on tennis instead of basketball, football or soccer, they would have demolished current competition.
But tennis has less money, less fame, and is harder to play on the streets, which really eliminates so much of the potential.
But tennis has less money, less fame, and is harder to play on the streets, which really eliminates so much of the potential.
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
Messi would never have broken the top 3000 of pro tennis players. Stunted growth and pathetic phisique will do that. Tennis is not as forgiving as you make it out to be.
Perhaps (although there are smallish people on the tour).
But more importantly, How about Lebron or Kobe or Brady? I mean, talk about Isner's serve, I have to assume that Brady could have served 5 mph more, with enhanced accuracy. Talk about Nadal's speed and strength, and than think what someone like Lebron could have done.
But more importantly, How about Lebron or Kobe or Brady? I mean, talk about Isner's serve, I have to assume that Brady could have served 5 mph more, with enhanced accuracy. Talk about Nadal's speed and strength, and than think what someone like Lebron could have done.
FrontHeadlock
Hall of Fame
But at Lebron's size he might have diminished endurance, or his lateral quickness might not be as good. Or he might have difficulty with low slices. Plus, and I've seen this many times, you don't know how someone who is successful at team sports would do in an individual sport, particularly one were coming through the ranks offers little attention and hoopla.
Athletic abilities can definitely translate sport to sport, and I have no doubt that some players in the NBA, NFL, EPL, etc, would be very good tennis players, just as I have no doubt that certain tennis players could have been very good in other sports. What I don't think is right is to assume that just because LeBron's particular skill set and makeup is the best in basketball that he would be at or near the same level in another sport. We simply don't know the answer to that.
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Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
Praetorian
Professional
Lebron would have been a Monfils at best
And, Nadal\Federer\Djokovic\Murray however, would struggle in the NBA Development league.
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
I didn't come up with the silly anaolgy.
Praetorian
Professional
I'd like to add to this if I may.
1 - Guys like Agassi was starting tennis before he could even walk, so I don't think that's always the case. However, kids are mostly social creatures, and football, and basketball allow them to have more fun being social.
2 - True, the only people who appreciate tennis accomplishments are usually those who are interested in Tennis. The tendency for a tennis players to be interested in another sports news, is a WHOLE LOT MORE greater than, say a basketball player interested in a tennis players accomplishments.
3 - Don't know about this, I think a lot of people just don't care either way.
4-9, all true.
Also, one has to consider the cost of development in playing tennis. I'll compare it to my high school days. On the tennis team, I had to pay for my own rackets (strings, overgrip, bags, etc.), shoes, clothing. Also, in order to get better as a tennis player, I also had pay for tournaments, and in Hawaii, if I wanted to pay a national tournament, that also meant paying for airfare, and hotel. So suffice to say, I didn't play national tournaments, and was relegated to playing the people in Hawaii, which is basically like playing in the league. There's just a certain level of competition needed to get better, which wasn't there.
Now let's take my basketball team experience. I paid for shoes, and my own basketball. Uniforms was provided. I wasn't good enough to even consider going to national camps. There were some guys on my team who went on to play college ball (Div 1, Div 2, JC).
My point is, Tennis, is inherently a much more expensive sport to play and excel in, while sports like football, and basketball are not, and there are a lot of athletes in basketball, and football, who probably could have excelled if given the opportunity, however, the costs prohibited them from doing so.
TERRASTAR18
Hall of Fame
don't take things so literal. isner and roddick are two dimensional players who got exposed by better players.......harrison is highly overrated. don't come in here starting an argument.
JustBob
Hall of Fame
We were discussing skills involving hand-eye coordination, hence why I brought up "segments" and how length negatively impact that metric. So I wasn't arguing that baseball is the most difficult sport to play, just the skill of hitting a baseball on it's own. Obviously the degree of difficulty of running 100m meters is based on other metrics: strength, power, speed,...
If you look at the 'HAN' column in the following table, the highest scores are (almost) all associated with sports which use longer segments (baseball, tennis, racketball/squash, table tennis,...).
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/sportSkills#
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