MasterBruceTennis
New User
So many tennis players were taught to ‘keep your eyes on the ball at all times’, please share your experiences.
Is 'keep your eyes on the ball at all times' a good instructional slogan?
- Thread starter MasterBruceTennis
- Start date
I hate this advice and I try my best not to follow it. If I am playing singles and I hit a ball to my opponent I KNOW where the ball is going, no need to watch it in the air. I'd rather watch the spot where my opponent will be making contact (hip high on the forehand side as an example) so I can react to it the moment that it is struck. Whenever I feel like I am hitting crappy volleys or am moving slow, I can generally track it back to watching the ball while it is in the air instead of looking ahead.
Djokovicfan4life
Legend
I think you're misinterpreting the meaning of this phrase. Most people are talking about watching the ball until contact, or technically until about 4 or 5 feet prior to contact as Bungalo Bill has pointed out many times.
Steady Eddy
Legend
Vic Braeden said that an opthamologist told him that no one's eyes can adjust fast enough to watch the ball come off your strings. So while we can't do this literally, it's still something we should strive for. It's very easy to peak at where the ball will go before you hit it, and this can ruin your stroke. This advice to keep your eye on the ball is common in: golf, baseball, and kicking field goals. So I think that there must be something to it.
Djokovicfan4life
Legend
Good for you, but that's not what this thread is about. :wink:
xpaulinabearx
Semi-Pro
I keep my eyes on the ball.
If i don't, i miss hit alot.
If i don't, i miss hit alot.
No one can look at the ball at all times. There are other things for us to look.
I do not consider it is a good slogan. I agree with what you said in another thread—it is a misleading statement.
MasterBruceTennis
New User
I believe that is what we all try to do. How to do that?
And, do you agree with "keep eyes on the ball at all times"?
You need not track the ball all the way, but ideally, you need to be focused on the contact point when you make contact. It doesn't mean you are going to see the ball as anything other than a blur, though. The way to do this, I believe, is to generally watch the space between you and your opponent, and shift your eyes to the contact point as soon as you can. Whenever I concentrate on doing this, I feel like I am getting into the "zone", and end up hitting some good shots.
Now if I could only exchange my legs for 25 year old legs...
Now if I could only exchange my legs for 25 year old legs...
basil J
Hall of Fame
I had a hitting session videotaped the other night and was enlightened to the fact that 90% of my errors were due to me looking up or peeking at where my shot was going to go before I hit the ball. We spent an hour the next session doing a drill where he Fed me a ball and I had to hit the stroke and keep my head down and yell out if it was in or out just by the feel of the ball coming off of my racquet. By the end of the hour I was doing it pretty easily. I tried it today in a practice set and was not as diligent, but noticed that some of my errors were absolutley due to looking up prior to the hit. Watching the bounce on both sides of the court and following the ball all the way to your strings also seems to slow down the game for me, so it is something I will work on all summer and see if it helps my game. I suggest trying this and see if it impacts your game!
What is all times? When ball is coming towards you? Yes. Before that, people say focus on the racquet face of the opponent, because it cannot lie. And even before that, I think pros will get clues from the footwork and other motions. Against a guy approaching the net, and in doubles, awareness of the opponent is important. You will see pros go down the line, crosscourt, at the feet, or lob the ball depending on what the net rusher is doing. You can see the split second where they adjust their stroke for that. If they were looking only at the ball, that would not be possible. I think a good sequence for focusing is:
After hitting the ball, see the general movement and setup of the opponent.
Then, focus on the angle of the racquet face.
Then track the incoming ball.
Then, somehow monitor in peripheral vision if the opponent is charging the net.
Keep your eye on the ball as you impact, whatever extent you can.
For the return of serve,
Try to focus on the swing of the server, which gives a clue about flat, topspin, direction etc (unless you are facing Sampras when it may not help)
As the ball leaves the racquet, know which way to lean and move the racquet, because you are not going to be able to track and react to the ball by just looking at it.
Project the direction of the ball and setup your racquet for impact accordingly.
