Is Murray the greatest British sportsman ?

Otacon

Hall of Fame
A lot of debate in British media over whether Andy Murray is Britain's greatest sportsman... If not him, who do you think deserves that title?
 

TJfederer16

Hall of Fame
He has my vote. To do what he did In the era of three all time greats and the pressure he was under by the public in Britain was immense.
 

Badabing888

Hall of Fame
One of the Greatest along with

Fred Perry
Bobby Moore and Bobby Charlton
George Best/ Kenny Daglish
Daly Thompson
Steve Ovett/Seb Coe
Mo Farah
Nick Faldo

I would say Lewis Hamilton but not a fan of his and his Mercedes does 75% of the winning.
 

K-H

Hall of Fame
Ronnie O Sullivan would argue otherwise.
The GOAT snooker player.
The most naturally gifted snooker player ever seen.
And unlike Murray, he was the best at his sport.
Holds most of the best records in his sport as well.
What you reckon @Poisoned Slice
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
Lewis Hamilton is easily greater. He's arguably the best of his era in F1.

Lennox Lewis is also greater.


As good as Murray is, it wouldn't be saying much if he was Britain's greatest sportsman. That's a low standard when it comes to being the most legendary sportsman a supposedly great nation has ever produced, when even in his own era, let alone across history, he was no better than fourth.

There's plenty around Murray's league. Ronnie O'Sullivan has been far greater in his sport but his sport is smaller. Same goes for the fittest athlete of all time, Phil Taylor. Then there's the host of great athletes Britain has produced who deserve a mention, among them the likes of Daley Thompson and Mo Farah. I know there are many more who can be mentioned but that'll do.
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
Should be one of them formula 1 guys. Andy is right up there me thinks
Right so where does Murray rank among Scottish sportsmen? From F1 he's bested by both Jim Clark and Jackie Stewart for starters.

The main thing Murray has going for him is he's present and in the present people often have lolgasmic perspective. That and the sympathy in the wake of retirement news which will further twist the minds of those trying to evaluate such a thing.
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
Ronnie O Sullivan would argue otherwise.
The GOAT snooker player.
The most naturally gifted snooker player ever seen.
And unlike Murray, he was the best at his sport.
Holds most of the best records in his sport as well.
What you reckon @Poisoned Slice
PS is apparently taking a break till at least March, but maybe later.
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
Tbh, if snooker isn’t considered a sport, I don’t think darts should be either.

Sure we can say that. Either way, when I watch Ronnie and I watch Andy, I know who is the genius and who isn't. I also know that the fourth wheel of a single era won't be considered the greatest British sportsman, especially some years down the road after the blood is circulated to the right places of the body.

Another name worth mentioning is Ian Botham. Let's throw in a couple of other comparable shouts: Seb Coe and Jonny Wilkinson.
 
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kevaninho

Hall of Fame
Lewis Hamilton is easily greater. He's arguably the best of his era in F1.

Lennox Lewis is also greater.


As good as Murray is, it wouldn't be saying much if he was Britain's greatest sportsman. That's a low standard when it comes to being the most legendary sportsman a supposedly great nation has ever produced, when even in his own era, let alone across history, he was no better than fourth.

There's plenty around Murray's league. Ronnie O'Sullivan has been far greater in his sport but his sport is smaller. Same goes for the fittest athlete of all time, Phil Taylor. Then there's the host of great athletes Britain has produced who deserve a mention, among them the likes of Daley Thompson and Mo Farah. I know there are many more who can be mentioned but that'll do.

Hold on. As much as im a fan of snooker, and darts, they aren't athletic sports. Theres a difference.

Lets look at all your opinions.
Lewis Hamilton - Not really a level playing field, as hes in a car, and usually the fastest car is going to win 9/10 no matter who the driver is.
Ronnie OSullivan - A genius indeed, but hes still not the greatest ever snooker player in Britain, nevermind all sports. Stephen Hendry still eclipses him, with them both having been a professional 27 years. Of course he could pass Hendrys achievements, but after 27 years hes still a few world titles behind him ( which is more important than other tournaments ).
Phil Taylor - Again some would argue that darts and tennis are completely different, with some even saying darts shouldn't be called 'sport'.

Murray might not be the greatest, and im a fan of these other guys you mention, but lets not claim that tennis playing is the same as snooker, darts or F1.
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
Hold on. As much as im a fan of snooker, and darts, they aren't athletic sports. Theres a difference.

Lets look at all your opinions.
Lewis Hamilton - Not really a level playing field, as hes in a car, and usually the fastest car is going to win 9/10 no matter who the driver is.
Ronnie OSullivan - A genius indeed, but hes still not the greatest ever snooker player in Britain, nevermind all sports. Stephen Hendry still eclipses him, with them both having been a professional 27 years. Of course he could pass Hendrys achievements, but after 27 years hes still a few world titles behind him ( which is more important than other tournaments ).
Phil Taylor - Again some would argue that darts and tennis are completely different, with some even saying darts shouldn't be called 'sport'.

