Is it all downhill for Nadal now?

jussumman

jussumman

Hall of Fame
Has he peaked in his ATP point total and never come back to match this stat again?

Other than the FO and any clay tournaments, his maximum play on the other surfaces seems to have reached its peak and now on the downside. First the devastating loss to Wawrinka at AO, now on the ropes in the round of 64 against Stepanek and finally Dolgopolov dismissing him. Only injury time off with another round of special treatment will save him from falling.

I think the Indian Wells tournament (which is really what a slam would look like if you had best of 3 sets scheduled) is revealing that Nadal's factor to success is the long best of 5 sets attrition battles, and once you take away that (or his own health downgrades even a little bit) he's not such an invincible warrior.

I don't see him ever reaching the heights again. Though it will be interesting to follow how long his dominance will continue on clay/FO..
 
It's downhill until he regains the #2 ranking.

Then he'll be Rafael "The Impossible Underdog Warrior" Nadal again.

He really is the greatest #2 of all time.
 
WhiskeyEE said:
It's downhill until he regains the #2 ranking.

Then he'll be Rafael "The Impossible Underdog Warrior" Nadal again.

He really is the greatest #2 of all time.
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Not to attack Nadal, but I really belief there is some sort of truth to this. I think that somewhere to a certain level he needs this state of mind to produce his best tennis. Of course this doesn't apply to gravel.

This is actually contrary to Federer, who is a front runner and he gets confident from being ahead or being #1.

Not judging or saying that one is better than the other (before I get attacked), I just think that it is a fair assessment of their mental "comfort zones".
 
Yes it is. Grinders like Wilander were burnt out at 27. With his style of play even with some vitamins it's downhill going forward.
 
I feel he is taking overload on his body. If he is smart he should have skipped Miami to build for Clay+Grass. I was expecting this result in IW. He is human, one after another keep on playing so surely body will go for toss.
 
batz said:
Not all downhill no. I suspect he'll enter the Slalom and possibly the Super G.
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slight preference for free-fall here. :)

1zhtzp.jpg
 
He's got golf to turn to when all is said and done as well. Of course after his training for the Slalom and possibly the Super G.
 
Fully healed one year and "injured" the next year is a repeat pattern for Nadal. So don't be surprised if he shows up as a dominant force next year. And this year has just started, it is just one GS final that he has lost. If he loses early at RG then it might be a cause for concern(if you are a Nadal fan).
 
People like to compare him to Borg; but Borg never regressed technically as Nadal seems more and more to do.

The guy refuses to improve his technique and bases everything on grinding.
Why change anything when things seem to go well.
Simple as that.

Rafael's most absurd and obvious tactical mistake is his obsession to return serve while 2 meters behind the baseline.

When i see that i feel like shooting his trainer (if he has one).
 
At the AO in his loss to Wawrinka,he kept standing 2 metres or more behind the baseline on return of serve.

From that position with the weight of Wawrinka's shots he was not able to take ascendancy of the points.

He got bossed about prior to his injury big time.

Nadal is like a football player who relies on his legs too much. Footballers usually lose their legs and around 27,remember Michael Owen.

Nadal needs to stand further up the court,cutting the angles off.
 
Nope, Nadal is going to have a three Slam year.

The stem cell treatment he's had on his knees means he is a lock for Wimbledon, and the confidence from winning yet another Channel Slam will carry him to US Open glory.
 
tennis_hack said:
Nope, Nadal is going to have a three Slam year.

The stem cell treatment he's had on his knees means he is a lock for Wimbledon, and the confidence from winning yet another Channel Slam will carry him to US Open glory.
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But what about the back? You know that little pinch in the back that Uncle Toni referred to? Will stem cell fix that or a cocktail of PRP & some physio?
 
jussumman said:
Has he peaked in his ATP point total and never come back to match this stat again?

Other than the FO and any clay tournaments, his maximum play on the other surfaces seems to have reached its peak and now on the downside. First the devastating loss to Wawrinka at AO, now on the ropes in the round of 64 against Stepanek and finally Dolgopolov dismissing him. Only injury time off with another round of special treatment will save him from falling.

I think the Indian Wells tournament (which is really what a slam would look like if you had best of 3 sets scheduled) is revealing that Nadal's factor to success is the long best of 5 sets attrition battles, and once you take away that (or his own health downgrades even a little bit) he's not such an invincible warrior.

I don't see him ever reaching the heights again. Though it will be interesting to follow how long his dominance will continue on clay/FO..
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Can I say I am more of a Federer fan that a Nadal fan (even so I view Nadal as an awesome player). But you are absolutely kidding right?

One loss at Indian Wells (the Wawrinka loss was clearly due to the back injury) and you are saying this?

How are you going to handle it when it re-bounds in a tournament or two? Write a retraction?

Players lose matches....even great ones.....it is reality that on certain days everything doesn't click.

You make this kind of posting after perhaps a year of bad play not the loss of one match (narrowly lost).
 
jelle v said:
Not to attack Nadal, but I really belief there is some sort of truth to this. I think that somewhere to a certain level he needs this state of mind to produce his best tennis. Of course this doesn't apply to gravel.