Excessively focusing only the ball will only give you a headache.
MasterBruceTennis
New User
SURESHS ..
Nice sequence you have!
Nice sequence you have!
10s talk
Semi-Pro
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Research studies have shown that elite athletes do not keep their eyes on the ball at all times. For both incoming balls and outgoing balls, elite tennis players often employ a "jump-ahead" saccade when tracking a moving ball. Dr. Joan Vickers has been studying the gaze tendencies of elite athletes as well lower-skilled athletes. Where, when and how long an elite athlete looks at the ball, the playing field, and opponents vary significantly compared to less-skilled players. Take a look at Dr Vickers' book, "Perception, Cognition, and Decision Training: The Quiet Eye in Action", for some insight on this subject.
In a study published in 2002, Williams, Ward, Knowles, and Smeeton studied the gaze & anticipation of tennis players as their opponent was about to hit a ball. Lower-skilled players focused primarily on the ball and the racket of the opponent to guide their own response. The elite tennis players tended to fixate quite a bit more on the opponent's head-shoulder and trunk-hip regions to make their responses -- their anticipation skills weree clearly superior due to this difference in gaze tendencies.
Yes, it does appear that Fed keeps his head & eyes still longer than other players. However, it is important to note that he is not following the incoming & outgoing ball with his eyes as he is doing this. At some point before the ball reaches him, Roger stops watching the ball.
You will see his head turn significantly shortly before the ball gets to his contact zone. In watching very high-speed videos of him, it can be seen that, as his head turns to the expected contact, his eyes also execute a jump-ahead saccade -- his eyes have moved ahead of the ball and essentially are "lying in wait" for the ball to make contact with his strings.
Before contact, during contact, and well after contact, Fed keeps his head & his eyes quiet -- fixated on the contact zone. He does not look up to follow the outgoing ball until well after the ball has left his strings -- often he does not look up until late in his follow-thru.
In a study published in 2002, Williams, Ward, Knowles, and Smeeton studied the gaze & anticipation of tennis players as their opponent was about to hit a ball. Lower-skilled players focused primarily on the ball and the racket of the opponent to guide their own response. The elite tennis players tended to fixate quite a bit more on the opponent's head-shoulder and trunk-hip regions to make their responses -- their anticipation skills weree clearly superior due to this difference in gaze tendencies.
Yes, it does appear that Fed keeps his head & eyes still longer than other players. However, it is important to note that he is not following the incoming & outgoing ball with his eyes as he is doing this. At some point before the ball reaches him, Roger stops watching the ball.
You will see his head turn significantly shortly before the ball gets to his contact zone. In watching very high-speed videos of him, it can be seen that, as his head turns to the expected contact, his eyes also execute a jump-ahead saccade -- his eyes have moved ahead of the ball and essentially are "lying in wait" for the ball to make contact with his strings.
Before contact, during contact, and well after contact, Fed keeps his head & his eyes quiet -- fixated on the contact zone. He does not look up to follow the outgoing ball until well after the ball has left his strings -- often he does not look up until late in his follow-thru.
Hmmm, this might interest you systemic anomoly:
http://www.pbs.org/saf/1206/video/watchonline.htm
select 'quiet eye'
Master Flow
New User
Yes you should keep your eye on the ball because if you "peek" like people are describing about. then you essentially turn your shoulders out of the shot and throw off the trajectory of your racket swing. its like on overheads how you keep your head up even after you hit so you don't lower your shoulders.
It is fine and dandy to say professionals and world class athletes have various problems related to viewing the ball, but it does not change the general truth that most people make mistakes by taking their eyes off the ball too early and assuming that it will continue along a predicted path.
Thus, for most players, the problem relates to not watching the ball when it is coming to them.
I don't know- maybe some have problems trying too hard to watch to ball moving away from them and therefore losing balance, but I have never seen someone who's game suffers from watching the ball too much.
Thus, for most players, the problem relates to not watching the ball when it is coming to them.