Murray might not be the greatest, and im a fan of these other guys you mention, but lets not claim that tennis playing is the same as snooker, darts or F1.

I can claim what dafuq I like, ta. The driver matters though, for Bottas sure as heck wasn't going to beat Vettel assuming he was Merc's best driver, nor would Kimi have beaten Hamilton were he Ferrari's best driver. 2018 was satisfying though given that Hamilton won the title in what most experts consider to have been the 2nd best car.

Ronnie O'Sullivan, Stephen Hendry, Phil Taylor - sure, they're playing games (but then every sport is a game). I still see them as sports but I see where people are coming from. But in the end I call the snooker players sportsmen and not gamesmen. The main charge against their games/sports is that they are not global like tennis, which is a mark in Murray's favour. The biggest knock on Murray is only being the fourth wheel of a single era in his sport - a low grade for best sportsman a supposedly great nation has ever produced.

On O'Sullivan vs Hendry - debateable.

Regarding Lennox Lewis and Lewis Hamilton though, there's no way I could see a fourth wheel as greater than such dominant legends of their own respective sports.
 

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
I can claim what dafuq I like, ta. The driver matters though, for Bottas sure as heck wasn't going to beat Vettel assuming he was Merc's best driver, nor would Kimi have beaten Hamilton were he Ferrari's best driver. 2018 was satisfying though given that Hamilton won the title in what most experts consider to have been the 2nd best car.

Ronnie O'Sullivan, Stephen Hendry, Phil Taylor - sure, they're playing games (but then every sport is a game). I still see them as sports but I see where people are coming from. But in the end I call the snooker players sportsmen and not gamesmen. The main charge against their games/sports is that they are not global like tennis, which is a mark in Murray's favour. The biggest knock on Murray is only being the fourth wheel of a single era in his sport - a low grade for best sportsman a supposedly great nation has ever produced.

On O'Sullivan vs Hendry - debateable.

Regarding Lennox Lewis and Lewis Hamilton though, there's no way I could see a fourth wheel as greater than such dominant legends of their own respective sports.
I guess you only count the world titles that Hamilton won, which btw, has only been 'dominant' the past 5 years, winning 4 of the last 5 titles.
Whats about the 5 seasons before them, where his best championship finish was 4th?
For a guy who was given everything from Ron Dennis, hes not been as dominant as he should've been.

I also don't think Hendry v OSullivan is debateable. They've both played 27 years as professionals, with arguably Hendry facing tougher competition especially in his later years ( remember a young Ronnie, Higgins, Williams, Doherty etc ). Ronnie faces no one of that class these days, yet still lags behind Hendry with probably more tournaments played.
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
I guess you only count the world titles that Hamilton won, which btw, has only been 'dominant' the past 5 years, winning 4 of the last 5 titles.
Whats about the 5 seasons before them, where his best championship finish was 4th?
For a guy who was given everything from Ron Dennis, hes not been as dominant as he should've been.

I mean it's difficult to respond to such a myopic post. He was arguably the driver of the season in both 2010 and 2012 for starters. He was the equal of Alonso in his rookie season, against a 2x WDC, and has won arguably 2 (some would say 3 and it amazes me how many people think Ferrari had the better car in 2017 but whatever) of his titles in arguably 2nd best car. However, he has also let slip titles in possibly the best car (2007 is often debated and then there's 2016 -- 2012, very fast car and very poorly performing team - but Hamilton was brilliant).

Hamilton has been highly regarded for his entire career and has delivered the performance and built the legacy to be held among the greats of his sport. Where would Murray get to, top 15 Open Era?
 

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
I mean it's difficult to respond to such a myopic post. He was arguably the driver of the season in both 2010 and 2012 for starters. He was the equal of Alonso in his rookie season, against a 2x WDC, and has won arguably 2 (some would say 3 and it amazes me how many people think Ferrari had the better car in 2017 but whatever) of his titles in arguably 2nd best car. However, he has also let slip titles in possibly the best car (2007 is often debated and then there's 2016 -- 2012, very fast car and very poorly performing team - but Hamilton was brilliant).

Hamilton has been highly regarded for his entire career and has delivered the performance and built the legacy to be held among the greats of his sport. Where would Murray get to, top 15 Open Era?
His achievements are great, absolutely not disagreeing there, but he should be sitting on more titles IMO given hes always had 1 of the top 2 cars most of his career.
I still find it difficult to claim racing a car is the same as grinding your body everyday in athletics, football, tennis etc.
 
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