Is Novak as good on fast courts?

[Deleted member 716271]

The general consensus seems to be that Novak is better on slow courts (slow HC) specifically and his AO successes would seem to bear this out. His unique combination of speed, athleticism, movement (sliding), and ability to hit thru the court would all be reasons why he would be at his best on slow pavement.

But to be honest I don't see a major difference in his level on faster harcourts and his recent fall season performances seem to showcase him as very good on fast courts as well as the 2 Wimbledons.

I think a lot of the perception has to do with some of his failures at the USO relatively (4 AO to 1 USO and could likely be 5-1) and the fact that Murray and even Nadal seem to perform a bit better against him on the faster hardcourts but I think besides speaking to the fact that Murray is objectively better on faster courts than slower ones, there is something else at play here.

I'm thinking attrition, lack of focus, and perhaps an aversion to the US crowd has punctuates some of Novak's losses in the Us Open (and Cincinatti) but really the AO in 2012 he could have easily lost to either Murray or Nadal and he could have easily won the USO 2012...I think he just for whatever reason struggles a bit in North America but I don't think it is just down to the speed of the court. I think Djoko is capable of equivalently great performances at the WTF that he is at the AO.

Moving to clay and grass, he has 2 Wimbledons and zero french opens. Of course, Rafael Nadal is the major reason for this and I do think Djoko is a great clay-courter and also I think clay showcases his athleticism and relentless shotmaking the best. But still I think you can make the case that relative to the field (all that really matters tbh) Novak is about equal on clay and grass. It would be stretching it to argue he is better on clay I think.

So I really think that some of it is just down to luck or attrition or whatever that Novak has floundered a bit at the USO and does so great at the AO. A small part of it maybe that the faster courts suit Fed and as of late especially Murray a little bit more (than the slower courts do.)

But ultimately, I think Novak brings a very consistent level of play on all surfaces and in general is about as good on slow or fast courts.

 

[mike danny]

He isn't bad on fast courts. He is just easier to beat on fast courts than on slow courts.

 

[dominikk1985]

He isn't bad on fast courts. He is just easier to beat on fast courts than on slow courts.

I agree. he is very good on fast courts too and wins most of the time but on slow court it is easier to hit through him for a ballbasher on a GOATing day than it is on slow courts.

I would say he is a little better on slow courts but he is definitely one of the best on fast courts too.

 

[Aretium]

He's still top 5. Djokovic is playing tennis which suites this era. He chooses to play this way because he has to. There really aren't any fast courts aside 2/3 tourneys.

 

[ibbi]

The indoor season is about the quickest period left on tour, isn't it? Considering he strolled through that undefeated last year I'd say he's perfectly good, yeah.

 

[mike danny]

The indoor season is about the quickest period left on tour, isn't it? Considering he strolled through that undefeated last year I'd say he's perfectly good, yeah.

Except Cincy finals. 0-4 and losing all sets played

I think Cincy is actually the fastest on tour today

 

[mike danny]

I agree. he is very good on fast courts too and wins most of the time but on slow court it is easier to hit through him for a ballbasher on a GOATing day than it is on slow courts.

I would say he is a little better on slow courts but he is definitely one of the best on fast courts too.

You mean fast

 

[coloskier]

Djoker will always be better on slow courts because fast courts negate some of his court speed and big hitters will have a better chance to hit through him. Fast courts tend to negate foot speed. Nadal for example. Retrievers have a much tougher time when they don't have as much time to get to the ball.

 

[ultradr]

There's no mystery. There are no true fast court since 2003 or so.

All #1's since then do generally well on all surfaces unlike 70-90s.

 

[ibbi]

Except Cincy finals. 0-4 and losing all sets played

I think Cincy is actually the fastest on tour today

Right, but to have played the final there 4 times suggests he's not good on fast courts?

 

[Midaso240]

He's pretty good on fast yeah,but if Murray and Federer play their best,they should beat him on fast courts usually...

 

[mike danny]

Right, but to have played the final there 4 times suggests he's not good on fast courts?

Yes he is good. But like I said he can be beaten much easier on faster courts than on slower ones.

Federer and Murray's majority of wins have come on faster courts vs Novak. He is more vulnerable vs guys who can play thier best on fast courts.

 

[Chanwan]

The indoor season is about the quickest period left on tour, isn't it? Considering he strolled through that undefeated last year I'd say he's perfectly good, yeah.

Neither Basel nor the WTF are particularly quick. And I believe Paris was slowed down to have the same speed as them last year as well. They are lower bouncing though, which suits Djoko, Fed etc. and doesn't suit Rafa too much.

He isn't bad on fast courts. He is just easier to beat on fast courts than on slow courts.

This.

