Is My Serve 100 MPH+?

bpp

New User
Sorry for the bad angle and bad toss. I taped myself real quickly before one of my matches and only had about 1 min to take it. It looks like I could work on getting my left arm more upright. Perhaps also a little more knee bend and trunk rotation to eek out a couple more MPH. Also, the second serve was the best one I hit. It skidded off the line (or some weird spot on the court) and only bounced about a foot off the ground :confused:.

http://www.vimeo.com/3569879
 

nadalfan!

Professional
Sorry for the bad angle and bad toss. I taped myself real quickly before one of my matches and only had about 1 min to take it. It looks like I could work on getting my left arm more upright. Perhaps also a little more knee bend and trunk rotation to eek out a couple more MPH. Also, the second serve was the best one I hit. It skidded off the line (or some weird spot on the court) and only bounced about a foot off the ground :confused:.

http://www.vimeo.com/3569879

Your feet barely leave the ground. Check on youtube for slo-mo vids of the top pros and see how they get like a foot off the ground. I will post again later because I have to leave now.
 

ferb55

Rookie
Its so hard to say how fast your ball is traveling, but it sounds and looks like you would be approaching 100. However, those serves look like you are serving at about 3/4 speed. No real extension, which means leverage. If you are trying to hit the hardest possible serve...which isn't necessary or advised...you should be about to come out of your shoes! You have the build and the frame (physically) to throw bombs.
 

bpp

New User
Its so hard to say how fast your ball is traveling, but it sounds and looks like you would be approaching 100. However, those serves look like you are serving at about 3/4 speed. No real extension, which means leverage. If you are trying to hit the hardest possible serve...which isn't necessary or advised...you should be about to come out of your shoes! You have the build and the frame (physically) to throw bombs.

I think I would agree. I think the first thing I noticed was how "unexplosive" my serve looked when I first viewed them. I have calculated my MPH using the frames per second method and will post it later. I just wanted to get other people's estimations first as I dont know how accurate that method is.
 

origmarm

Hall of Fame
I'm going to say that you are probably around 70-85 with those. It's hard to tell in a video but that's what it looks like. I'm interested to see what those with more experience on watching serve videos say on this as it would appear that others think you are around the 100 mark.

Cheers, Orig
 

TonyB

Hall of Fame
No way those are 70 MPH. Women on the WTA serve SECOND serves way faster than 70 MPH, and they're not even close to being as fast as the ones in this video.

I wouldn't be surprised if these were 100+.
 
Well, the poor leg drive is a bit misleading, but in terms of how fast the ball reaches the backdrop, it's pretty fast. I top out right around 100, and your serve looks similar, if not faster.

I would say you've crossed the 100 MPH mark.

Matt
 

mucat

Hall of Fame
Wow! That's a very deceptive relax looking serve motion. Ha ha, very nice. Can you serve with this speed the whole match?

This is a good example leg drive only contribute a little bit to serve speed. Majority of the power is from shoulder turn. Swing your arm with your shoulder, your racket is just there for the ride.
 
Wow! That's a very deceptive relax looking serve motion. Ha ha, very nice. Can you serve with this speed the whole match?

This is a good example leg drive only contribute a little bit to serve speed. Majority of the power is from shoulder turn. Swing your arm with your shoulder, your racket is just there for the ride.

Well, the main thing that leg drive could help him with is the contact point. You'd be surprised how much more margin a few inches adds to one's serve.
 

tennisdad65

Hall of Fame
very nice serve.. I don't care about the speed, but I like your relaxed serve. with your current setup, it seems like you should be able to hit both flat and topspin serves quite transparently.

I absolutely love the fact that your hitting elbow is up high like sampras/roddick etc.. most recreational players have their hitting elbow closer to the body and lower down.
 
