You need to do better at words.
Is Marat Safin the most overrated player of all time?
- Thread starter jamesblakefan#1
- Start date
You need to do better at words.
Pheasant
Legend
Safin could play as well as anybody ever when he was on. The 2000 USO semi was the most ridiculous match I’ve ever seen by a 20 year old. Sure, Sampras didn’t move like he used to. But he still had that great serve and Marat returned it better than anybody that I’ve ever seen. I’ve never ever seen Sampras stunned in an interview like he was after the 2000 USO final. He said he tried everything with his serves and they kept getting returned.
Not many players can say that they beat both Sampras and Federer deep in a slam tourney(semis or later).
Thaf said, where are people rating Marat? If they are saying that his career is up there with Becker’s, then that’s overrating him. But if they are saying his ability to peak for tourneys is ATG, then that is not overrating him. The guy had all the requisite skills. His return game, when on, was as good as anybody’s. He could serve 140 mph(he was hitting 137 in the 2005 AO semi). He was a solid net player. And he could crush the ball from both wing. The problem is that this guy was insanely inconsistent. So yeah, obviously Hewitt had a much better career. Hewitt would have to be ranked above Safin. But Safin’s top gear was clearly better.
Not many players can say that they beat both Sampras and Federer deep in a slam tourney(semis or later).
Thaf said, where are people rating Marat? If they are saying that his career is up there with Becker’s, then that’s overrating him. But if they are saying his ability to peak for tourneys is ATG, then that is not overrating him. The guy had all the requisite skills. His return game, when on, was as good as anybody’s. He could serve 140 mph(he was hitting 137 in the 2005 AO semi). He was a solid net player. And he could crush the ball from both wing. The problem is that this guy was insanely inconsistent. So yeah, obviously Hewitt had a much better career. Hewitt would have to be ranked above Safin. But Safin’s top gear was clearly better.
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nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Safin could peak for tournaments as an ATG sounds extremely vague.
We can agree when he WON the big tournaments that he was good, but if you use the exact same logic and say because he was great when he won which every single player who ever lived was, then he was just as great in losses as well then I think it is crossing the line.
BauerAlmeida
Hall of Fame
Safin's A game was one of the best ever. Ríos's was not. People think being aesthetic and hitting some nice drop shots make you super "talented" and with huge potential but that is not the case. Ríos underachieved a lot and could have done better but not to the extent some make it out to be.
Safin struggled a lot with injuries, not just with being a headcase. But even if he was fully healthy and had an impeccable work ethic he was never going to be like the Big 3 or even Murray in terms of consistency. He was pretty consistent in 2000 since spring until the end of the year and late 2004/early 2005. So he could have a decent level of consistency and could have achieved a lot more but never be a GOAT candidate.
I think that even being a headcase if he had not gotten that injury in 2005 he would have won a few more HC slams. But it's a pity he suffered those injuries and was weak mentally in the 2001-2003 period because he could have won several slams. In 2002 he played well but was a mental mug at the time and 2001 and 2003 he had a lot of injuries, especially the latter where his ranking dropped outside the top 80.
Safin struggled a lot with injuries, not just with being a headcase. But even if he was fully healthy and had an impeccable work ethic he was never going to be like the Big 3 or even Murray in terms of consistency. He was pretty consistent in 2000 since spring until the end of the year and late 2004/early 2005. So he could have a decent level of consistency and could have achieved a lot more but never be a GOAT candidate.
I think that even being a headcase if he had not gotten that injury in 2005 he would have won a few more HC slams. But it's a pity he suffered those injuries and was weak mentally in the 2001-2003 period because he could have won several slams. In 2002 he played well but was a mental mug at the time and 2001 and 2003 he had a lot of injuries, especially the latter where his ranking dropped outside the top 80.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
Definitely. Nevertheless overrated.
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
Overall? Absolutely, same with Hewitt, and Rodrick.
Rodrick said it himself, the players now are so much more well rounded and better overall.
However, Safin at his best and Nalbandian at his best were GOAT level, but they were not interested in maintaining that level of play.
Rodrick said it himself, the players now are so much more well rounded and better overall.
However, Safin at his best and Nalbandian at his best were GOAT level, but they were not interested in maintaining that level of play.
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Federer wouldn't have won 11 Major titles in the period 2004-2007 if these two guys had a much better work ethic and weren't unlucky with injuries.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
How can an underachiever be overrated ?
If somebody has the ability and feats in patches to do great things then he is not overrated. It is Murray who I would say is overrated.
Safin, Becker both are underachiever to an extent, especially Safin. I wouldn't call them overrated because it is not like these maximised their ability are rated high
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
Yes!!