I don't know- maybe some have problems trying too hard to watch to ball moving away from them and therefore losing balance, but I have never seen someone who's game suffers from watching the ball too much.
Steady Eddy
Legend
At my club we tested this once by playing blindfolded. Most players games were described as being impaired while using the blindfolds. For what it's worth, my game was described as being, "about the same".
![shwetty[tennis]balls](/data/avatars/m/23/23325.jpg?1435130997){kind=avatar}
shwetty[tennis]balls
Rookie
It's simple, if you take your eyes off the ball before contact, especially at net, you risk mishitting it. I think it's a rule that can't get enough emphasis. If you think you do well enough without it, you probably haven't played anyone advanced. What people don't take into account is spin, pace, bounce, wind, etc. All these factors can literally change the trajectory of the ball up until contact. Besides, isn't keeping your eye on the ball the whole point in tennis? I'd say one of the biggest reasons that pros are pros is because their ability to maintain focus on keeping their eyes on the ball.
Last edited:
You keep your eye on the ball as long as possible in order to give your brain as much information to process as to where the ball is going. That is why the professional players are so good. Some of them have gotten to the point where they don't even need to look at the ball (For example, Agassi on the return of serve focuses on guessing rather than trying to track the ball).
MasterBruceTennis
New User
Here is the Zen of tennis.
That is good! Zen of tennis.
No question about it. Tennis tranis mind and body.
That is good! Zen of tennis.
No question about it. Tennis tranis mind and body.
C
chico9166
Guest
Don't know about this zen business, but i do know a picture is not worth a thousand practices.
Bagumbawalla
Talk Tennis Guru
In general terms, yes, you should watch the ball at al times-- but with differing leveles of intensity and with different parts of your eyes and your brain.
As our first axiom, you might say- if you dont watch the ball at all, you will play badly, therefore you must watch the ball to some degree.
Ok, then, to what degree? Obviously, it is impossible to watch a ball (with perfect clarity) right onto the racket. I guess the point is-- should you give up trying? Effort and concentration are important parts of the game. A certain intensity of focus and attention to the ball is better than a haphazard awarness that the ball is out there somewhere.
So concentration and awareness is important. But should you have to concentrate on focusing or just concentrate on the ball?
The person who mention zen, I think, was on the right track. There is a certain kind of effortless concentration where your senses are focused on the ball with an easy awareness that takes in the ball and an also peripheral motion, the movement of the opponent, the angles of the court...
Also, we often see more detail when the ball is slightly out of our center of focus- so, yes, keeping the ball in the center of your vision until the last instant may not be the best thing.
In addition to waching the ball coming toward you, yes, you should have a strong awarness of the ball as it travels to the opposite court so you can adjust as your opponent moves and relationships and angles change. This, I think, does not require the same intensity as when the ball is traveling to you, but since things happen so quickly in tennis, you do not want your attention to lapse, either- it's just a different kind/degree of attention.
In addition to watching the ball, I think you shuld try to empty your mind of aything not related to the ball, getting to the ball, striking the ball, and planning your strategy/placement.
Thinking about what your girlfriend said or what happened at work or the bad call your opponent made all serve to divide the focus of the brain when you need it the most.
As our first axiom, you might say- if you dont watch the ball at all, you will play badly, therefore you must watch the ball to some degree.
Ok, then, to what degree? Obviously, it is impossible to watch a ball (with perfect clarity) right onto the racket. I guess the point is-- should you give up trying? Effort and concentration are important parts of the game. A certain intensity of focus and attention to the ball is better than a haphazard awarness that the ball is out there somewhere.
So concentration and awareness is important. But should you have to concentrate on focusing or just concentrate on the ball?
The person who mention zen, I think, was on the right track. There is a certain kind of effortless concentration where your senses are focused on the ball with an easy awareness that takes in the ball and an also peripheral motion, the movement of the opponent, the angles of the court...
Also, we often see more detail when the ball is slightly out of our center of focus- so, yes, keeping the ball in the center of your vision until the last instant may not be the best thing.