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blue12

Semi-Pro
I don't know about the speed but it would be pretty deadly if you place it well. I bought a radar and was kind of disappointed. I was getting like 115 mph max with an aeropro cortex and now I'm using an aerogel 200 and can't get more than 105 mph. But hey if you place it well you can hit aces at 90 mph all day long.
 

tennisdad65

Hall of Fame
I don't know about the speed but it would be pretty deadly if you place it well. I bought a radar and was kind of disappointed. I was getting like 115 mph max with an aeropro cortex and now I'm using an aerogel 200 and can't get more than 105 mph. But hey if you place it well you can hit aces at 90 mph all day long.

aerogel 200 - RA = 61, head size = 95, power level = low, Tennis elbow risk = low
aeropro cortex - RA = 67, head size = 100, power level = low-medium, tennis elbow risk = medium

10 mph difference is what I would expect with these specs..
 

mucat

Hall of Fame
Well, the main thing that leg drive could help him with is the contact point. You'd be surprised how much more margin a few inches adds to one's serve.

Yes, higher contact point from more knee bend and leg drive could be an advantage, but it also complicated the serve motion a bit which might lower the serve %. It is like higher contact point increase serve %, but more complicated serve motion lower serve % also. Of course, practice might help.

It also depends on OP's current serve %, if it is already high. leaving the ground might not help much.
 

blue12

Semi-Pro
aerogel 200 - RA = 61, head size = 95, power level = low, Tennis elbow risk = low
aeropro cortex - RA = 67, head size = 100, power level = low-medium, tennis elbow risk = medium

10 mph difference is what I would expect with these specs..

Yeah I volleyed great with the aerogel but couldn't seem to dial in my return of serve, serve, or groundies. I was only getting 90 out the aerogel but I started working my shoulder and have gotten more power.

If anybody wants to clock there serve in the nashville area let me know!
 

RoddickAce

Hall of Fame
I think it's around 100 mph, and I think this is a good example of how fast serves don't neccessarily have to hit very high on the back wall.
 

bpp

New User
I think it's around 100 mph, and I think this is a good example of how fast serves don't neccessarily have to hit very high on the back wall.

I think they hit the backdrop at about mid bounce which is about 4 feet high (the angle might be deceiving). The second ball didnt bounce high at all because it skidded.

They looked about 90, but the serves looked like they were going a little long.

I believe all the serves were in from what I remember...


That serve is probably 85 mph. I am 100% certain it is not 100 mph... sorry :(

I really hope you arent 100% positive because you might be in for a big surprise. Can anyone else calculate my serve speed by the frames method? Using my numbers, some people's guesses are off big time.
 

Mike Cottrill

Hall of Fame
I really hope you arent 100% positive because you might be in for a big surprise. Can anyone else calculate my serve speed by the frames method? Using my numbers, some people's guesses are off big time.

Can you share how you calculated the distance? Can’t even see the other side of the court surface
 

bpp

New User
Can you share how you calculated the distance? Can’t even see the other side of the court surface

I had to just use an estimate of 60 feet. I think all of them landed within about a foot or two of the service line. Two of them were not directly down the middle and those landed a bit shorter from the line then the second serve.
 

jmjmkim

Semi-Pro
You look like you can do this all day. The serve looks effective. I was noticing how the ball stays real low . . . as for the speed, I agree with the majority of this thread, that it is deceptive. Your relaxed motion deceives the viewer into thinking that it is slower that what it is. Just by judging the time it takes from the "pop" sound of the racket to it hitting the ground on the other side, I want to be on the side that says "Yes".

Have a good game.
 

Mike Cottrill

Hall of Fame
I had to just use an estimate of 60 feet. I think all of them landed within about a foot or two of the service line. Two of them were not directly down the middle and those landed a bit shorter from the line then the second serve.
Distance has a huge impact on the results. A few feet can blow your error out of the park. You need accurate distance measurements.

See the write up I did here: http://www.donthireddy.us/tennis/RoddickExample.html
Using 180fps and a distance of 58.84', the result is 139.04mph. If you assume 60' the readings goes up to 142mph, but the distance is not 60' The discrepancy is from errors in the assumptions. Error from Roddick may have been inside the court more than two feet, measuring pixels, camera not directly behind court or objects not the same geometric plane. Just a small error in distance can make a significant difference in initial serve speed. Here are speed readings with slightly different distance readings:
  • 58.84’ == 139.04mph
  • 58.50’ == 138.10mph
  • 58.25’ == 137.41mph
  • 58.00’ == 136.73mph
Notice the difference between 58.84’ and 58.50’ is only 4”.


Oh, and the assumptions I made about the frame rate were verified. I verified that camera used at the 07 AO was recording at 90 frames per second and I de-interlaced it to 180 fields per second.
 

bpp

New User
Distance has a huge impact on the results. A few feet can blow your error out of the park. You need accurate distance measurements.

