Is it all about calories or does insulin play a bigger role in fat accumulation?

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by FedTheMan, Mar 29, 2018.

?

What makes you fat?

Poll closed Apr 12, 2018.
  1. Too many calories taken in versus not enough being burned

    50.0%
  2. Insulin due to eating too many carbohydrates

    50.0%
  1. FedTheMan

    FedTheMan Professional

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    All doctors believe in calories in/ calories out. However, not all bodies behave equally to the same caloric intake.

    The alternate weight loss theory is to focus on whole (real) nutritious food that is minimally processed. Do not ignore your hunger and instead listen to your body and eat when you feel hungry. Eat tons of vegetables and meats that are of high quality and cook them at home. Try it for 4 weeks; what have you got to lose? Even if you gain a few pounds, at least you tried.

    People are really afraid of trying out new theories and they don't understand that it takes time for your body to adjust to a new way of eating and then the weight will drop.

    As I stated in my original post:

    For weight loss: eat real meats (whole eggs, chicken, ground beef, steak, fish) and leafy green vegetables (spinach, kale, lettuce)

    For maintenance: eat real meats (whole eggs, chicken, ground beef, steak, fish) and all vegetables.

    Also check out this post: http://live.smashthefat.com/why-i-didnt-get-fat/
     
    arnott likes this.
    #51
  2. arnott

    arnott Rookie

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    LCHF/keto is not new, if you check the Banting diet it is from the 1860s. And diets similar to that were followed before that.
     
    #52
  3. FedTheMan

    FedTheMan Professional

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    You are correct. "New" was not the proper word to use there and I should have used "alternate" instead. Just because something works for one person does not mean that it is the only solution. Try out multiple diets.
     
    #53
  4. travlerajm

    travlerajm Legend

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    The CICO formula has an error in it.

    The correct Calories balance formula is:

    Calories Absorbed = Calories In - Calories Burned - Calories Passed

    As we all know, focusing on cutting caloric intake or exercising more is difficult. But focusing on increasing the ratio of Calories Passed to Calories Absorbed is relative easy. Just eat more fiber!

    The more fiber you eat, the the faster your food gets pushed through the system before the calories can be absorbed.
     
    #54
  5. FiReFTW

    FiReFTW Hall of Fame

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    Insulin has nothing to do with making you fat.

    Read this if you are really interested:

    https://www.muscleforlife.com/how-insulin-works/


    There are many gurus out there that want to get money by feeding lies to people in order to sell their products, but the truth is, eating less calories than burning means you will burn fat, and this is a scientific proven fact that is undisputable.

    People get too caught by what some people are saying (in order to make money) and don't have a great understanding on how things work, so they get fooled very easily by those people who put up convincing arguments but very flawed ones.

    Losing fat is 100% about EATING LESS ENERGY THAN YOU BURN THROUGHOUT THE DAY, HENCE THE LEFT ENERGY YOU NEED AND DON'T GET FROM FOOD HAS TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE : YOUR BODY RESERVES

    - Eat lower carbs = you lose fat ... guess what, cutting all those carbs made you also cut a lot of calories.. and in most cases people eat alot of very calorie dense carbs like sweets, cutting that by alot means you cut a ton of calories
    - Guess what, cutting fat also makes you lose fat as proven in scientific studies, as does cutting protein as long as your eating less calories than you burn throughout the day
    - People overestimate the amount of food they eat or cut and are bad at judging calories... so alot of studies are not accurate.. but guess what we have metabolic chambers where they get groups of people together and they live in a room and the scientists feed them food and measure using advanced equipement how much energy they consume and burn throughout the day, there is not a SINGLE STUDY where this was controlled where people got fat eating less calories that they burned.
    - Its still not recommended to cut protein when losing weight, because protein is the most satiating macronutrient of all, meaning if you cut protein you will be more hungry and eat more calories overall, and if you increase protein you will be more filled and eat less calories because you won't be as hungry, ultimately its still the calories that make you lose weight, but increasing protein helps eating less
    - Some people think that some people seem to eat a ton of food while others don't.. but there are many people that don't really eat a big quantity of food and yet they eat snickers bars and very high calorie foods, while others eat alot of vegetables, meat etc... so the 2nd person might eat like 5-6 times the amount of food, but they actually eat a similar amount of calories... there are also huge differences in activity level, michael phelps ate 8000-9000 calories when training for olympics because he was so super active and swimming 10 hours per day... a normal person would get fat on 5000 calories, so you can't possibly judge how much calories someone eats and burns unless you have complete overview of them daily 24/7 and count their food and somewhat get a guesstimate of their daily calorie expendature