In addition to waching the ball coming toward you, yes, you should have a strong awarness of the ball as it travels to the opposite court so you can adjust as your opponent moves and relationships and angles change. This, I think, does not require the same intensity as when the ball is traveling to you, but since things happen so quickly in tennis, you do not want your attention to lapse, either- it's just a different kind/degree of attention.
In addition to watching the ball, I think you shuld try to empty your mind of aything not related to the ball, getting to the ball, striking the ball, and planning your strategy/placement.
Thinking about what your girlfriend said or what happened at work or the bad call your opponent made all serve to divide the focus of the brain when you need it the most.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Thanks BeHappy. I'd actually seen this before I found out about Dr Vickers' book. However, I had not seen the other videos listed on that page -- looks like they'd be very interesting.
I really wish that people in this thread would take a look at that Quiet Eye video (and take a books.google sneak peak at Vickers' book) before insisting that we must all look at the ball all the time.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
It is the contactzone, it is not the ball, that we should focus on at contact, just before contact and immediately after contact. Not only is the head kept still during this period, the eyes should also be quiet during this time on both groundstrokes and volleys.
For most balls, our smooth pursuit system cannot possibly track the ball all the way into the string (or as it leaves the strings either). Attempting to watch the ball all the way, yields no useful information and actually may be counter-productive. I suspect that trying to do so might possibly be over-taxing to our eyes and may do more harm than good in a long match. If our eyes are moving during this time, we will probably see nothing at all. However, if the eyes jump ahead of the ball -- to the contact zone -- players often glimpse of a yellow blur just before contact.
I've instructed many players to stop watching the ball shortly before it reaches them and focus instead on the contact area . I tell them to keep the head and the eyes very still before, during and after contact. It helps if the eyes/head is kept still until the back shoulder (almost) touches the chin (except for one-handed BHs).
Players who learn to focus on the contact area rather than the ball, end up doing an excellent job of watching the ball (before it becomes impossible to see clearly). In order to find the contact point with the eyes as well as with the racket, demands that the player track the ball well enough to do so.
This technique of focusing on the contact zone rather than the ball is not just a trick for elite tennis players. It is used by linesman, baseball batters, cricket batsman, and golfers. Linesman are trained to stop watching the ball and focus on the outside edge of the line (their contact zone) instead -- letting the ball come into view rather than tracking the ball. Studies have shown that, if the head or eyes are moving in an attempt to track the ball, the ability to make an accurate call is severely compromised.
I've taught this technique to kids as young as 7 and 8 yrs old -- those who master it end up watching the ball much better than they did before. Dr Vickers and others have trained numerous amateur athletes (high school, collegiate, Olympic hopefuls) the quiet eye and decision training techniques with measured success -- they are trained to employ the visual techniques used by elite athletes.
I urge you all to try your own research on how the human visual tracking systems work and what research has uncovered about the way that elite athletes use their visual systems rather than stubbornly holding on to old beliefs.
For most balls, our smooth pursuit system cannot possibly track the ball all the way into the string (or as it leaves the strings either). Attempting to watch the ball all the way, yields no useful information and actually may be counter-productive. I suspect that trying to do so might possibly be over-taxing to our eyes and may do more harm than good in a long match. If our eyes are moving during this time, we will probably see nothing at all. However, if the eyes jump ahead of the ball -- to the contact zone -- players often glimpse of a yellow blur just before contact.
I've instructed many players to stop watching the ball shortly before it reaches them and focus instead on the contact area . I tell them to keep the head and the eyes very still before, during and after contact. It helps if the eyes/head is kept still until the back shoulder (almost) touches the chin (except for one-handed BHs).
Players who learn to focus on the contact area rather than the ball, end up doing an excellent job of watching the ball (before it becomes impossible to see clearly). In order to find the contact point with the eyes as well as with the racket, demands that the player track the ball well enough to do so.
This technique of focusing on the contact zone rather than the ball is not just a trick for elite tennis players. It is used by linesman, baseball batters, cricket batsman, and golfers. Linesman are trained to stop watching the ball and focus on the outside edge of the line (their contact zone) instead -- letting the ball come into view rather than tracking the ball. Studies have shown that, if the head or eyes are moving in an attempt to track the ball, the ability to make an accurate call is severely compromised.
