Federers 2014-2016 was as unlucky as it can possibly get. He was winning 60% of serve games, which is ATG level, but didnt get paid off with a single slam. Its probably the only three year period in tennis history which wouldnt leave him with at least a slam, because he was facing younger absolute peak Djokovic.
I do think the opinion of players who PLAYED the greats at their best is really relevant. Nadal has all but admitted Federer was the greatest he played, albeit as politely as possible. I am sure around 2010 time there was a video doing the rounds where players in the top 20 were asked who the greatest player was that they had faced at the time was and Nadal had a few votes, but Federer got the most, including from Djokovic.
Djokovic was more successful, obviously, but longevity is up for debate. The massive contrast in their success is because Federer spent his 31-35 years in the toughest period in tennis in the past 30 years while Djokovic the exact opposite. Really, their age 38 years support that the difference in their levels is not large at all. Federer 2019 > Djokovic 2025 so far, but this could still change.
Sure, but Djokodal at 32 and 33 still arguably played at higher levels than Sinneraz have so far
Yeah don’t get me wrong. I only think 38 year old Djoko beating 30+ Sinneraz in succession is not completely out of this world (we don’t know how they will be at that age). I don’t think though beating them would match Fed’s achievement, neither now and even less a hypothetical 32/33 old versions of them.
Love that comparison.
fed had ALWAYS negative h2h vs rafa (7-13 in his own era), had negative h2h vs muzza (4-6 in his own era) up to cinci14 (when he wos 33) and vs nole since AO16! he actually IMPROVED massively his h2h vs rafa from 2015 (after he was 34) and muzza from 2009 (he was 28). in both cases after his era (peak, prime what even you want) and when he already, according to his fans, got old! he got worse ONLY vs nole. and nole who got much better vs all AND he, muzza and rafa are PEERS!!! nole had positive h2h in BOTH his eras vs ALL players that he played more than few times! if nole get negative h2h vs sinner and raz it will happen after he got 38 at least and vs players that are 15-16 years younger than him. and one of them was failed twice to doping and was very favorable treated by establishment just for play at all!
but both he and rafa had got it (or, at least, very favorable treatment that was even against the rules if you like it more) and that is the fact! it could just help them to improve their slam stats not do it worse to them!
no, both of them. as said before, muzza got to opposite side than fed each time even if he was not top4 seed. why should muzza (big4 member), as clearly best player outside of big3, be better for rafa outside of clay than any other player who was 5-8 or 9-16 seed?
muzza - fed
WRONG.
of course.
That's not what your fellow Federer fans were saying for the last 10 years. They said 2014-2016 was ultra weak. You guys are also trying to pick one age, 38, and come to the conclusion that this means Federer was either better or their levels weren't all that different throughout their 30s. The difference is, Djokovic has smashed all the records where no one can reach them for at least decades and has completed the game, and has nothing left to prove. He has no one on his heels pushing him or threatening his records, which is totally different to Federer at the same age. Reality is, Djokovic was just consistently a better player day in and day out at 31-35 and if anybody is truly being objective they can see that.
This is called trying to have your cake and eat it too. Before, it was Djokodal were so declined and the only reason they were winning at 32 and 33 was because of weak competition and Federer being old. Now, it's that at that age they were better than 21/22 and 23/24 year old Alcaraz and Sinner, guys with much fresher legs? I thought they were winning because there were no young ATGs but now they were better at 32/33 than the young ATGs? You guys are all over the place. One thing for sure, an age difference of 22 and 24 compared to 38 is massive. It's not between 38 compared to 32 and 33.
I will speak what I truly believe. LOL
yes! it is just that nole was better and more versatile player than fed and rafa old or young! rafa was best of 3 as very young ages.
so fed won 60% of slams in that period!
i don't overeating muzza. just write the facts! yes denko had 6-1 vs rafa on HC winning last 6 HC matches. and that is why he was always on opposite part of the HC slams! but muzza had positive h2h vs roger and that why he was always on the opposite side of the draw up to 2011. also the fact.Mooza was a loser before 2011, none of your stats will change facts. Even Davydenko has a winning h2h over nadal in bo3, that means nothing, So please stop overrating Mooza
Well what you believe is mostly nonsense, like Federer being greater than Djokovic. Djokovic was the best player in the world for 12 years and no one else in the modern era can say that. That's a long period of "vulturing". Of course when you dominate that long you will end up smashing all the records, but keep believing it's because of "vulturing" as if he didn't win virtually all the head to head records against his rivals.
Sweeping 3 slams + YEC aged 34/36 tells us the story.
Even at those declined ages they were still better than Raz and Sinner so far, unfortunately. Raz is still losing to Djokovic after all.
yes, a beautiful GOAT story.
I thought they were winning because there were no young ATGs though? Isn't that what you and other Federer fans said? Aren't Alcaraz and Sinner young ATGs in the making?
That’s also true, but Sinner and Raz simply still have some improving to do, especially Raz. He lost to an injured old Djokovic in BO5 just recently
He didn’t do it over these young ATGs half his age, let’s not re-write history.
An average conversation on this cesspit of a forum with a Big 3 acolyte:
The goalposts just never stop moving. You will destroy your own argument to somehow try to prove Federer had it tougher.
What other people say about 2014-2016 has nothing to do with me, so I don’t know what’s the point of mentioning this. Federer turned 30 in 2011 during the peak of the big 4 years, so there’s much more than to his 30’s competition than 2014-2016. Do you acknowledge that Federer’s 30’s competition was the most difficult in the past 30 years or not? Difficulty of competition is also relative. 2014-2016 is harder for Federer than for Djokovic because he has to go through peak Djokovic.
but they fixed draw to fed to avoid him anyway. that he won 2 finals vs young muzza who had positive h2h vs fed does not mean that he would win if they met earlier when the pressure is less. and muzza did win 2 very important best of 5 matches vs fed. olympic final on feds best court in easy 3 sets and AO13 SF in 5 sets. fed is 5-2 vs muzza in best of 5 matches (71%). so muzza was not so impotent. if muzza (who is peer with nole and rafa) was impotent in best of 5 vs fed the lion so was lion impotent vs rafa and nole (only 34%). if we take away masters and DC matches so was he 4-11 (27%) vs rafa and 6-11 (35%) vs nole. therein finals he was 3-7 (30%) vs rafa and 1-4 vs nole (20%), while he was 3-1 vs muzza (75%).
3 slams seasons in your mid thirties is outrageous, egregious, preposterous.I guess if Djokovic did it, you would have said he inflated his numbers to get there, but since your idol did it, lets marvel at his longevity.
Well done Nadal!
The lack of an off season at the end of 2012 really hurt his form coming into 2013 thanks to the south America tour lol.
yes of course!
Don't think anyone in the open era has done more than 5 in a row. Pre-open Era Tilden won 6 USO in a row, there's probably other streaks that aren't coming to mind as well.
