Is it true that "playing up" a level will get you bumped?

[njsigman]

Question. I have a friend who is a 3.5 "playing up" at 4.0 this season. He is playing 4.0 exclusively. Played 3 matches so far. One was a blowout (1-6,0-6) and the other 2 he won some games. (5-7, 1-6 and 3-6, 6-2, 5-1) Lost all 3 though. He will probably play 3 or 4 more matches. Will he get bumped up to 4.0 at year end?

 

[esgee48]

Depends. If he is playing 4.0C or 4.0B players and winning sets off of them, then he may get bumped. Overall games won/loss will count then. If he wins a match against them, he will get bumped. If he's playing 3.5's playing up, it doesn't count.

 

[jmverdugo]

From what I have heard he would have to actually win some matches to get bumped.

 

[onehandbh]

I think it's possible if you win some games.
In truth, the levels aren't really as clearly defined and distinct as people
make it out to be. There are some 3.5's that me win against 4.0's and
4.5's that might beat a 5.0, but most 4.0's will beat a 3.5 and most 5.0's will
beat a 4.5. And a 5.0 will probably never lose to a 3.5.

From what I've seen it's definitely much easier to get bumped up by playing up
than staying at the same level (unless you dominate).

Overall it's a little strange to me why people care so much about NTRP.
Look at the div 1 college rankings, do they give them NTRP ratings?
(e.g. #1 player is 6.5 , #30 is 6.23,...)

If you want to play up, and play against better players, even if it means
you'll usually lose, then go ahead. If you want to wait until you can
comfortably win at your current level before moving up, you can do that
as well. The USTA system is just a computer formula they came up with to
make sure people of relatively similar abilities play against each other and
prevent people that are MUCH better from dominating lower level players.
On TW it's perceived by many as badge of honor like a purple heart and
5.0 seems to be one of the holy grails. Some TW members might even
prefer having a 5.0 rating to dating a supermodel.

 

[innoVAShaun]

It happened to a buddy of mine that was a 3.5 and playing up at 4.0. He lost every match he played at 4.0 (he was the young singles horse) but the online system still bumped him up.

When the new ratings did come out and he was bumped up to 4.0, he was able to immediately appeal.

Also, I've seen 3.0s destroyed at the 3.5 level but still bumped up.

 

[JLyon]

it is hard to tell, I played up one year and got bumped, but one of my teammates at 5.0 last year played up from 4.5 and won a match but did not get bumped so it varies on the player and their initial rating and who they have played at each level.

 

[michael_1265]

Question. I have a friend who is a 3.5 "playing up" at 4.0 this season. He is playing 4.0 exclusively. Played 3 matches so far. One was a blowout (1-6,0-6) and the other 2 he won some games. (5-7, 1-6 and 3-6, 6-2, 5-1) Lost all 3 though. He will probably play 3 or 4 more matches. Will he get bumped up to 4.0 at year end?

In my limited experience, there is a strong correlation between playing up and playing competitive sets (whether you win or not) and getting bumped.

My experience is certainly not conclusive, but I was 5-3 last year at 3.0 (3-0 in singles and 2-3 in doubles) and I was 0-3 playing up (0-2 doubles and 0-1 singles). In my singles match, I played competitive sets against a player who was bumped to 4.0.

 

[NLBwell]

If you play up, you are more likely to get bumped.

 

[ian2]

If you play up, you are more likely to get bumped.

Far more likely. And you don't have to win playing up to be bumped up... that's not how the algorithm works. It all depends on whom you play and the scores, but generally speaking:
- if a 3.5 plays a 4.0 and loses 6-3 6-2, the DNTRP of the 3.5 player will rise and DNTRP of the 4.0 player will decrease;
- as a 3.5C you have a better chance of being bumped up if you play up and loose all your matches (but somewhat competitively) vs playing at level and winning 80% of your matches (unless the majority of the wins were blow-outs).

