Is Novak Djokovic the most complete Tennis player in the open era?

D

Dire_Wolf

Banned
When he is in the zone, it seems he is playing on a different planet. A his absolute peak he crashed the Fedal party and beat them 10/11 times including a 6-0 against an absolute peak Nadal. It seems when he is in the zone he combines Federer's offense and Nadal's defence to just annihilate opponents. This year he set a record in the WTF for fewest sets lost in the RR stages. He scythed through the AO Champion 6-3 6-0 and double breadsticked the USO champion. I don't think there is another player as dominant when in full flow (save perhaps Sampras on fast hards but even he didn't have as good a return). He mauled Nadal on clay at Rome this year and manhandled Federer on grass at Wimbledon. Incredible when you think about it.

Of course as far as overall achievements go he still has a lot of catching up to do but in terms of pure peak play, surely he surpasses Nadal by a considerable margin and even Federer?
 
I am a massive Djokovic fan, but with his overheads, I wouldn't say he is the most complete tennis player in the open era.
 
He's not. His netgame while underrated and improving does not qualify him for the most complete player in the open era. The likes of Borg and Federer are more complete than he is IMO.

He's arguably the most complete baseliner of all time - although again the likes of Borg might beg to differ.
 
Let him learn to hit proper slice, overheads, volleys first.

He's just academy product- A Baseline Robot of unlimited stamina and good shot making talent.
 
"Manhandled Federer at Wimbledon"??!did you even watch the match?
As far as I remember he won in five tight sets,to Federer who is over 30.
He has never won against Nadal or Federer if I recall correctly at the French open either.
Fed and Nadal in their prime can handle Djokovic quite well,even though I have to admit they would not beat him everywhere
 
Rusty669 said:
"Manhandled Federer at Wimbledon"??!did you even watch the match?
As far as I remember he won in five tight sets,to Federer who is over 30.
He has never won against Nadal or Federer if I recall correctly at the French open either.
Fed and Nadal in their prime can handle Djokovic quite well,even though I have to admit they would not beat him everywhere
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Djokovic beat peak Nadal 7 times in row, he leads Nadal 12-7 since 2011. Pretty sure Nadal was in his prime when Djokovic beat him.
 
Why would Nadal not be more complete than Djokovic?

Nadal has a two-handed backhand just like Djokovic, y'know, not an attackable one-hander like Federer, so Nadal also has no weaknesses.
 
thomasferrett said:
Why would Nadal not be more complete than Djokovic?

Nadal has a two-handed backhand just like Djokovic, y'know, not an attackable one-hander like Federer, so Nadal also has no weaknesses.
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Nadal's backhand is attackable - he just covers it better with his movement. Instead of shanks it can give up short balls. He's also got a good but not great serve and his court positioning can suck sometimes.

Both Djokovic and Nadal are pretty complete though, both have good touch and excellent ground games including crazy defence. Decent at net or even good at net as well.
 
I would not call nadal a complete Player. compared to Novak his volleys and Overheads are better but his serve and BH is average at best.

Novak is very complete by modern Standards but lacks a lot of variety even more than nadal (volleys, slice, drop shots).

IMO fed is still the most complete Player even though his BH Topspin is not the best (but still very good).
 
dominikk1985 said:
I would not call nadal a complete Player. compared to Novak his volleys and Overheads are better but his serve and BH is average at best.

Novak is very complete by modern Standards but lacks a lot of variety even more than nadal (volleys, slice, drop shots).

IMO fed is still the most complete Player even though his BH Topspin is not the best (but still very good).
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Nadal has a much better serve than Djokovic IMO.
 
Whether he's hitting the ball over the net, :cool:

or hitting it into the net, :confused:

or touching the net, :sad:

or reaching over the net (hellooo Andy Murray!), :shock:

Novak the whack is the complete package.
 
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NatF said:
No way. Djokovic's serve these days is really very good. Nadal's is hard to attack because he's a lefty but Djokovic's better for sure.
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Yeah Djokovic's is better I'd say.

dominikk1985 said:
IMO both are average, not terrible of course but average.

do you think Novaks slice improved under becker? I think it is not as terrible as it was before:).
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Average? It's not all about speed. They're 2 of the best servers on the planet.
 
NatF said:
No way. Djokovic's serve these days is really very good. Nadal's is hard to attack because he's a lefty but Djokovic's better for sure.
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I feel like Nadal's serve generally is used in a different way.. and is much more clutch in tough situations.
 
Cup8489 said:
I feel like Nadal's serve generally is used in a different way.. and is much more clutch in tough situations.
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Djokovic has been clutch this year though - his serve was very good at Wimbledon. He's got a better second serve and his placement and speed on the first serve has been improving the last 2 seasons.