Overall, Fed and Murray are better fast court players imo. And until the US Open, Murray was up 7-1 or something like that vs. Novak in their matches on 'faster' courts.
But given that
a) Murray is still a bit of a mess and
b) Fed ain't quite what he used to be then
c) Novak is actually the best fast court player on tour right here, right now.

 

[mike danny]

Neither Basel nor the WTF are particularly quick. And I believe Paris was slowed down to have the same speed as them last year as well. They are lower bouncing though, which suits Djoko, Fed etc. and doesn't suit Rafa too much.



This.

Overall, Fed and Murray are better fast court players imo. And until the US Open, Murray was up 7-1 or something like that vs. Novak in their matches on 'faster' courts.
But given that
a) Murray is still a bit of a mess and
b) Fed ain't quite what he used to be then
c) Novak is actually the best fast court player on tour right here, right now.

Agree. But with those 2 not at their best, Nole still couldn't win Cincy and USO this year, which is a shame. It would have boosted his fast court resume a lot. He hasn't won a title in the American HC season since 2012. That's 2 years.

About the bounce at WTF, I think the bounce is bigger now. Last year I watched the Fed-Nadal WTF SF and the bounce seemed higher, which is why Fed lost IMO

 

[timnz]

We have no way of knowing

Fast court tennis hasn't existed on the ATP since the mid to late 2000's. We currently have a range of Slow, Medium Slow (these two make up most of the tour) and Medium - in 1990's terminology.

If you were to compare it with tennis of the 1980's and early 1990's then present grass and indoor would be rated as medium paced in 1990's terms.

Hence, we haven't seen Djokovic on a fast court - so there is no way of knowing how we would do. I suspect he would do fine - but not as well as slow hard court like the Australian Open or Miami.

 

[Noelan]

Acording to this I would say he is, ofc hes slightly better on slower HC.
4 Dubai titles
3 WTF
2 Paris
2 Shangai
4 finals in Cincinnati
1 USO
1 Basel
Another thing that many posters here will immediately jump here and declare all courts/tournament slow.

 

[Zoid]

Djokovic is extremely underrated fast court player. He is equally good on fast HC and grass (yes grass - the most underrated grass player ever - 2 W titles and still considered weak grass players by haters here), like he is on slow HC and clay.

His troubles in Cincy and US Open (especially US Open) are not related to the court speed at all, but other outside factors - i.e.extremely biased against him antagonizing crowd, organizers that make the schedule as hard for him as possible, ridiculously difficult draws especially comparing to Nadal and Federer, and at the end yes - heat and wind which both stopped him couple of times.

Confirmation of all this is easy total domination on even faster courts during the indoors season and great success on many fast courts. However still denied and not acknowledged by haters here.

His troubles in Cincy and US are not related to court speed at all, but other outside factors
1) extremely biased against him antagonising crowd = weak excuse
2) organizers that make the schedule as hard for him as possible = delusional weak excuse
3) ridiculously difficult draws especially comparing to Nadal and Federer = stupid, weak excuse, draws are pulled out of a hat?!?
4) heat and wind = should not bother champions

so basically novak never loses to a better player, he just gets the short end of the stick all the time? poor fella.

 

[Gary Duane]

Neither Basel nor the WTF are particularly quick. And I believe Paris was slowed down to have the same speed as them last year as well. They are lower bouncing though, which suits Djoko, Fed etc. and doesn't suit Rafa too much.

What is your opinion of the speed/bounce on the courts at Shanghai? It's hard to tell on TV, but they do not seem fast. Just medium. But the bounce seems fairly low.

For Fed I think a lower bounce is the biggest key for him to have a chance against Joker. Faster and lower would be best for him. Joker, I think likes slower and has the least problem with a high bounce other than the one Nadal produces, and for now he is gone.

 

[Chanwan]

Agree. But with those 2 not at their best, Nole still couldn't win Cincy and USO this year, which is a shame. It would have boosted his fast court resume a lot. He hasn't won a title in the American HC season since 2012. That's 2 years.

About the bounce at WTF, I think the bounce is bigger now. Last year I watched the Fed-Nadal WTF SF and the bounce seemed higher, which is why Fed lost IMO

Not sure about the WTF, I've been watching it live for the past few years and while there was a bit of chatter about the court being slower last year, I didn't notice the bounce was higher. But I think those things are pretty hard to see unless you're on court playing.
I think he just lost because he was having a bad year and Rafa was having a career year.

On Novak, yeah, I see what you mean. Obviously he was pretty far from his best this time around.
But he wasn't quite at his best last year either. Despite of Rafa playing his best ever on HC, I still think Novak's best beat him both at Cinci and the US. Unfortunately for Novak, he only played at 95-98 % of his capabilities and much less this year.