Is it hard for college players with ATP points to maintain their level once they leave college?

[jcgatennismom]

I was looking at Winston Salem Futures results. Ryan Shane, NCAA #1 2015 lost to freshman Brandon Holt in 1st round. Dominic Koepfer, a former ITA #1 from 2016 (Tulane), also lost in 1st round. He had won matches in European challengers recently and is ranked around #350 but loses in a US Future R32. That is how hard US futures are-maybe due to the fact the US does not get its pro rata share compared to Europe so those who do make it into the main draw are very talented (there are guys with sub UTR 13s with ATP points who played elsewhere-most guys in US Future main draws are UTR 14+). These results also show how much impact just a year of college training can make, and on the other hand, how being away from college just a year or two can bring down a player's game. Maybe I am reading too much into the results of a few matches, but it seems players should stay in college for their 4 years, as once they leave, they will have a hard time replicating the level of play and practice unless they are good enough to get WCs into high level tourneys, e.g Norrie getting into Aegon. His decision does make sense since he has shown he can beat a top 100 ATP player.

Are players allowed once they graduate to go back and just hit with team when they are in town, or do they have to go off campus if they want to hit? Just curious... I guess some of them could return as volunteer coaches and then return to the tour when they are ready-that has happened before.

Tommy Paul who originally signed with UGA and then decided to go pro instead was another top seed to fall in first round. He was ranked around 200 in April of last year and now is about 400. Maybe the message to the guys who didnt go to college or have been out a few years is not to play Futures in the US just a few weeks after the NCAAs because the college players will be on a hot streak...They should have played the one in Turkey instead. Lots of guys get their first ATP points in Turkey, Egypt, etc

 

[Southerncharm]

You are almost as annoying as Lisa, hmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[Nacho]

I was looking at Winston Salem Futures results. Ryan Shane, NCAA #1 2015 lost to freshman Brandon Holt in 1st round. Dominic Koepfer, a former ITA #1 from 2016 (Tulane), also lost in 1st round. He had won matches in European challengers recently and is ranked around #350 but loses in a US Future R32. That is how hard US futures are-maybe due to the fact the US does not get its pro rata share compared to Europe so those who do make it into the main draw are very talented (there are guys with sub UTR 13s with ATP points who played elsewhere-most guys in US Future main draws are UTR 14+). These results also show how much impact just a year of college training can make, and on the other hand, how being away from college just a year or two can bring down a player's game. Maybe I am reading too much into the results of a few matches, but it seems players should stay in college for their 4 years, as once they leave, they will have a hard time replicating the level of play and practice unless they are good enough to get WCs into high level tourneys, e.g Norrie getting into Aegon. His decision does make sense since he has shown he can beat a top 100 ATP player.

Are players allowed once they graduate to go back and just hit with team when they are in town, or do they have to go off campus if they want to hit? Just curious... I guess some of them could return as volunteer coaches and then return to the tour when they are ready-that has happened before.

Tommy Paul who originally signed with UGA and then decided to go pro instead was another top seed to fall in first round. He was ranked around 200 in April of last year and now is about 400. Maybe the message to the guys who didnt go to college or have been out a few years is not to play Futures in the US just a few weeks after the NCAAs because the college players will be on a hot streak...They should have played the one in Turkey instead. Lots of guys get their first ATP points in Turkey, Egypt, etc

I see this a little differently. I think there is a theory, or at least some coaches of pro players pitch this to young prospects, that college will not develop them the way going to "their" academy will. So, young prospects get intrigued with this as well as the money and support. They can do nothing but practice and play tennis then try to go pro. For those that can't pay up front they sign away their future earnings, its a business. For the theory, I don't personally subscribe to this, but do understand that college tennis has many restrictions such as abbreviated scoring, dual match format, limits on how much you can practice and in many cases even facilities (I could break down each). Its why so many top players skip college (especially on the women's side) and see no value in the experience. Especially if they can train at an academy at a high level and play as much as they want.

Some players try their hand on the futures circuit, and when they don't do great decide to try college which is where you get a lot of these foreign guys who play 2 years because they can and the already have points so they have lost some eligibility. They are like single A ball players basically. So they dominate in college, but then get back out and can't get out of the first rounds. A couple make it, but its few and far between. Our Jr. programs are just not good enough right now to keep up with those in Europe, Australia, and S. America. The players there are exposed to greater competition at a younger age and learn how to work through tournaments and points better then the American Jr's. Coaches more free to coach and local academies flourish in places like Latvia, Croatia, Spain, and France, and don't have the restrictions of a cookie cutter approach. Most of these guys are friends and develop their now home bases where they can train, and it may be centered around a University but not with the team.

I have not heard much of guys hanging around a school and just practicing with the team, although this does happen in the form of volunteer coaching. However, I am sure some guys hang around on their own and play against team members outside of the regular hours. Probably depends not the coach and situation. I don't know what the NCAA rules on this are, but I am sure it is restricted as well.

 

[SECFAN]

I don't know about all schools, but I know of some that have players come back and visit throughout the year, and they do hit with players from time to time. It's probably like Nacho said, on their own time, because I am not sure what the NCAA allows.

 

[jaggy]

I am sure I read that Murray hits with U Miami players sometimes

 

[mtommer]

I don't know about all schools, but I know of some that have players come back and visit throughout the year, and they do hit with players from time to time. It's probably like Nacho said, on their own time, because I am not sure what the NCAA allows.

I hit with college players a bit when I was in Kzoo. We had a Div. 1 and K College there. Whether I was in school or not was never even a consideration or was I ever asked about it. I'm sure that graduating players could hit with anyone as long as the coach was okay with it. That's how it was for me. *shrug*

 

[gplracer]

I was looking at Winston Salem Futures results. Ryan Shane, NCAA #1 2015 lost to freshman Brandon Holt in 1st round. Dominic Koepfer, a former ITA #1 from 2016 (Tulane), also lost in 1st round. He had won matches in European challengers recently and is ranked around #350 but loses in a US Future R32. That is how hard US futures are-maybe due to the fact the US does not get its pro rata share compared to Europe so those who do make it into the main draw are very talented (there are guys with sub UTR 13s with ATP points who played elsewhere-most guys in US Future main draws are UTR 14+). These results also show how much impact just a year of college training can make, and on the other hand, how being away from college just a year or two can bring down a player's game. Maybe I am reading too much into the results of a few matches, but it seems players should stay in college for their 4 years, as once they leave, they will have a hard time replicating the level of play and practice unless they are good enough to get WCs into high level tourneys, e.g Norrie getting into Aegon. His decision does make sense since he has shown he can beat a top 100 ATP player.

Are players allowed once they graduate to go back and just hit with team when they are in town, or do they have to go off campus if they want to hit? Just curious... I guess some of them could return as volunteer coaches and then return to the tour when they are ready-that has happened before.

Tommy Paul who originally signed with UGA and then decided to go pro instead was another top seed to fall in first round. He was ranked around 200 in April of last year and now is about 400. Maybe the message to the guys who didnt go to college or have been out a few years is not to play Futures in the US just a few weeks after the NCAAs because the college players will be on a hot streak...They should have played the one in Turkey instead. Lots of guys get their first ATP points in Turkey, Egypt, etc

This may be the case since we have a system of "you are on your own" once players graduate from college. They have no coach pushing them to train and work on their game. The USTA does work with players but it is only the elite very few. The players with untapped potential are not noticed. In team sports those players might have a chance but in tennis it the chance is very small.