    There are some things that somewhat affect some things, like:

    Protein needs more calories to be processed and broken down by the body compared to carbs and fat, so eating more protein naturally makes you eat a bit less even if its the same calories, if you ate 600 calories of protein your body would need like 200 calories just to break that down... while it may need only 50-100 calories to break down 600 calories of fat or carbs.

    Also during the day there is a thing called NEAT, which is your subconsious movements of the body, some people have very low NEAT levels, while others have a high NEAT level, where they constantly do alot of subconsious things like fidgeting etc.. and hence burn more calories

    But at the end of the day, it only matters that you eat less than you burn

    Its a fact that losing weight is about consuming less energy than your body expends during the day, this has been completely proven in the last few years, so its quite funny how so many people on forums still claim its not the case.
     
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    #55
  6. moonballs

    moonballs Hall of Fame

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    I am pretty good in terms staying away from processed foods and sugar. The only indulgence is couple of beers over the weekend (no drinks during the work week) and the only snacks I indulge is is Trader Joe’s salted roasted sunflower seeds in shell. But over the last six month my body fat has gone from 17% to 23%, while I am still doing the same exercises in gym. Is the sunflower seed snack, usually eaten after dinner, likely the culprit of this?
     
    #56
  7. travlerajm

    travlerajm Legend

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    Sunflower oil is poison. It's almost pure omega-6 - highly pro-inflammatory.

    The shells are healthy though - good roughage.
     
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  8. moonballs

    moonballs Hall of Fame

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    Thanks, didn’t know that.

    What about the particular form of omega 6 in sunflower oil, linolenic acid is deemed “inactive” according to the first summary by the search below, does it make it less bad?
    https://www.google.com/search?q=sunflower+seed+omega+6+content
     
    #58
  9. travlerajm

    travlerajm Legend

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    I've heard that, but not sure if the bad oil really does get deactivated. I know it doesn't when I OD on pistachios.

    I developed a hypersensitivity to pro-inflammatory oils a few years ago. I would feel sore in my entire abdominal area the next day whenever I consumed a bag of potato chips or other food containing sunflower oil. Avoiding sunflower oil in my diet (which is in many processed foods), and eating mostly low-omega-6 oils (avocado, olive, canola) helped me feel a lot better.
     
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  10. Curious

    Curious Hall of Fame

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    Stop looking for excuses ( for the majority). Eat healthy, natural, unprocessed food, stop comfort eating, be active. There wasn't an obesity problem in the world a 100 years ago.
     
    #60
  11. Stretchy Man

    Stretchy Man Professional

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    No one was obsessed about eating "natural, unprocessed food" either.
     
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  12. Curious

    Curious Hall of Fame

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    There was no need to be!
     
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  13. sredna42

    sredna42 Semi-Pro

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    LOL I am living an even more extreme version of your ideal example (out of medical necessity)
    I cut out all potato/bread/pasta/rice/grains/etc last year
    I also do not eat red meat/chicken at all
    I don't even eat cooked food for the most part. Just fish, or tinned fish.