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
Most overrated players are underachievers . Anyway, Safin didn't have elite movement for modern baseline tennis. His shots were also very inconsistent, so was his serve.
accidental
Hall of Fame
Kyrgios is the most over rated player ever sorry to tell you mate
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Safin had elite movement for his era, he moved better than anyone of his height. If He was born 17-18 years later then he would have been winning plenty of Slams. Serve would be amplified more with current racquets, he was a tall guy, saying his serve was inconsistent is absurd. His era was different, his racquet was also different and yet the power he generated was insane.
Safin is not at all overrated...He should'vr been on 5-6 Slams.
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
Federer wouldn't have won 11 Major titles in the period 2004-2007 if these two guys had a much better work ethic and weren't unlucky with injuries.
When you talk about injuries for that period, my mind goes to Tommy Haas and all of his lost potential. We were definitely robbed of a lot of really amazing matches.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
Underachiever and overrated is not mutually exclusive. He underachieved in the sense that he could have won 2-3 more slams had he been fully dedicated and not such a massive headcase. However, some fanboys here on this board say he had the talent of the big three and could have won 10+ or even 20 slams. This is were he becomes overrated. On top, he came across as "cool" and his unprofessional life style adds up to his overrating, same with Ronaldinho in football or Shawn Kemp in basketball.
Fed was too good by the time he peaked. Safin could’ve grabbed 06 AO but 07 Fed would win. Nalbandian was very good but fed turned around the h2h post 03 other than that 07 indoor streak he had.Federer wouldn't have won 11 Major titles in the period 2004-2007 if these two guys had a much better work ethic and weren't unlucky with injuries.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
I have never seen anyone say that he could have won 10+ or something as absurd as 20 slams.
Safin was not great on natural surfaces, so on HCs alone the max you can do is double digits if you are as consistent as Federer/Djokovic, as far as as Safin goes 5-6 in total and on HCs is what most people believe and it is not overrated at all. 10+ would be overrated because now are imagining him as being super consistent year in and year out, not getting injured, highly motivated, working to get better and better every year..... too many assumptions.... but I dont see anyone talk of 20 slams for him or 15 slams for him, he is not overrated.
Better_Call_Raul
Hall of Fame
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
Yeah because players of his height were sht back then. Safin's movement was and speed was no way near they hype he has generated. At best he was 5-6 slam player but they way postes hype him is just too annoying.
D
Deleted member 758560
Guest
murray is a better player than safinator
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Murray is a Roddick and Hewitt level player ..... Safin is a tier higher on ability
21st Century players based on peak level
Tier 1 : Federer, Nadal, Djokovic
Tier 2 : Safin, Del Potro
Tier 3 : Roddick, Hewitt, Murray, Sinner, Alcaraz, Wawrinka
Tier 2 did not do justice to their talent, thats why they are in the ballpark of Tier 3.
D
Deleted member 758560
Guest
nice attempt razer i like it
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
Putting Sinner and Carlos with Hewitt?lol
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
Only a Djokovic fan would say, Safin had more firepower unlike Murray who would resort to pushing whenever he had a chance in slam finals.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Why not? Hewitt has won 2 slams and earned his spot there. The comparison 20-22 years apart is never on absolute terms, so unless SInner and Carlos win more slams Hewitt would at least merit a comparison with them, it is only fair.
D
Deleted member 758560
Guest
not only lol and it has nothing to do with fan or not in my case, murray is better on grass and clay thats enuff i guess
Razer
G.O.A.T.
If Safin was born in 1996-1997 then he would have sent Djokovic & Nadal into retirement in 2020-2021.
What Med/Zed could not do, he would have done it......
There is nothing overrated about Safin and he is definitely better than Murray @alexio. Murray has had big 3 level "consistency" with peak level of Roddick/Hewitt types, thats why Murray was toothless every time except when he faced Djokovic on some occasions.
What Med/Zed could not do, he would have done it......
There is nothing overrated about Safin and he is definitely better than Murray @alexio. Murray has had big 3 level "consistency" with peak level of Roddick/Hewitt types, thats why Murray was toothless every time except when he faced Djokovic on some occasions.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
If Safin and Del Potro were fit and motivated to win consistently for a decade then Big 3 would not have been able to cross 20+ slams 
Murray on the other hand like a weak beta male everytime he used to lose to these fellows....this is because he lacked any weapons to trouble the best but he was above the rest, so he gave an illusion that he is in a different league but he just wasn't.
Murray on the other hand like a weak beta male everytime he used to lose to these fellows....this is because he lacked any weapons to trouble the best but he was above the rest, so he gave an illusion that he is in a different league but he just wasn't.