This is actually contrary to Federer, who is a front runner and he gets confident from being ahead or being #1.

Not judging or saying that one is better than the other (before I get attacked), I just think that it is a fair assessment of their mental "comfort zones".
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AGREE. Nadal is totally comfortable in the "hunter" mode. And not the hunted one. It's because he was raised to be the hunter. It does reveal a huge flaw. Because if you only know how to hunt, and can't be absolutely assured as to how you fend off all prey, and have the courage and commitment to do it when it matters, it means you eventually fall victim to the new hunter. And there always will be a new, better, more innovative hunter.
 
timnz said:
Can I say I am more of a Federer fan that a Nadal fan (even so I view Nadal as an awesome player). But you are absolutely kidding right?

One loss at Indian Wells (the Wawrinka loss was clearly due to the back injury) and you are saying this?

How are you going to handle it when it re-bounds in a tournament or two? Write a retraction?

Players lose matches....even great ones.....it is reality that on certain days everything doesn't click.

You make this kind of posting after perhaps a year of bad play not the loss of one match (narrowly lost).
Click to expand...

The fact is that when RNadal loses, he looks like a shell of himself, that's the observation.
 
timnz said:
Can I say I am more of a Federer fan that a Nadal fan (even so I view Nadal as an awesome player). But you are absolutely kidding right?

One loss at Indian Wells (the Wawrinka loss was clearly due to the back injury) and you are saying this?

How are you going to handle it when it re-bounds in a tournament or two? Write a retraction?

Players lose matches....even great ones.....it is reality that on certain days everything doesn't click.

You make this kind of posting after perhaps a year of bad play not the loss of one match (narrowly lost).
Click to expand...

I'll man up to it if he gets back to this many points he's had and doesn't go downhill.
 
jussumman said:
I'll man up to it if he gets back to this many points he's had and doesn't go downhill.
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LOL. DO you realize how many hundreds of "Nadal is finished/he'll never win another slam/tournament/he's on the decline" threads there were when
he lost Wimbledon vs Rosol, and again VS Darcis I might add.

But I'll let his 2013 record speak for himself.

The Spanish Bull will be back. Guaranteed.
 
Hell I wish he wouldn't even play ( at least put major effort into these tick tack tourneys. It should be all Slam minded for Nadal. Nothing but slam wins.

Nadal's biggest problem in his career has been scheduling. He can't take a Federer or Djoker schedule with his type of play
 
It will be curtains for Nadal when he loses his beloved RG. Till then, No plz stop OP. Haven't you learnt anything from 13' at all?
 
monfed said:
It will be curtains for Nadal when he loses his beloved RG. Till then, No plz stop OP. Haven't you learnt anything from 13' at all?
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Yes, it was all over for Nadal in 2009, no?

Then again in 2012.

Guess what? Nadal seems to enjoy proving you haters wrong and ruining your party. LOL
 
Physically, he may be getting older, but he is still playing great tennis. I think he will maintain his top 4 status for quite some more time. We can only make a correct judgement at the end of this year. During a season, a player can go through good and bad period. He may be on a bad cycle now.
 
Hahaha........typical TW fanboy/hater reaction. Djokovic loses.....He's out, never to be number 1 again.
Nadal loses.......he's out, declining to oblivion. Federer wins.......he'll win the FO, Wimbledon, etc etc. :twisted:
 
beast of mallorca said:
Hahaha........typical TW fanboy/hater reaction. Djokovic loses.....He's out, never to be number 1 again.
Nadal loses.......he's out, declining to oblivion. Federer wins.......he'll win the FO, Wimbledon, etc etc. :twisted:
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lol okay I understand, but this is the 1st time I've made such a statement here on the tw forum. I'm saying for Nadal about surfaces outside of FO of course. We'll see.
 
Mustard said:
People are overreacting.
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This. Last time I checked, he's still a solid #1, with a massive lead in points over the rest of the flock.

That said, nothing lasts forever, and just like it happened to every great player before him, there will come a time when it's no longer a given for him to win 'every' match. It's the natural course of things.
Whether this time has already arrived for Nadal remains to be seen.
 
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jussumman said:
lol okay I understand, but this is the 1st time I've made such a statement here on the tw forum. I'm saying for Nadal about surfaces outside of FO of course. We'll see.
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Is he playing well? No. He's way to passive and defensive and not making enough of his shots.
Is he playing bad enough to warrant decline speculation? Not yet. If he really has been struggling with his back, it's natural that his timing and confidence is a bit off and he retracts to more defensive - more comfort-zone - positions.

People were overreacting to his fantastic HC results last year. Now they are overreacting to a couple of losses.
He's not the top player on HC. But he's one of the favorites for every outdoor HC tournament he enters. Clay - of course. Grass - anything can happen there, don't believe he's won his last grass tournament just yet (though I think it's a 50-50/40-60 whether he'll win another Wimbledon)
 
What's happened to the Nadal who used to hit huge balls 5 inches from the top of the net. What's with those ineffective loopy balls?
 
Nadal is a great player who has a tremendous physical advantage over many of the players he plays. Players are getting more fit and when Nadal is not 100% it causes problems for him on the court.
 
