Is Massu to blame for Thiems lower standard on clay....

It was widely reported how Massu and Thiem worked together to reduce his backswing on his forehand to enable him to compete on hard courts more effectively....do you think the focus on adapting his game to hard has actually reduced the threat he presents on clay now?

I understand he hasn't been playing much before anyone brings that point up but his forehand doesn't seem as damaging as it used to be whereas his backhand seems to still be there.

Also (I'd have to look up the exact year) at Roland Garros one year he was leading the average first serve speed list (Gunther quoted this in an article) so he can obviously deliver heat on his 1st but he seems to be playing it more safely on that aswell.

Discuss
 

daggerman

Hall of Fame
He probably won't say it, but I still think he's managing a pretty serious injury that probably won't heal unless he takes an extended break. He's looked like he's suffering on court in every match I've seen him play this year, and I refuse to believe it's simply because he's not in shape.
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
I think it’s definitely physical, whatever’s been going on. He doesn’t look physically there on the court at times.
 
D

Deleted member 771911

Guest
I don't think it works like that with coaches. Massu can make a suggestion, but Thiem is free to use his judgement and direct the course of action. If it doesn't click, they get a new coach who they are more in tune with. So, it's on Thiem really.
 
He still looks rusty and needs more match play. Results in Madrid last week were just a blip and not a good indicator where he is with his current game. Good that he played a true dirt baller like Sonegro today. But he'll probably end with another quarterfinal finish at Roland Garros this year.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
It was widely reported how Massu and Thiem worked together to reduce his backswing on his forehand to enable him to compete on hard courts more effectively....do you think the focus on adapting his game to hard has actually reduced the threat he presents on clay now?

I understand he hasn't been playing much before anyone brings that point up but his forehand doesn't seem as damaging as it used to be whereas his backhand seems to still be there.

Also (I'd have to look up the exact year) at Roland Garros one year he was leading the average first serve speed list (Gunther quoted this in an article) so he can obviously deliver heat on his 1st but he seems to be playing it more safely on that aswell.

Discuss
Interesting as i think the FH looks ok its the BH i have an issue with. He is slicing way too much which while useful in that it denies opponent pace to work with means he has to do a lot of running as opponent has time to pick spots. Takes its toll over a tournament.
His BHDTL is way too inconsistent. Looks glorioua when on but i have noted players on big points do offer up the DTLBH on big points and he often hits it long as goes for too much.
Also he is no longer the biggest hitter. Sinner hits harder as do a few younger ones like FAA so players no longer see his groundies as huge weapons like when he burst on the scene. Becker many years ago had same problem in 90s serve wide with the likes of Ivanisevic Krajicek Stich and Rosset and Sampras around. His serve was no longer uniquely devastatingly powerful so players were used tonthat big a ball.
Same is now happening to Thiem. He desperately needs more variety
 
Well yes I think everyone would agree that the mental part is an issue for him and his drop since he won the USO but that shouldn't effect his power to the level it has.

In terms of an injury, it was very clear that he was carrying one in AO but it took him ages to address it clearly that it was an issue with his foot however if it's an injury in his foot he wouldn't be able to get as many balls back as he is right now (I'm referring to the level of injury that significantly impacts a pros level, every player is always carrying injuries due to the nature of the tour).

Personally I honestly feel Massu has reduced his threat on clay to the point where I don't think anyone in top 100 is worried about facing him on clay and to the contrary probably fancy that they can beat him
 

DSH

G.O.A.T.
The good boy achieved the dream of his whole life (or almost), besides that he is a multimillionaire at a young age and seems to enjoy the tennis life off the courts: He is satisfied, it seems that he is.
:)
 
Thiem is to blame for Thiem's lower standard on clay.
I'm talking about the fact that his coach recommended to change his forehand technique to make him more effective on hard courts.

Obviously thiem is the one hitting the balls and playing the matches but I doubt he turned around to Massu and asked him to change it for him he would of come from Massu
 
The good boy achieved the dream of his whole life (or almost), besides that he is a multimillionaire at a young age and seems to enjoy the tennis life off the courts: He is satisfied, it seems that he is.
:)
I agree. I think he is truly satisfied with his career now. He's the second best Austrian after Muster, but in someways has made more accomplishments in the slams. He definitely isn't cut from the same cloth as the Big Three where they want to keep winning and adding to their slam count. But hopefully Thiem has one more in him to pull a French Open title before his time is over.
 
The good boy achieved the dream of his whole life (or almost), besides that he is a multimillionaire at a young age and seems to enjoy the tennis life off the courts: He is satisfied, it seems that he is.
:)
Yes we can see that but it's not really what the thread is about. It's a question on whether the biomechanically alterations to his forehand and his new outlook on serving are areas he has personally focused upon or if it's coming from his coach
 
I agree. I think he is truly satisfied with his career now. He's the second best Austrian after Muster, but in someways has made more accomplishments in the slams. He definitely isn't cut from the same cloth as the Big Three where they want to keep winning and adding to their slam count. But hopefully Thiem has one more in him to pull a French Open title before his time is over.
I used to enjoy watching him play on clay but compared to before he's a shell of himself I think alot of guys will fancy themselves against him at the FO.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think he's going to do much at french open again with the current team he has
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I don't think Massu is to blame. Wasn't Thiem with him in 2019 when he beat Nadal in Barcelona and reached the FO final beating Djokovic, while also playing his most competitive match with Nadal in the final?

He's just in a slump. Will probably come back from it, but it will take time. Don't think Thiem is done just yet, save for a major injury.
 
Yes he was with him then but I don't think he had made the forehand changes fully by then I think he still had his "clay" forehand and was still going for alot more on his serve.
Like I said I'd love to see him back in the finals again unleashing rocket's but less UE's!!
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Yes he was with him then but I don't think he had made the forehand changes fully by then I think he still had his "clay" forehand and was still going for alot more on his serve.
Like I said I'd love to see him back in the finals again unleashing rocket's but less UE's!!
Personally, I think he made the right decision. He never had a chance against Nadal at the French so why not try to win one of the other majors who are more open? Eventually, his efforts paid off as he was gifted a dream path to a GS title, an opening which would have never happened at the French because of Rafa.
 
Personally, I think he made the right decision. He never had a chance against Nadal at the French so why not try to win one of the other majors who are more open? Eventually, his efforts paid off as he was gifted a dream path to a GS title, an opening which would have never happened at the French because of Rafa.
I fully agree with all this and hence why I was asking if people figured Massu had lead to a lower clay level but higher hardcourt level. You seem to be the first poster who has understood the thread
 
Might be a good strategy for him to practice before the French with some true heavy spin dirt ballers (Sonego, Cuevas) rather than the usual practice partners (Rublev, Wawrinka, Schwartzman). Time to get that clay feel back!
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I fully agree with all this and hence why I was asking if people figured Massu had lead to a lower clay level but higher hardcourt level. You seem to be the first poster who has understood the thread
To give a shorter answer, no, I don't think so. Will have to wait for Thiem to exit his slump to know for sure because right now he isn't good anywhere, not just on clay LOL.
 
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