See the write up I did here: http://www.donthireddy.us/tennis/RoddickExample.html
Using 180fps and a distance of 58.84', the result is 139.04mph. If you assume 60' the readings goes up to 142mph, but the distance is not 60' The discrepancy is from errors in the assumptions. Error from Roddick may have been inside the court more than two feet, measuring pixels, camera not directly behind court or objects not the same geometric plane. Just a small error in distance can make a significant difference in initial serve speed. Here are speed readings with slightly different distance readings:
  • 58.84’ == 139.04mph
  • 58.50’ == 138.10mph
  • 58.25’ == 137.41mph
  • 58.00’ == 136.73mph
Notice the difference between 58.84’ and 58.50’ is only 4”.


Oh, and the assumptions I made about the frame rate were verified. I verified that camera used at the 07 AO was recording at 90 frames per second and I de-interlaced it to 180 fields per second.

I understand what you are saying and there are a lot of variables in play that even if I knew how close to the service line I would be a bit off (need the height I hit it, how close to the service line, higher FPS video,etc.)

Even if I use a scenario of 55 feet in the air (which seems like close to worst case), I get a speed of 100 MPH. I am getting a frame count around 13 on all those serves.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Trivial point - keep your balls in your left pocket. Easier to take out, and won't interfere with your action.
 

EikelBeiter

Professional
I really hope you arent 100% positive because you might be in for a big surprise. Can anyone else calculate my serve speed by the frames method? Using my numbers, some people's guesses are off big time.

I am not 100% positive that that serve is 85 mph. I looked at it again, and i'm going to give it 90mph now :) I am a 100% certain that that serve is not 100mph though. But hey, you have a nice relaxed motion, keep it up.
 

boojay

Hall of Fame
I use the SpeedDrak (SpeedTrac; named after the great Drakulie) radar and having the experience of observing others' results, I'd say absolute max 90 mph, but more like 70-80 as someone else had mentioned. There are very few people who can hit 100+ mph at the club level so it's not the norm, but certainly a goal to strive for. A 75 mph serve is still pretty darn fast, and can still be really effective, especially if it's well placed (at the club level, of course.)

edited: keep in mind, the figures I've given are what I think would show up on the radar gun placed about a foot behind the net. I'm not sure how many more mph's you'd have to tack on to take into account that the ball has slowed down by the time it reaches the radar in order to determine the speed after contact.
 
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Jsa2u

Rookie
with a knee bend and a little snap and this serve could be deadly! I would say it is 100 though.

about time somebody posts a critique that is actually accurate. I was expecting a 13-14yr old kid who serves maybe 80-85mph to be on the vid.

good work.:)
 

obnoxious2

Semi-Pro
That's an 80ish mph serve. Not just from your form but from watching and where the ball is hitting relatively against the back wall (assuming it was a flat serve). Also, since you're serving indoor meaning the courts generally move much faster compared to outside you might actually be in the 70s. Cause when I'm outside, my ball height hitting the back wall is about where you are hitting indoors. So say that is hitting about 1-2 ft up the wall. When I'm indoors given the increased court speed the ball should be almost bouncing 2-3times higher.
 

Nanshiki

Hall of Fame
FWIW, a 100 MPH serve is NOT that damn fast. The men only serve about 85-100 on second serves, and the first serves rarely drop below 120 (at the Davis Cup they averaged close to 130). IMO serves look faster on TV than they do in real life (I watched the same match live and then on TV).

I think the general rule of thumb is that if you can hit the fence without bouncing on a flat serve, it's 100+.

So sure, those serves might be 100 or more. But that isn't saying much. And it means nothing if you don't have a complete game.
 

Pushmaster

Hall of Fame
FWIW, a 100 MPH serve is NOT that damn fast. The men only serve about 85-100 on second serves, and the first serves rarely drop below 120 (at the Davis Cup they averaged close to 130). IMO serves look faster on TV than they do in real life (I watched the same match live and then on TV).

I think the general rule of thumb is that if you can hit the fence without bouncing on a flat serve, it's 100+.

