Is Novak in AO 2012 final at his prime?

[llgtennislegend]

Often hear that Rafa almost beat prime Novak in this match, but is Novak really at his best in ao 2012 final ? I think 2011 or 2013 Novak is much better than 2012 Novak. They should comfortably beat Rafa 2012 in straight or 4 sets.

 

[aldeayeah]

Greetings, New User.

I mean, 2012 Novak should have beaten Rafa in 4 sets too. It was a small miracle for Rafa to make it that close.

 

[junior74]

If USO21 is, anything is.

 

[Third Serve]

Thank you for the question, Lord Jesus.

He wasn't necessarily at his absolute best but it was a performance we can look at and say, "yes, he was 100% in form and he played great" so I put it in his prime.

To be honest, that match could have ended in four sets.

 

[Milanez82]

There is a case for AO 2022 to be made

 

[RS]

Sadly this match is proof that AO 2011 Djokovic would beat AO 2009 Nadal 7/10 times.

 

[NatF]

Yes.

 

[Mivic]

Sadly this match is proof that AO 2011 Djokovic would beat AO 2009 Nadal 7/10 times.

Make it 8.

 

[Milanez82]

Best version of Djokovic should beat version of Rafa at AO just like best version of Rafa should beat Djokovic at RG or best version of Federer should beat Rafa at Wimbledon

But things don't work out like that

 

[Biotic]

Sadly this match is proof that AO 2011 Djokovic would beat AO 2009 Nadal 7/10 times.

Could be. Andeeh nearly massacred my boy in the SF.

 

[RS]

Could be. Andeeh nearly massacred my boy in the SF.

Murray played very well but I feel the final was a bit higher in quality

 

[Biotic]

Murray played very well but I feel the final was a bit higher in quality

Especially the 3rd set.

 

[RS]

Especially the 3rd set.

Nah.

 

[Blahovic]

He was in his prime generally speaking, but he made a couple mistakes in the match that nearly cost him the result. And I think he was a bit flat in the 1st, which perhaps was his body warming up.

Rafa really played amazing tennis to escape in that 4th set even though he was being completely outplayed, I couldn't believe it when I was watching. It was the kind of sheer willpower twisting a match only Rafa can do at that level.

 

[Milanez82]

He was in his prime generally speaking, but he made a couple mistakes in the match that nearly cost him the result. And I think he was a bit flat in the 1st, which perhaps was his body warming up.

Rafa really played amazing tennis to escape in that 4th set even though he was being completely outplayed, I couldn't believe it when I was watching. It was the kind of sheer willpower twisting a match only Rafa can do at that level.

2012 AO and 2013 RG were really two gladiators going at it with a few points deciding it.
Funny that both were up a break in 5th and had easy shots on critical points

 

[martinezownsclay]

Djokovic wasn't at his best but Nadal wasn't either. Nadal in both the 2009 Australian Open final and Australian Open semis, and the semis and quarters of the 2012 Australian Open was much better than that match.

 

[martinezownsclay]

Sadly this match is proof that AO 2011 Djokovic would beat AO 2009 Nadal 7/10 times.

Well yes since 2011 AO Djokovic and 09 AO Nadal were both clearly better than the 2012 AO final, which is an insanely overrated match as it is. It wasn't even one of the best matches of that tournament, including other matches Djokovic and Nadal had played in.

 

[beltsman]

Often hear that Rafa almost beat prime Novak in this match, but is Novak really at his best in ao 2012 final ? I think 2011 or 2013 Novak is much better than 2012 Novak. They should comfortably beat Rafa 2012 in straight or 4 sets.

Well if 2011 and 2013 were his prime then yes 2012 definitely was too

 

[King No1e]

Yes. They were both close to their best AO form. Anyone who says otherwise needs to watch all 6 hours of that final again

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Djokovic had completely worked Rafa out during that Wimbledon 2011 to AO 2012 run before Rafa turned things around. It is a testament to the Bull's fighting spirit that the match went on so long.