I'll give this to Nadal, he wouldn't DF on a match point ;)
 
Dire_Wolf said:
When he is in the zone, it seems he is playing on a different planet. A his absolute peak he crashed the Fedal party and beat them 10/11 times including a 6-0 against an absolute peak Nadal. It seems when he is in the zone he combines Federer's offense and Nadal's defence to just annihilate opponents. This year he set a record in the WTF for fewest sets lost in the RR stages. He scythed through the AO Champion 6-3 6-0 and double breadsticked the USO champion. I don't think there is another player as dominant when in full flow (save perhaps Sampras on fast hards but even he didn't have as good a return). He mauled Nadal on clay at Rome this year and manhandled Federer on grass at Wimbledon. Incredible when you think about it.



Of course as far as overall achievements go he still has a lot of catching up to do but in terms of pure peak play, surely he surpasses Nadal by a considerable margin and even Federer?
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I think there is some truth to that as I think Djokovic's defence is better than Federer's, when his game is fully on. My coach was a former top junior in the UK until injury prevented greater things. He says much the same thing and from a technical non-biased perspective I always listen to these guys.

It's a shame for him that he wasn't able to find himself a bit earlier in his career. The psychological barrier of overcoming Federer and Nadal was huge and I suspect he has a 2-3 year window to put forth his candidature in the GOAT debate.
 
NatF said:
Djokovic has been clutch this year though - his serve was very good at Wimbledon. He's got a better second serve and his placement and speed on the first serve has been improving the last 2 seasons.

I'll give this to Nadal, he wouldn't DF on a match point ;)
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Nadal's serve is really hard to attack, and he places it very well. Almost always serves at 67% and above, and rarely hits double's. I think it's better than good.
 
Dire_Wolf said:
When he is in the zone, it seems he is playing on a different planet. A his absolute peak he crashed the Fedal party and beat them 10/11 times including a 6-0 against an absolute peak Nadal. It seems when he is in the zone he combines Federer's offense and Nadal's defence to just annihilate opponents. This year he set a record in the WTF for fewest sets lost in the RR stages. He scythed through the AO Champion 6-3 6-0 and double breadsticked the USO champion. I don't think there is another player as dominant when in full flow (save perhaps Sampras on fast hards but even he didn't have as good a return). He mauled Nadal on clay at Rome this year and manhandled Federer on grass at Wimbledon. Incredible when you think about it.

Of course as far as overall achievements go he still has a lot of catching up to do but in terms of pure peak play, surely he surpasses Nadal by a considerable margin and even Federer?
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"Most Complete?" ......in the Open Era? LMAO. :lol:

Roger Federer, Pete Sampras, Stefan Edberg, Adriano Panatta, Ille Nastase, Vitas Gerulaitis, Brian Gottfried, Dick Stockton, .... the list goes on and on....
 
I tend to think its his speed that puts him above the current crop of players.

One commentator gave a good description, that he hits the basic shots very well. But I think his advantage at the moment is that he can get to the ball that bit quicker and therefore he is hitting his shot with those extra split seconds to get his feet and timing right. Where others lack his foot speed, they are stretching or miss-timing their shots a bit more often.

I agree, his volleys and overheads are not the best around, so he cannot be the most complete player.

I think to be the most 'complete' player, he needs to have won all the slams and the ATP final and Olympic Gold. That is the player who has taken on the best, with their individual strengths, and beaten them.
 
MichaelNadal said:
Nadal's serve is really hard to attack, and he places it very well. Almost always serves at 67% and above, and rarely hits double's. I think it's better than good.
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Depends on the scale though. If Nadal's serve is great what does that make Federer's - and to go a bit further what does that make Raonic or Isner's etc...

Compared to the very best it's just good IMO. I'd never knock his serve it's a strength because he places it that so well with such high frequency.
 
Zoid said:
Complete?? The guy is no where near 'complete'. His slice, volleys and overheads leave much to be desired of a world number 1 player. He is an amazing baseliner who has benefitted from homogenised court surfaces across the year. When he is on his backcourt game is definitely one of the best of all time, but that doesn't mean much to me, how often over the course of a career does a player play their best tennis? probably 10% of matches. Champions win when they aren't playing their best, thats what i love watching sometimes, a real fight.
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This is what Djokovic is, in a nutshell.

He's complete enough, for this generation.

If he was truly complete in an all-timer sense, less people would be wondering if his game (as it is) will hold up if he were to be transported to another era with radically different conditions, surfaces and playing styles.
 
Dire_Wolf said:
When he is in the zone, it seems he is playing on a different planet. A his absolute peak he crashed the Fedal party and beat them 10/11 times including a 6-0 against an absolute peak Nadal. It seems when he is in the zone he combines Federer's offense and Nadal's defence to just annihilate opponents. This year he set a record in the WTF for fewest sets lost in the RR stages. He scythed through the AO Champion 6-3 6-0 and double breadsticked the USO champion. I don't think there is another player as dominant when in full flow (save perhaps Sampras on fast hards but even he didn't have as good a return). He mauled Nadal on clay at Rome this year and manhandled Federer on grass at Wimbledon. Incredible when you think about it.

Of course as far as overall achievements go he still has a lot of catching up to do but in terms of pure peak play, surely he surpasses Nadal by a considerable margin and even Federer?
Click to expand...

good comedy poast op.:)

complete player lol..no French open where he gets mauled every year by nadal..and peak djokovic was scythed down at fo 2011by Federer.

also Federer manhandled djoko at wimby 2012 sf, and he flopped at Olympic games and was destroyed by kei at this years uso.
 
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I agree with the sentiment that there are not too many flaws in Novak's game now, but everything is 'manufactured'.

There is no flamboyance or artistry.
 
Rusty669 said:
"Manhandled Federer at Wimbledon"??!did you even watch the match?
As far as I remember he won in five tight sets,to Federer who is over 30.
He has never won against Nadal or Federer if I recall correctly at the French open either.
Fed and Nadal in their prime can handle Djokovic quite well,even though I have to admit they would not beat him everywhere
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Djokovic has beaten Federer at FO. Straight settled him in 2012.
 
Goosehead said:
good comedy poast op.:)

complete player lol..no French open where he gets mauled every year by nadal..and peak djokovic was scythed down at fo 2011by Federer.

also Federer manhandled djoko at wimby 2012 sf, and he flopped at Olympic games and was destroyed by kei at this years uso.
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FO 2011 Federer match had extenuating circumstances. If not for the walkover by FF, Djokovic would have done better vs Federer. If FO is everything then Sampras cannot be a complete player as well? Lemme guess Agassi the most complete ever? Fact is he toyed with Nadal on clay this year and gave him a beating at Rome which has been a Nadal stronghold over the years. He beat a fully fit Federer on grass and should have closed that out in 4. Prime Nadal on clay and world number 2 Federer on grass in a year where Djokovic didn't even play that well. Djokovic is massively underrated by Fedal fans on this board it seems.
 
tennisaddict said:
I agree with the sentiment that there are not too many flaws in Novak's game now, but everything is 'manufactured'.

There is no flamboyance or artistry.
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news_top_spin_4_new_video-10620.jpg


:)
 
Djokovic has a better backhand by far than Nadal, a better serve, better baseline game and better offense in generally. He has a forehand that is on par and a weaker overhead. No way is Nadal more complete as a player.
 
Dire_Wolf said:
Djokovic has a better backhand by far than Nadal, a better serve, better baseline game and better offense in generally. He has a forehand that is on par and a weaker overhead. No way is Nadal more complete as a player.
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The only people with a better forehand than Nadal have either retired or they have left it in the past (Federer).
 
Russeljones said:
The only people with a better forehand than Nadal have either retired or they have left it in the past (Federer).
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I said on par, not better. It is marginal either way. Off clay you could even argue Djokovics is better. The thing is he doesn't just play ping pong with his forehand and wait for the error like Nadal. He takes it to the others. His FH return match point down uso2011 is the stuff of legend. Nadal would never play such a shot in that situation.
 
Dire_Wolf said:
I said on par, not better. It is marginal either way. Off clay you could even argue Djokovics is better. The thing is he doesn't just play ping pong with his forehand and wait for the error like Nadal. He takes it to the others. His FH return match point down uso2011 is the stuff of legend. Nadal would never play such a shot in that situation.
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LoL it isn't on par with the best forehand in the business. Djokovic's forehand is as good as Federer's backhand against Nadal.
 
NatF said:
Murray's slices didn't look that bad...
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Really?? Watch it again. Murray slices looked like mine after a 10-hour work day on a cold evening game. A few times it looked like the ball will hit him in the face before he sliced.
 
tennis_pro said:
Can't smash, can't volley, yeah the most complete.
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hmmm...
IMO, he can do both well. The overhead will always remain as his weakness due to some cruicial points. On the other hand, we have seen the overhead from Federer, indoors, against Wawrinka -- that does not make him a bad smasher...
I also believe he has improved his net game tremendeously in the last 6-12 months.
 
dr325i said:
Really?? Watch it again. Murray slices looked like mine after a 10-hour work day on a cold evening game. A few times it looked like the ball will hit him in the face before he sliced.
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Novak doesn't have a great slice in general really. It's improved though. That example was extreme though due to the wind - I was just having a bit of fun ;)
 
Hitman said:
I am a massive Djokovic fan, but with his overheads, I wouldn't say he is the most complete tennis player in the open era.
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Pretty much how I feel too. If his net game were better then I'd probably say yes but sadly it isn't all that great, although he has definitely improved in that department.
 
Goosehead said:
good comedy poast op.:)

complete player lol..no French open where he gets mauled every year by nadal..and peak djokovic was scythed down at fo 2011by Federer.

also Federer manhandled djoko at wimby 2012 sf, and he flopped at Olympic games and was destroyed by kei at this years uso.
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So you're basically saying that he should be winning every match he plays? :?
 
Dire_Wolf said:
Djokovic has a better backhand by far than Nadal, a better serve, better baseline game and better offense in generally. He has a forehand that is on par and a weaker overhead. No way is Nadal more complete as a player.
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Forehand on par with Nadal?

Clearly a case of fanboyitis delusionalitis

Seek professional help.
 
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