Keep in mind that year-end rating dynamics vary year-to-year (and, I suspect, region-to-region) as USTA continues to "re-balance" the numbers of players at a given level. Here are the stats for my area (Denver metro) for 2010 end-of-year:

2.5 total - 35 / moved up - 21 (60.0%)
3.0 total - 354 / moved up - 47 (13.3%; 3 players moved from 3.0 to 4.0)
3.5 total - 1085 / moved up - 56 (5.2%; 1 player moved from 3.5 to 4.5)
4.0 total - 1167 / moved up - 75 (6.4%)
4.5 total - 456 / moved up - 13 (2.9%; 1 player moved from 4.5 to 5.5)
5.0 total - 116 / moved up - 6 (5.2%)

 

[Limibeans]

It's very possible and very likely.

Like the other posters have mentioned, it depends what the score is, who you played, who they are, ect.

Example: If you're a top tier 4.0 player, you appeal down to 3.5 (for whatever, assuming its granted) expect to get 3 strikes and a dynamic DQ if you play up to 4.0 by winning 3 times as a 3.5.

Example: You're a low rated 3.5 player, you've always been a 3.5, you've always lost. If you decide to play at 4.0 and somehow win, you'll probably not be bumped for that one win/match at year end.

Example: You're a 3.5 player and you play both 3.5 and 4.0. Expect to be a 4.0 at year end if you have wins at both ratings even if you "barely" win at both levels.

It depends on so many things that its impossible to tell you for sure. Just assume playing up means you'll be ranking up. Dont try to manage your rating this way. Play adult 3.5 and win. Play 7.0 mixed to manage your rating if thats what you're trying to do.

 

[aniretake]

Overall it's a little strange to me why people care so much about NTRP.

I'll tell you why I care. I was a 3.5, got bumped down to 3.0. According to the new rules, I cannot play 4.0 Low if I am a 3.0, so I lost an opportunity to play more. And I had played 4.0 Low before and won.
But you are right, this computer system is just that and sometimes screws us up.

 

[goober]

Overall it's a little strange to me why people care so much about NTRP.
Look at the div 1 college rankings, do they give them NTRP ratings?
(e.g. #1 player is 6.5 , #30 is 6.23,...)

.

It only matters if you play USTA league tennis imo. Your NTRP level will largely determine who you are allowed to play with. If all your tennis buds are a level below you, you won't be able to play with them. If you want to put together a team going to nationals its critical to have players that are out of level but rated at your level on your team. Outside of this context it doesn't mean much. Once you get outside the scope of USTA play such as college tennis it doesn't mean anything. Colleges have their own ranking system, so do high schools.

 

[Z-Man]

Far more likely. And you don't have to win playing up to be bumped up... that's not how the algorithm works. It all depends on whom you play and the scores, but generally speaking:
- if a 3.5 plays a 4.0 and loses 6-3 6-2, the DNTRP of the 3.5 player will rise and DNTRP of the 4.0 player will decrease;
- as a 3.5C you have a better chance of being bumped up if you play up and loose all your matches (but somewhat competitively) vs playing at level and winning 80% of your matches (unless the majority of the wins were blow-outs).

Keep in mind that year-end rating dynamics vary year-to-year (and, I suspect, region-to-region) as USTA continues to "re-balance" the numbers of players at a given level. Here are the stats for my area (Denver metro) for 2010 end-of-year:

2.5 total - 35 / moved up - 21 (60.0%)
3.0 total - 354 / moved up - 47 (13.3%; 3 players moved from 3.0 to 4.0)
3.5 total - 1085 / moved up - 56 (5.2%; 1 player moved from 3.5 to 4.5)
4.0 total - 1167 / moved up - 75 (6.4%)
4.5 total - 456 / moved up - 13 (2.9%; 1 player moved from 4.5 to 5.5)
5.0 total - 116 / moved up - 6 (5.2%)

I agree with this. I've heard the computer somehow averages your rating with the people you're playing against and uses the score to determine a change to your rating. So playing better players pulls your rating up even if you lose. That's how it was explained to my friend who was DQ'd. We played every match together, so we had identical records, but he also played 1 match up a level, which he lost. He got DQ'd and I didn't.