 

[King No1e]

Djokovic had completely worked Rafa out during that Wimbledon 2011 to AO 2012 run before Rafa turned things around. It is a testament to the Bull's fighting spirit that the match went on so long.

Also I think Djokovic's mental advantage over Nadal during that time is vastly overstated. Of course that period must've stunned Nadal a bit, but if you actually watch the matches Djokovic was simply outplaying Nadal physically and tactically.
He wasn't just benefitting from errors and chokes the way he did with Fed later on, he was outrunning Nadal and blowing him off the court from right on top of the baseline.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Also I think Djokovic's mental advantage over Nadal during that time is vastly overstated. Of course that period must've stunned Nadal a bit, but if you actually watch the matches Djokovic was simply outplaying Nadal physically and tactically.
He wasn't just benefitting from errors and chokes the way he did with Fed later on, he was outrunning Nadal and blowing him off the court from right on top of the baseline.

Agreed, 2011 ironically was one of Nadal's best years level-wise. If Djoker 2.0 doesn't come along he wins three slams in 2011 and holds all four at once WC11, USO11, AO12 & RG12.

 

[Sampras-Bruguera 1993]

Both guys were still in their prime though neither at their peak. 2009 AO Rafa vs. 2011 Djokovic would have been fun to watch. In 2012 Nadal was having confidence issues vs. Nole which kind of played into the match. It wasn't until 2013 that Nadal turned it around with that big US Open win

 

[King No1e]

Agreed, 2011 ironically was one of Nadal's best years level-wise. If Djoker 2.0 doesn't come along he wins three slams in 2011 and holds all four at once WC11, USO11, AO12 & RG12.

Not to mention Miami and the Clay Slam in 2011. Would've still probably lost IW because he played pretty bad there.

 

[Third Serve]

Also I think Djokovic's mental advantage over Nadal during that time is vastly overstated. Of course that period must've stunned Nadal a bit, but if you actually watch the matches Djokovic was simply outplaying Nadal physically and tactically.
He wasn't just benefitting from errors and chokes the way he did with Fed later on, he was outrunning Nadal and blowing him off the court from right on top of the baseline.

Eh, I think that’s deffo the case at AO 2012 and to a lesser extent Wimbledon 2011, but Nadal was very underwhelming at US Open 2011 aside from the one set he won.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Eh, I think that’s deffo the case at AO 2012 and to a lesser extent Wimbledon 2011, but Nadal was very underwhelming at US Open 2011 aside from the one set he won.

Yeah fair enough, he probably still would have still won the title without his old friend Djoker there

 

[RelentlessAttack]

Eh, I think that’s deffo the case at AO 2012 and to a lesser extent Wimbledon 2011, but Nadal was very underwhelming at US Open 2011 aside from the one set he won.

yeah I don’t think that Nadal was that great at the US or Wimbledon. Part of that is Djokovic’s level, part of that is the nature of the matchup, but part of it just Nadal not being quite as good as some of his previous years. Serve was bad much of the year, movement not quite as fast and fitness not quite as good as 2008-10 after starting the year with the AO setback and probably most importantly just poor tactics and court positioning.

 

[RS]

Well yes since 2011 AO Djokovic and 09 AO Nadal were both clearly better than the 2012 AO final, which is an insanely overrated match as it is. It wasn't even one of the best matches of that tournament, including other matches Djokovic and Nadal had played in.

What matches did you feel were better?

 

[Blahovic]

Well yes since 2011 AO Djokovic and 09 AO Nadal were both clearly better than the 2012 AO final, which is an insanely overrated match as it is. It wasn't even one of the best matches of that tournament, including other matches Djokovic and Nadal had played in.

People say this but I'm afraid they simply don't know what they're talking about. Djokovic had just beaten a great Murray and Nadal had just won 2 extremely high level matches against Berdych and Federer. They were #1 and #2. It was their 3rd straight slam final against each other. They were playing at an unbelievable level.

Nadal wins that slam against anyone else. When he got to clay that year he ripped everyone apart except for a tough RG final against Djokovic, his level was extremely high.

It's not their best ever match but it was extremely good.