    I eat mostly fish, raw vegetables, fruit, nuts, milk, cheese, avocado, nuts. I only eat vegetables that are not too bulky (tomato, spinach, onion, parsley, spring onion, cucumber, capsicum, etc) and not stuff like carrot or corn or potato etc which are just bread but "dressed up".

    I lost 20kg very quickly.

    Of course it is different for me, because I had to do this in order in eliminate any load upon my stomach, and anything which could trigger yet another migraine, but the fringe benefits have been illuminating. I am shredded now, and feel better than I have in a long time.

    But like anything, it will work for some people, but not for others.
    Most people would not be able to process as much dairy as what I can for example, I believe different ethnicities will have different enzyme profiles/abilities to cope with different food sources, and one should be conscious of that. Whereas grains/rice/bread was literally killing me.

    Also I've found you need surprisingly less food to get by than you think. And also, that when you eat bread/potato, it just makes you more hungry than you were before you ate it (inappropriate insulin response)

    Sugary drinks, and sugar in coffee/tea is the last "vice" I have to give up. But funnily enough, even after drinking a sickly sweet coffee, I get not "insulin spike" rebound hunger. Only after rice/pasta/bread etc.

    To my mind, "energy in-energy out" is only initially useful in weightloss. Insulin/enzymes/hormones/metabolism/genetics/etc play a huge role in what the body decides to do with the energy consumed. Some habitually obese people IMO should not bother too much with kj in~kj outside of halting obviously excessive kj intake, and address more their metabolic response to calorie restriction/insulin response/overall hormone profile. I have a suspicion that if the body is in a balance, so the brain-body machinery is working as it should, then the brain will register satiety at the appropriate time, and not be triggering a state of hunger perpetually.

    But yeah, the accurate workings of the human machine are somewhere down this path IMO, and not just "kj in~kj out"

    Just a topic that interests me, as I've been forced to go down this road, but I understand that my post count is very low therefore I can not possibly have any grasp of anything on TTW.
     
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  14. Curious

    Curious Hall of Fame

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    Let's not get lost in details.
    You rarely see a fat cat or a horse or lion, or a pigeon. I think humans are supposed to look like the first picture not the second.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    #64
  15. FedTheMan

    FedTheMan Professional

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    Thanks very much for your input. I'm glad you are feeling better these days as I can understand how important feeling healthy is and if your body is in constant pain, it takes the joy out of life. Take care!
     
    #65
  16. sredna42

    sredna42 Semi-Pro

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    Aren't you the guy who makes posts dissecting the post modern theoretical quantum mechanics of forehand swing mechanics?

    LOL I'd rather not look like I was attacked with a whipper snipper before having my teeth smashed out with a ball pein hammer. But seriously though, yes the human machinery is not adapted to modern living. You'll probably find these interesting
    http://discovermagazine.com/1987/may/02-the-worst-mistake-in-the-history-of-the-human-race
    http://toothbody.com/incredible-shrinking-modern-jaw/
     
    #66
  17. Curious

    Curious Hall of Fame

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    I knew this was coming! Good attention to detail anyway. I was just trying to emphasize my point.:D
    Will read the articles later.
     
    #67
  18. sredna42

    sredna42 Semi-Pro

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    LOL! That's the spirit!

    Another interesting study was one done into the modern western diet and its effects on australian aboriginal people, it gives them diabetes, and truck loads of other health issues, when they used to be healthy as ****. I can't find it now though
     
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  19. Curious

    Curious Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, I sadly have firsthand experience about that here in Australia.
     
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  20. ChaelAZ

    ChaelAZ Hall of Fame

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    Read thought Chapter 3 & 4. Chapter 3 had some great information on insulin and such.

    Nutrition and Cardiometabolic Health

    Bottom line I always find is, what gives the BEST weight loss is, pick you dietary model and consistently apply it every day over a long period of time. All of them work, and none of them have substantially greater or less impact. If you feel you have enough energy and are losing weight, awesome. You feel something isn't working, switch and find something awesome.
     
    #70

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