So sure, those serves might be 100 or more. But that isn't saying much. And it means nothing if you don't have a complete game.
How can you compare a pros serve to a recreational player? 100 mph serve is damn fast, alot of guys THINK they can hit 100, but probably in reality only 85-90 at best. I doubt if many players below 4.5 could ever hit a 100 mph serve, let alone be able to do it consistantly.
 
FWIW, a 100 MPH serve is NOT that damn fast. The men only serve about 85-100 on second serves, and the first serves rarely drop below 120 (at the Davis Cup they averaged close to 130). IMO serves look faster on TV than they do in real life (I watched the same match live and then on TV).

I think the general rule of thumb is that if you can hit the fence without bouncing on a flat serve, it's 100+.

So sure, those serves might be 100 or more. But that isn't saying much. And it means nothing if you don't have a complete game.

Haha, you're funny. The fence is a horrible way of measuring serve speed. First of all, different heights = different contact points, and higher contact point = higher bounce on the backdrop. Jo11yroger could tell you that some of his 70 MPH warmup serves bounce higher than his flat aces, which are around the 120 mark.

Matt
 

Ballinbob

Hall of Fame
I have no idea how fast that is, but wow you generate alot of power considering you don't use your legs at all. I don't know how people do that lol... Without my knee bend I would have a 50mph serve prob

Good job though. Only advice I got is add a knee bend to that serve
 

boojay

Hall of Fame
Where the hell you been, jay?

Heh, like Djoker said, I've been working on the game.

Sounds like you missed me.

FWIW, a 100 MPH serve is NOT that damn fast. The men only serve about 85-100 on second serves, and the first serves rarely drop below 120 (at the Davis Cup they averaged close to 130). IMO serves look faster on TV than they do in real life (I watched the same match live and then on TV).

I think the general rule of thumb is that if you can hit the fence without bouncing on a flat serve, it's 100+.

So sure, those serves might be 100 or more. But that isn't saying much. And it means nothing if you don't have a complete game.

No offense, Nanshiki, but unless you're a pro player, you've made some pretty groundless statements.

I've never watched a pro match before, but I've witnessed some mind-blowing rallies between retired pro players and nationally-ranked junior players. To the casual observer, tennis player or not, these balls are travelling at a phenomenal pace. Now consider that current pro players, both men and women, hit at least as hard or harder than that (and on a more consistent basis) and their groundstrokes are usually in the 50-70 mph range during rally balls, give or take.

There's no way the ball looks faster on TV than it does in real life. Pros make it look easy and generally people get the sense that it's an easy sport until they actually experience it first hand and discover that the ball is going a LOT faster than what they perceived on TV (I remember even Federer saying he couldn't believe how hard other pros hit the ball when he actually watched a pro match from the stands.)

As for your back fence theory, even I can hit a 60 mph kick serve that hits the back fence. Hell, if done correctly, I bet someone could do an underhand serve that bounces OVER the fence.
 

Nanshiki

Hall of Fame
Haha, you're funny. The fence is a horrible way of measuring serve speed. First of all, different heights = different contact points, and higher contact point = higher bounce on the backdrop. Jo11yroger could tell you that some of his 70 MPH warmup serves bounce higher than his flat aces, which are around the 120 mark.

Matt

Maybe you missed the part where I said it was a ROUGH ESTIMATE, and ONLY applied to flat serves.

I also never said that height = speed, simply that if you're hitting the fence, you're probably close to 100 mph.

FWIW, the 130 MPH serves I saw live hitting the backboard (which was only waist height: it's lower than it looks on TV) about 3 feet high, although with a solid thump.
 
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maverick66

Hall of Fame
FWIW, a 100 MPH serve is NOT that damn fast. The men only serve about 85-100 on second serves, and the first serves rarely drop below 120 (at the Davis Cup they averaged close to 130). IMO serves look faster on TV than they do in real life (I watched the same match live and then on TV).

I think the general rule of thumb is that if you can hit the fence without bouncing on a flat serve, it's 100+.

So sure, those serves might be 100 or more. But that isn't saying much. And it means nothing if you don't have a complete game.

i stood next to andy roddick and could barely see the ball when he served. grosjean and clement did close to the same thing. rusedski was like that as well. so wasnt guga and mirnyi. so i disagree with you that there much slower in person unless you were in the nosebleed section maybe. but up close those serves are flying.
 
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