I don't think it will all go downhill for Nadal, it might become a bumpy road just like the last couple of years have been for Federer, but I still believe he will remain a top guy.

I mean did anyone truly believe Nadal was going to maintain his 2013 level for 2014 and beyond? Rewind 6 months ago, everyone thought Nadal was the GOAT, was going to easily win another 5-6 slams and surpass Federer. With his current result, people are talking about retirement, declining etc... which is kind of sad. People have such short attention span these days, they jump from one opinion to another very easily. Nadal said it himself, he can't make every tournament final, and he's entirely right, you can't expect a player to make every final of every tournament, week-in and week-out for a complete season. When everyone was on the Nadal bandwagon last year, people all underestimated the effect of being fresh off an 8 month hiatus. Now that Nadal has been playing consistently for a year, like everyone else, he's showing that he's human.

If you go beyond Nadal, 2014 has been a rather very interesting season so far. The top 4 (Djokovic, Nadal, Federer, Murray) don't appear to be as dominant as before, they're aura of invincibility has finally cooled off a bit. None of them have been really cruising through the early rounds at IW, Djokovic & Murray have both dropped sets since the beginning of the tournament. Federer is the only one who's been winning in straight sets, but he's had rough patches during matches, so I wouldn't call that dominating either.

I get the feeling that we're slowly entering a transition phase where the top guys aren't as dominating as they were, therefore more prone to upsets in the early rounds. I do feel that this is more due to top guys slightly declining than it is about younger players really pushing them. The only young player that has impressed me enough to believe he's got a future as a top guy is Dimitrov, but even that remains to be seen. Wawrinka is playing with confidence now, but he doesn't exactly qualify as a young guy either, he's got about 2 years before he reaches 30...

Back to Nadal, I feel that the way he's being judged right now isn't fair. Losing a major final with a bad back and limited movement and an early loss at a MS-1000 aren't really indicative of anything, it's just too early to tell if this will be the "new" Nadal or just a rough patch like 2013 has been for Federer. The clay swing is quickly approaching, I'm pretty sure he will use that to replenish his energy and find his confidence again.
 
Well, the downhill WILL come, we will actually see later on if it happened in early 2014 or not.

I think a lot of people here tend to forget that in what, 2 months and a bit, Nadal will turn 28.That's quite a bit over the hill even for guys that DIDN'T start winning big on their 19th birthday. Perhaps even moreso for a grinder like Rafa.

When 2014 is over Rafa will have spent a decade at the top of men's tennis.

We shouldn't expect him to perform like in the past, regardless of surface.

Have some perspective people.
 
terribleIVAN said:
People like to compare him to Borg; but Borg never regressed technically as Nadal seems more and more to do.

The guy refuses to improve his technique and bases everything on grinding.
Why change anything when things seem to go well.
Simple as that.

Rafael's most absurd and obvious tactical mistake is his obsession to return serve while 2 meters behind the baseline.

When i see that i feel like shooting his trainer (if he has one).
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what evidence you're looking at but Nadal's strokes have changed dramatically in his career, most notably his serve and his forehand. Through the years, he has been hitting his forehand flatter and earlier outside of clay. His serve motion and results have also changed a lot. But you're right, he's still very defensive on returns.
Nonetheless, I think this myth of him being a "grinder" has gone on a bit too long. Yes, he grinds down Fed but that's because it works. Against most other players, he's pretty aggressive. Nadal just happens to also be one of the best defensive players in history. He's really somewhere between an aggressive baseliner and a grinder. In fact, while Djokovic's game translates better on hard courts because he tends to hit earlier and flatter, Nadal is actually better at transitioning from defense to offense.
 
back injuries tend to be more persistent than others but not as acute.

this is actually more worrying to me than Nadal's knees...

Hopefully his camp will take Nadal's stretching, and other preventive care, more seriously. to me Nadal seems to do the least in this aspect compared to other great/elite players; or at least it isn't publiscized nearly as much.

we all know about Nole's 2hrs of stretching each day and not eating a carb for years at a time. while Nadal does shrimp and pasta commercials...
 
TheRed said:
I'm not sure what evidence you're looking at but Nadal's strokes have changed dramatically in his career, most notably his serve and his forehand. Through the years, he has been hitting his forehand flatter and earlier outside of clay. His serve motion and results have also changed a lot. But you're right, he's still very defensive on returns.
Nonetheless, I think this myth of him being a "grinder" has gone on a bit too long. Yes, he grinds down Fed but that's because it works. Against most other players, he's pretty aggressive. Nadal just happens to also be one of the best defensive players in history. He's really somewhere between an aggressive baseliner and a grinder. In fact, while Djokovic's game translates better on hard courts because he tends to hit earlier and flatter, Nadal is actually better at transitioning from defense to offense.
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great reply to one of the many forum fallacies regarding Nadal on this message board!
 
arent we being abit too premature here....being a fed fan it is always interesting to read nadal comments on TW be it after a loss or a win

the exaggeration is mind boggling on either end of the spectrum
 
How come the guys that beat Rafa get no credit for the effort? I guess Nadal only loses when something is wrong with him; it's never the other guy.
 
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