Is Nadal clay specialist that is specialized to special clay?

Is Nadals resume skewed even on clay?

  • Yes

  • No

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beard

beard

Legend
We all know he is clay goat, don't we? Yes, he is...

But, when we look at his clay resume, he is not that good in Madrid, where clay is faster and ball bounce is lower.
Look at the data:
- RG 13 titles from 16 appearances (81.25% tournaments won)
- MC 11 titles from 17 appearances (64.71% tournaments won)
- Madrid (clay) 4 titles from 12 appearances (33.33% tournaments won)
- Rome 9 titles from 16 appearances (56.25% tournaments won)



Nadal is drastically worst compared to other clay tournaments in Madrid... Even in Canada on hard court he has better result... Novak is only one Madrid title short and even have better percentage (3/8 - 37.5%)



So, my question: Is Nadal clay specialist that is specialized to special clay? :unsure:
It seems so. Apparently even on clay he needs clay that suits his game. Why clay goat isn't that dominate if clay doesn't suites him?
His fans confirm that too: "He doesn't like high altitude", "Madrid is too fast", "It plays as indoor" and many similar...

u9Y2Rnm.jpg
 
Nadal missed out on Madrid in some of his prime and peak years on the surface (2005-2006 being prime years and 2007-2008 being peak years) so the relatively lower title haul has an explanation behind it. However, he does indeed struggle in those particular conditions relative to those of MC, Rome, and RG.
 
Third Serve said:
Nadal missed out on Madrid in some of his prime and peak years on the surface (2005-2006 being prime years and 2007-2008 being peak years) so the relatively lower title haul has an explanation behind it. However, he does indeed struggle in those particular conditions relative to those of MC, Rome, and RG.
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I think you mean Hamburg titles , I may be wrong but I don't think he never missed Madrid open and won 4 titles from 2009 onwards
 
Third Serve said:
Nadal missed out on Madrid in some of his prime and peak years on the surface (2005-2006 being prime years and 2007-2008 being peak years) so the relatively lower title haul has an explanation behind it. However, he does indeed struggle in those particular conditions relative to those of MC, Rome, and RG.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the guy missed out on 4 prime/peak years where it was Hamburg and since 2014 he's basically been a shadow of his former consistency on clay outside the FO. Part of it is also that the conditions in Madrid (and Hamburg before) aren't as conducive to his game.
 
Third Serve said:
Nadal missed out on Madrid in some of his prime and peak years on the surface (2005-2006 being prime years and 2007-2008 being peak years) so the relatively lower title haul has an explanation behind it. However, he does indeed struggle in those particular conditions relative to those of MC, Rome, and RG.
Click to expand...
You have a point, but as you said, skewness is obvious either way...
 
Third Serve said:
Nadal missed out on Madrid in some of his prime and peak years on the surface (2005-2006 being prime years and 2007-2008 being peak years) so the relatively lower title haul has an explanation behind it. However, he does indeed struggle in those particular conditions relative to those of MC, Rome, and RG.
Click to expand...
I think considering the aforementioned issue, it is unfair to delete one of Nadal's titles in Madrid only because it was played on hard. If he won it on hard, a fortiori, he could win it on clay.

Nadal has 5 Madrid titles, not 4.
 
Sport said:
I think considering the aforementioned issue, it is unfair to delete one of Nadal's titles in Madrid only because it was played on hard. If he won it on hard, a fortiori, he could win it on clay.

Nadal has 5 Madrid titles, not 4.
Click to expand...
You are right but not considering topic. We compare Nadals resume on different clay...
 
NatF said:
Yeah, the guy missed out on 4 prime/peak years where it was Hamburg and since 2014 he's basically been a shadow of his former consistency on clay outside the FO. Part of it is also that the conditions in Madrid (and Hamburg before) aren't as conducive to his game.
Click to expand...
You mean since 2018. In 2017 he won 4 out of the 5 clay titles, including Madrid.
 
NAS said:
I think you mean Hamburg titles , I may be wrong but I don't think he never missed Madrid open and won 4 titles from 2009 onwards
Click to expand...
True, same as other clay tournaments... But that topic deserves a new thread...
 
NAS said:
I think op should take titles from 2009 onwards
MC master 7
Madrid - 4
Rome -6
RG 9
Barcelona -8
He did have some problems but from 2009 it is not too much skew
Click to expand...
That is one concept, other is percentages that I used...
 
Sport said:
I think considering the aforementioned issue, it is unfair to delete one of Nadal's titles in Madrid only because it was played on hard. If he won it on hard, a fortiori, he could win it on clay.

Nadal has 5 Madrid titles, not 4.
Click to expand...
Untestable, therefore unprovable, therefore irrelevant.

We already have the previous version of Madrid on clay, the Hamburg Masters. Madrid Indoors was essentially a completely different tournament compared to the current Madrid Masters and it makes no sense to count them the same.

My solution is just to lump Hamburg and Madrid together because the conditions are similar enough. Hamburg is our best look at Madrid clay pre-2009, not Madrid Indoors. Still, Nadal skipped Hamburg twice so it's not even that accurate.
 
We can have the same argument for Djokovic on HC. Put him on RLA, he turns into an unbeatable GOAT on that surface. Put him on Flushing Meadows he gets frustrated enough to knock out linespeople. Whereas Rafa has been pretty much immaculate on clay. The fact is that Madrid clay plays “abnormally” compared to other clay surfaces.
 
Krish0608 said:
We can have the same argument for Djokovic on HC. Put him on RLA, he turns into an unbeatable GOAT on that surface. Put him on Flushing Meadows he gets frustrated enough to knock out linespeople. Whereas Rafa has been pretty much immaculate on clay. The fact is that Madrid clay plays “abnormally” compared to other clay surfaces.
Click to expand...
Djokovic slam count look different unless he wins 4th us open but in master and yec he actually dominated every master and yec apart from Cincy
 
Third Serve said:
Untestable, therefore unprovable, therefore irrelevant.

We already have the previous version of Madrid on clay, the Hamburg Masters. Madrid Indoors was essentially a completely different tournament compared to the current Madrid Masters and it makes no sense to count them the same.

My solution is just to lump Hamburg and Madrid together because the conditions are similar enough. Hamburg is our best look at Madrid clay pre-2009, not Madrid Indoors. Still, Nadal skipped Hamburg twice so it's not even that accurate.
Click to expand...
Hamburg is different compared to Madrid considering topic. Madrid is high altitude which don't suit him. Point is that Nadal is specialized to certain type of clay, even on clay he needs special conditions to be that dominate, ultimate clay beast...
 
NatF said:
No since 2014. One exceptional year doesn't erase the decline in consistency he's had since 2014 - I'm aware he won Madrid in 2014 as well, though he was fortunate that Nishi got injured.
Click to expand...
I respectfully disagree, as I do consider that that "exceptional" year rebunks your previous claim. In 2017 he didn't lose consistency, and so it should be since 2018 onwards.
 
Sport said:
I respectfully disagree, as I do consider that that "exceptional" year rebunks your previous claim. In 2017 he didn't lose consistency, and so it should be since 2018 onwards.
Click to expand...

So the three years preceding 2017 don't count? lol. It's quite clear 2017 was the exception not the rule man.
 
Third Serve said:
Untestable, therefore unprovable, therefore irrelevant.

We already have the previous version of Madrid on clay, the Hamburg Masters. Madrid Indoors was essentially a completely different tournament compared to the current Madrid Masters and it makes no sense to count them the same.

My solution is just to lump Hamburg and Madrid together because the conditions are similar enough. Hamburg is our best look at Madrid clay pre-2009, not Madrid Indoors. Still, Nadal skipped Hamburg twice so it's not even that accurate.
Click to expand...
Conditions couldn't be more different, though...

In Madrid, the game is faster compared to the regular clay due to the altitude, so it favors power players/hard hitters and their serve&fh combo.

Hamburg was extremely slow due to a sea level altitude (higher air density) and the weather - it is colder and the moisture in the air is high as well, so the balls are heavier and the bounce is lower. That's why Nadal's results inevitably suffered.

Both tournaments have really atypical clay conditions.
 
beard said:
We all know he is clay goat, don't we? Yes, he is...

But, when we look at his clay resume, he is not that good in Madrid, where clay is faster and ball bounce is lower.
Look at the data:
- RG 13 titles from 16 appearances (81.25% tournaments won)
- MC 11 titles from 17 appearances (64.71% tournaments won)
- Madrid (clay) 4 titles from 12 appearances (33.33% tournaments won)
- Rome 9 titles from 16 appearances (56.25% tournaments won)



Nadal is drastically worst compared to other clay tournaments in Madrid... Even in Canada on hard court he has better result... Novak is only one Madrid title short and even have better percentage (3/8 - 37.5%)



So, my question: Is Nadal clay specialist that is specialized to special clay? :unsure:
It seems so. Apparently even on clay he needs clay that suits his game. Why clay goat isn't that dominate if clay doesn't suites him?
His fans confirm that too: "He doesn't like high altitude", "Madrid is too fast", "It plays as indoor" and many similar...

u9Y2Rnm.jpg
Click to expand...

Nadal is a Specialist in making Feddy and the Feddyphants cry. And that makes him Mythically Epic
 
He'd have even more Clay titles if Madrid was proper clay conditions.
 
beard said:
We all know he is clay goat, don't we? Yes, he is...

But, when we look at his clay resume, he is not that good in Madrid, where clay is faster and ball bounce is lower.
Look at the data:
- RG 13 titles from 16 appearances (81.25% tournaments won)
- MC 11 titles from 17 appearances (64.71% tournaments won)
- Madrid (clay) 4 titles from 12 appearances (33.33% tournaments won)
- Rome 9 titles from 16 appearances (56.25% tournaments won)



Nadal is drastically worst compared to other clay tournaments in Madrid... Even in Canada on hard court he has better result... Novak is only one Madrid title short and even have better percentage (3/8 - 37.5%)



So, my question: Is Nadal clay specialist that is specialized to special clay? :unsure:
It seems so. Apparently even on clay he needs clay that suits his game. Why clay goat isn't that dominate if clay doesn't suites him?
His fans confirm that too: "He doesn't like high altitude", "Madrid is too fast", "It plays as indoor" and many similar...

u9Y2Rnm.jpg
Click to expand...
No he is a much more complete player than say a truly one trick pony on say greenset and plexi hard court that cannot translate onto Deco turf as an example
 
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