 

[Third Serve]

Well yes since 2011 AO Djokovic and 09 AO Nadal were both clearly better than the 2012 AO final, which is an insanely overrated match as it is. It wasn't even one of the best matches of that tournament, including other matches Djokovic and Nadal had played in.

What, pray tell, were the real best matches of the tournament at AO 2012?

 

[Deleted member 762343]

You're confusing prime level with peak level. He wasn't at his peak like in 2011 or 2015-2016 but he was obviously in his prime.

 

[Biotic]

I mean, there's no guarantee 2009 Nadal vs 2011 Djoko would've been a much better match.

2012 Djoko was handicapped by that long SF. It was very obvious in the 1st and 5th sets. Other than that, he was prime af.

 

[Sport]

Best version of Djokovic should beat version of Rafa at AO just like best version of Rafa should beat Djokovic at RG or best version of Federer should beat Rafa at Wimbledon

But things don't work out like that

Wrong analogy. Nadal is much more dominant at RG than Federer at WB. Best version of Federer should beat Nadal at WB 7/8 out of 10 times. WB 2008 was one of those exceptional victories from Nadal against peak Federer at WB.

Peak Federer ain't unbeatable at WB, unlike peak Nadal at RG.

 

[Start da Game]

yes he was, nadal was not......

 

[D.Nalby12]

Pretty much peak Djokovic.

 

[mike danny]

Eh, I think that’s deffo the case at AO 2012 and to a lesser extent Wimbledon 2011, but Nadal was very underwhelming at US Open 2011 aside from the one set he won.

Nadal was underwhelming in both slam finals in 2011 vs Djokovic. Might even go as far to saying that 2004 AO and Wimb Hewitt played about as well vs Fed as Nadal played vs Djoko in the 2011 slam matches.

 

[D.Nalby12]

And in 2012 Nadal was displaying fine form. He defeated GOATing Federer and Berdych before. Easily toughest opponent faced by Djokovic in AO final. Apart from Djokovic nobody wa going to beat him.

 

[mike danny]

yeah I don’t think that Nadal was that great at the US or Wimbledon. Part of that is Djokovic’s level, part of that is the nature of the matchup, but part of it just Nadal not being quite as good as some of his previous years. Serve was bad much of the year, movement not quite as fast and fitness not quite as good as 2008-10 after starting the year with the AO setback and probably most importantly just poor tactics and court positioning.

The peak of the rivalry in 2011 was literally Miami LOL. All downhill from there.

 

[mike danny]

People say this but I'm afraid they simply don't know what they're talking about. Djokovic had just beaten a great Murray and Nadal had just won 2 extremely high level matches against Berdych and Federer. They were #1 and #2. It was their 3rd straight slam final against each other. They were playing at an unbelievable level.

Nadal wins that slam against anyone else. When he got to clay that year he ripped everyone apart except for a tough RG final against Djokovic, his level was extremely high.

It's not their best ever match but it was extremely good.

Yes, but they were playing at an unbelievable level only at the AO.

 

[mike danny]

You're confusing prime level with peak level. He wasn't at his peak like in 2011 or 2015-2016 but he was obviously in his prime.

I think 2012 AO form is better than 2015. Wasn't really impressed by his 2015 AO form.

 

[mike danny]

And in 2012 Nadal was displaying fine form. He defeated GOATing Federer and Berdych before. Easily toughest opponent faced by Djokovic in AO final. Apart from Djokovic nobody wa going to beat him.

GOATing Fed is an exaggeration. He was good, but clearly outmatched considering the surface and his age at that time.

 

[D.Nalby12]

GOATing Fed is an exaggeration. He was good, but clearly outmatched considering the surface and his age at that time.

I think Fed would have won on 2017 surface. It was slowest and high bouncing court at AO. That made the difference. I think AO was the best Slam played by Federer in 2012. It's too bad surface was such dead one.

 

[mike danny]

I think Fed would have won on 2017 surface. It was slowest and high bouncing court at AO. That made the difference. I think AO was the best Slam played by Federer in 2012. It's too bad surface was such dead one.

Yes, at that point in time, