Is Next Gen doomed to face the same fate as Lost Gen?

Sputnik Bulgorov

Professional
If we count Thiem as lost gen, they only won a total of 1 slam combined.

Zverev, Tsitsipas and Medvedev are aged 23-25, and should be at their physical peak, but have only won 1 slam between them. Zverev is on an extended slump and is consistently losing to nobodies. Medvedev is injured, can only play on hard court, and seems to have reached a ceiling. As for Tsitsipas, it looks like Alcaraz is already in his head. 0-3 now and can't even beat the guy on his best surface. They haven't even solved the geriatric Djokodal riddle yet, and now they have to worry about younger players coming in behind them.

Have they peaked, and will they soon be overshadowed by players like Alcaraz, or is their best still to come?
 

robow7

Professional
Next gen will fare much better but they better not wait too long because there are a bunch of youngsters on the rise and I don't think they will be in awe of them nor will it take long before they make their mark.
 

Sputnik Bulgorov

Professional
The Lost Gen had to deal with 3 ATGs at the same time though.

Sure, but with the exception of Thiem, they let next gen bypass them so quickly. Theoretically, they should still be in a position to challenge next gen and take advantage of old Djokodal, but they declined so quickly.
 
It seems like it yeah, Tsitsipas should be in his prime now and losing on his best surface against Carlos who is still at the beginning of his career (well, 5 years difference) is really worrying and threatening for him. He need to figure sh*t out otherwise it will be a Djokovic Berdych type rivalry
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Sure, but with the exception of Thiem, they let next gen bypass them so quickly. Theoretically, they should still be in a position to challenge next gen and take advantage of old Djokodal, but they declined so quickly.

So did Thiem, he was just a bit younger and got his lolslam before the injuries hit him. Nishikori was 27 (2017), Raonic was 26 (also 2017), Thiem was 27 (2021). Had more years in the top 10 prior though. Dimitrov also declined at 26 (2018), his case was mostly mental I believe, some issue but no acute injuries that would ruin him that much. Annoying how the guy got super lucky hoarding that megaweak YEC and then flopped.
 
T

TheNachoMan

Guest
The next gen is a return to normalcy after the brilliancy of the Big Three.
This feels like the first time the older guard are just slowly fizzling out as opposed to being thrown out on their asses by the younger guys. Tennis historians can enlighten me.
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
This feels like the first time the older guard are just slowly fizzling out as opposed to being thrown out on their asses by the younger guys. Tennis historians can enlighten me.

No one able to properly outplay even 35-year-old Djokodal is astonishing indeed. The last time something like that happened was early OE between Laver's Grand Slam and the arrival of Connors and Borg, although that's massively complicated by the mosaic landscape of the tennis tour at the time, with rival circuits separating players for the most part, and even official majors not all being fully competitive. There were effectively six "real slams" in 1970-73 (WB 70-71, USO 70-73; haters of clay, rejoice). Three of them were won by Newcombe, who was probably just about the best player of 1970-73 taken cumulatively overall (something like: Newcombe then Laver then Rosewall, Smith and Nastase then Kodes then Ashe, Okker, Connors etc). He did beat Rosewall on all his winning runs, going 3-1 vs him in slams (lost at 1970 USO, which Rosewall won). Of course, Rosewall was ten years older. Still no comparison to the LulzGen struggling to beat ~10 years older Djokodal once and that at their physical worst, or sometimes not even then, roflmao.

Laver didn't really get beat consistently by anyone until Connors and later Borg (14 and 18 years younger respectively) when he was 35+ himself. He ceded #1 by losing consistency and suffering more off-form losses, in particular failing at the few "real slams". There's a question of when the ceding happened: in 1970, he won 13 recognised events to Rosewall's 6 and Newcombe's 4, finishing as WCT #1 (by some distance) and Grand Prix #4 (in a close race) but somehow failed at both slams losing in 4R (which contributed to him missing the top spot in GP rankings despite winning the most titles), causing quite a few observers to rank either Wimbledon champ Newcombe or USO champ Rosewall, or both, ahead, but it doesn't seem proper to give even the two biggest tournaments such a massive edge that it overshadows everything else given Laver's total superiority otherwise. Slasher the Rankings Master of OER gives Laver continuous #1 until the fall of '71 when he cedes it to Newcombe, who won 6 titles to Laver's 7 (and was 1-3 against him H2H for the season), but one of them was Wimbledon (over Rosewall and Smith, top competition there; Laver went away to Gorman in straights in QF), although Laver won the TCC again.
At any rate, from 1972 on (so aged 33+), Laver mostly confined himself to the WCT circuit and that mostly in the spring half up to the WCT Finals now in May. Finished the 1972 spring circuit as #1, losing the WCT Finals to none other than Rosewall again in a legendary five-setter, so I guess one may say he still wasn't actually toppled H2H until 34. That was the last time; Laver would lose the next editions three to Smith, Ashe/Newcombe, Ashe/Borg - the five-set loss to Borg in 1975 WCT Finals was considered a final passing of the torch moment (Laver was 36 and Borg was 18, huh) - and mostly retire after 1975, playing his last match in '79 aged 40.

Looks like we have Alcaraz to play Connors/Borg to Djokodal's feeble imitation of Laver, considering the age difference (16/17 years younger than Djokovic/Nadal). Only this time we haven't even had Newcombe/Smith/Nastase/Ashe to get some big time wins earlier as well, at most there's mythical peak BO3rev appearing occasionally. Oh well.
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
Who exactly is lost gen. Forgive my ignorance.... haven't heard that term until today
Sorry, with all due respect, you can’t be a user of this privileged tennis forum without knowing that. I suggest you take your duties here more seriously.
What will come next? That you ignore Srsh?
Thanks, and best regards.
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
No one able to properly outplay even 35-year-old Djokodal is astonishing indeed. The last time something like that happened was early OE between Laver's Grand Slam and the arrival of Connors and Borg, although that's massively complicated by the mosaic landscape of the tennis tour at the time, with rival circuits separating players for the most part, and even official majors not all being fully competitive. There were effectively six "real slams" in 1970-73 (WB 70-71, USO 70-73; haters of clay, rejoice). Three of them were won by Newcombe, who was probably just about the best player of 1970-73 taken cumulatively overall (something like: Newcombe then Laver then Rosewall, Smith and Nastase then Kodes then Ashe, Okker, Connors etc). He did beat Rosewall on all his winning runs, going 3-1 vs him in slams (lost at 1970 USO, which Rosewall won). Of course, Rosewall was ten years older. Still no comparison to the LulzGen struggling to beat ~10 years older Djokodal once and that at their physical worst, or sometimes not even then, roflmao.

Laver didn't really get beat consistently by anyone until Connors and later Borg (14 and 18 years younger respectively) when he was 35+ himself. He ceded #1 by losing consistency and suffering more off-form losses, in particular failing at the few "real slams". There's a question of when the ceding happened: in 1970, he won 13 recognised events to Rosewall's 6 and Newcombe's 4, finishing as WCT #1 (by some distance) and Grand Prix #4 (in a close race) but somehow failed at both slams losing in 4R (which contributed to him missing the top spot in GP rankings despite winning the most titles), causing quite a few observers to rank either Wimbledon champ Newcombe or USO champ Rosewall, or both, ahead, but it doesn't seem proper to give even the two biggest tournaments such a massive edge that it overshadows everything else given Laver's total superiority otherwise. Slasher the Rankings Master of OER gives Laver continuous #1 until the fall of '71 when he cedes it to Newcombe, who won 6 titles to Laver's 7 (and was 1-3 against him H2H for the season), but one of them was Wimbledon (over Rosewall and Smith, top competition there; Laver went away to Gorman in straights in QF), although Laver won the TCC again.
At any rate, from 1972 on (so aged 33+), Laver mostly confined himself to the WCT circuit and that mostly in the spring half up to the WCT Finals now in May. Finished the 1972 spring circuit as #1, losing the WCT Finals to none other than Rosewall again in a legendary five-setter, so I guess one may say he still wasn't actually toppled H2H until 34. That was the last time; Laver would lose the next editions three to Smith, Ashe/Newcombe, Ashe/Borg - the five-set loss to Borg in 1975 WCT Finals was considered a final passing of the torch moment (Laver was 36 and Borg was 18, huh) - and mostly retire after 1975, playing his last match in '79 aged 40.

Looks like we have Alcaraz to play Connors/Borg to Djokodal's feeble imitation of Laver, considering the age difference (16/17 years younger than Djokovic/Nadal). Only this time we haven't even had Newcombe/Smith/Nastase/Ashe to get some big time wins earlier as well, at most there's mythical peak BO3rev appearing occasionally. Oh well.
Oh, well.
And thanks.
 
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