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
Murray is more accomplished but Safin could go toe to toe with the very best something Murray couldn't do. Son, you didn't watch Safin in his prime.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
Murray was consistent in beating lower players but didn't have any peak level to write home about. Completely useless against great players and a complete bore on top of that.If Safin and Del Potro were fit and motivated to win consistently for a decade then Big 3 would not have been able to cross 20+ slams
Murray on the other hand like a weak beta male everytime he used to lose to these fellows....this is because he lacked any weapons to trouble the best but he was above the rest, so he gave an illusion that he is in a different league but he just wasn't.
D
Deleted member 758560
Guest
son you dont read the room obviously
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
son you dont read the room obviously
Son Learn to not call your elders son or I'll have to put you on ignore
that's disrespectful.
NAS
Hall of Fame
You go over board sometimes, when Safin was born it was not problem, being headcase and injuryprone was problem.If Safin and Del Potro were fit and motivated to win consistently for a decade then Big 3 would not have been able to cross 20+ slams
Murray on the other hand like a weak beta male everytime he used to lose to these fellows....
Hc slam from AO 1998 to us open 2003 was more or less quite open but Safin was not serious that was problem.
Him loosing final in 2002 or loosing in strifht set in AO 2001 to Hrbaty of all people was his own doing, he was unfit in AO 2003 and lost first round in us open 2004 to Enqvist, now do you really think the person that lost to Enqvist Or Hrbaty is sending Rafa or Novak packing home?
He lost to Sampras in stright in us open semi 2001 and see how Hewitt handled him in final
He even lost to Guga( inujured coming back) in second round of us open 2002 his favorite surface in stright set.
There is no gurantee that these issues will be resolved if he was born in 1996-1997.
If he was serious then he should have won AO 2001,02 , Us open 2001( 50 perecnt chance as hewitt)
One of the AO 2003,or Us open 2003( assuming he is not injured and is in top form.
For all the talk of weak draws give Djokovic AO 2001 to AO 2003 draw and he will do triplet even in 30+ age and what Safin did?
Us open 2003 was first time when draw started to become good and consistent( Top players playing good)
D
Deleted member 758560
Guest
such a tragedy it will be for meSon Learn to not call your elders son or I'll have to put you on ignore
Razer
G.O.A.T.
If Safin in born in 96/97 then he would be much fitter. Have you noticed that players on an average today are fitter than their predecessors born 16-20 years ago ? Today's top players have many benefits which the players in olden times did not have.
Motivational problems would be there, I agree, but it is not like he cannot send Djokodal into retirement. Remember Nadal is very much in bad shape after 2020, also Novak does not match well to Safin, thats why Baby Novak is 0-2 vs Safin in Slams, believe it or not if Safin is born a decade younger to Djokodal then they will be sent into retirement for sure. This is not Casper Ruud or Zverevs or Medvedev like betas who have no answer to Djokodal, this is Safin we are talking about, he will not be short of motivation against legends. Do you think he was demotivated vs Sampas or Agassi or Federer like he was against Hrbaty or Johansson ? Nope.... vs the best he would be motivated and he would prevail.
D
Deleted member 758560
Guest
overall.. guys, sir andy is better, thru all surfaces and no need to think only about hard, that should be clear if we wanna be really neutral and max unbiased
NAS
Hall of Fame
Being fitter of today players will not help him, he was not serious and that is why he was unfit.
His lifestyle created that problem, now with social media and more girls and more late night party and boozing, he will be even more reckless
Have seen Tsits embarrassing behavior on tiktok Or Instagram whatever media he is using.
If Safin Was partying then late night before matches what make you think he will not do that today
Same with Nalbandian, being better fitness of today players in general will not help him as he was gainning weight, he will not leave that big burger, having better fitness standard will help somebody like Hewitt
As in today era people are playing less matches so Hewitt will not get burned out that easily.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
These hypotheticals are always done with the faith that players will be more motivated and at their best in other eras. Otherwise we can make anyone look reckless. What if Nadal was born in a country like USA in a household which is rich and having a luxurious lifestyle? What if he was born in Dubai or Iraq ? He would not even be into tennis.
What if Safin was born in the house of Toni Nadal ? Then Marat would be disciplined? No ?
See we can never assume that if he is born later then he would be more distracted, these hypotheticals are always about the ability of the player if properly harnessed, thats what the discussion is about.... otherwise there is no way to prove any hypothetical, anything is possible for any tennis player.
RS
Bionic Poster
This isn't really relevant though tbf lol
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
RS
Bionic Poster
Don't you believe Murray would destroy him in absolute terms though?
RS
Bionic Poster
You got me there.
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
such a tragedy it will be for me
Son you were once on my ignore and yet you kept quoting me lol.
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D
Deleted member 758560
Guest
son
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
D
Deleted member 758560
Guest
son
D
Deleted member 805385
Guest
Safin had the highest peak ever. Both on the tennis court and in bed.
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