I've taught this technique to kids as young as 7 and 8 yrs old -- those who master it end up watching the ball much better than they did before. Dr Vickers and others have trained numerous amateur athletes (high school, collegiate, Olympic hopefuls) the quiet eye and decision training techniques with measured success -- they are trained to employ the visual techniques used by elite athletes.
I urge you all to try your own research on how the human visual tracking systems work and what research has uncovered about the way that elite athletes use their visual systems rather than stubbornly holding on to old beliefs.
Hmmm, this might interest you systemic anomoly:
http://www.pbs.org/saf/1206/video/watchonline.htm
select 'quiet eye'
I can buy that. When I think back on how I make service line calls when at the net in doubles, I end up focusing on the general path of the ball rather than completely on the ball, as that comes and goes too quickly. It has a small chance of error, but it is probably the best the human visual system can do.
5263
G.O.A.T.
5263
G.O.A.T.
I have taught this for years as the "disappearing ball" approach, where you focus on seeing the ball disappear as it is struck at the CP.
Thanks for the link and the added info!
MasterBruceTennis
New User
I guess we all have different experiences. My experience is that pictorial images can enhance productivity of practice.
What do you see when you practice? Pictures or nothing?
Il Mostro
Banned
I buy into the whole Zen approach. I also agree with focusing on the hitting zone. When I play well I have sort of *relaxed* focus that closely correlates to the video. I'm not overly conscious of mechanics, things seem to slow down, the ball looks bigger and my game just flows. Now, getting into this zone consistently is the challenge...
C
chico9166
Guest
Yea nothing against zen, I just try to separate church and state of my game.
symon_say
Rookie
For my experience, i was playing with a guy how i have never beat, we play just a set, in the first one i was not looking at ball in general terms, i lose 6-0 with a lot of mistakes, but in the second one i told myself that i was gonna look at the ball the most i can.
In serves i watch the ball at the toss that way i can how his racquet move at the impact and know if it was flat or topspin that way i return most of the services, when we where on a rally i focus on the player when the ball was going to him, that way i can get more info about what he is gonna do, and when the ball is coming i see the ball with everything else that was hapening in court, but when the ball goes over the net, i take everything out and just focus on the ball and the impact i want to give it, cross, parallel, slices, drop or anything i can.
Guess what i win 7-6 in tie break. I'm completly sure that if you watch and concentrate on ball at the moment of impact you'll be a lot more consistent and accurate.
But not only watching the ball at all time, you have to be watch the complete game most of the time.
PS: this guy an no other with the same level have beat me again, since i start doing this
In serves i watch the ball at the toss that way i can how his racquet move at the impact and know if it was flat or topspin that way i return most of the services, when we where on a rally i focus on the player when the ball was going to him, that way i can get more info about what he is gonna do, and when the ball is coming i see the ball with everything else that was hapening in court, but when the ball goes over the net, i take everything out and just focus on the ball and the impact i want to give it, cross, parallel, slices, drop or anything i can.
Guess what i win 7-6 in tie break. I'm completly sure that if you watch and concentrate on ball at the moment of impact you'll be a lot more consistent and accurate.
But not only watching the ball at all time, you have to be watch the complete game most of the time.
PS: this guy an no other with the same level have beat me again, since i start doing this
Il Mostro
Banned
I worship at the altar of results. ;-)
C
chico9166
Guest
hehe, whatever works my brother.
certifiedjatt
Banned
this, along with "bend your knees", have got to be two of the most annoying advice ever. where else am i going to look when i play tennis??? i may occasionally look over to see where the opponent it, in which case i will probably mishit the ball and lose the point. "even" top players do this; it happens. and, "bend your knees"...i have a pretty decent backhand, but, the guy i hit with always says "you aren't bending your knees enough." it's soooo aggravating! i bend my knees as i need to! why bend them just for the sake of bending them. if you watch federer, he'll sometimes hit his backhand almost standing straight up because the ball happens to be in his hitting zone.
DarthCow
Rookie
Have a look at this article. It shows Federer, Nadal, Clement and Hewitt and how they keep their eyes in the contact zone after they have made contact.
EDIT: Pfft broken link again.
This is a snippet from an article from Tennnis Mind Game:
A considerable amount of hitting sequences photos (several hundred for each player) reveals that elite players not only seem to follow the ball longer than other players but also possess a characteristic posture of the upper body: at impact, their head and eyes are turned in the direction of the hitting zone.
Additionally, what contrasts with previous studies is that Federer and Nadal not only keep their eye on the ball up to the moment of impact, but after impact their head remains still and in the direction of the contact zone.
This 'fixation' of the contact zone is the trademark of elite players.
More precisely, among top players, only few high level performers follow a typical fixation of the contact zone. It is significantly illustrated in the modern game by the amazing consistency of Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal.
So, is gaze control a decisive characteristic of great players? At this time, observations of elite players only suggest that gaze control, especially fixation could be partly what gives them higher accuracy especially through better centering.
More broadly, Federer and Nadal demonstrate that it is possible and even beneficial to play tennis with the eyes not always focused on the ball. Therefore, watching the ball throughout its entire flight is not the visual strategy used by elite players
EDIT: Pfft broken link again.
This is a snippet from an article from Tennnis Mind Game:
A considerable amount of hitting sequences photos (several hundred for each player) reveals that elite players not only seem to follow the ball longer than other players but also possess a characteristic posture of the upper body: at impact, their head and eyes are turned in the direction of the hitting zone.
Additionally, what contrasts with previous studies is that Federer and Nadal not only keep their eye on the ball up to the moment of impact, but after impact their head remains still and in the direction of the contact zone.
This 'fixation' of the contact zone is the trademark of elite players.
More precisely, among top players, only few high level performers follow a typical fixation of the contact zone. It is significantly illustrated in the modern game by the amazing consistency of Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal.
So, is gaze control a decisive characteristic of great players? At this time, observations of elite players only suggest that gaze control, especially fixation could be partly what gives them higher accuracy especially through better centering.
More broadly, Federer and Nadal demonstrate that it is possible and even beneficial to play tennis with the eyes not always focused on the ball. Therefore, watching the ball throughout its entire flight is not the visual strategy used by elite players
Last edited:
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Excellent article, DarthCow. The only thing that I'd take issue with, is the phrase above. I've not looked closely at Nadal, but slow-mo closeup videos of Federer (& others) show that his head & eyes actually get to the contact zone slightly before the ball does. It appears that he is tracking the ball until it is a meter (or less) from his contact. His head turns an extra measure so that his eyes are trained on the back of the contact zone (many other pros seem to fixate at the front of the contact zone). Take a gander at the slow-mo vids below.
Federer backhand
As the ball is approaching, Roger appears to be tracking the ball. At the about the 0:09 mark, his head and eyes have turned a bit before the ball has reached him so that he is fixated at the back of the expected contact. We see him make contact at the 0:11 mark and the head & eyes are fixated at the same place. If you keep watching, it is very obvious that he continues to fixate at this location for quite a while. It is not until after the 0:18 mark that we see his head starting to move to look up.
Federer forehand
Notice how Federer's chin goes from the front shoulder to the back shoulder -- this is mostly torso rotation (a lesser amount of head rotation). In this video, we see Roger apparently tracking the ball for quite a while. At about the 0:12 mark it appears that his head & eyes have turned (jumped ahead) to fixate at the back of the contact zone a bit before the ball has arrived. At about 0:13.5 (a few mouse clicks after the 0:13 mark), we see the ball come into the frame. At about 0:14.5 (a couple of clicks before 0:15), we see him finally making contact.
At about 0:18, his right shoulder coming through causes his head to move a bit. However, his eyes still appear to be trained on the same spot until 0:20.
Last edited:
Similar threads
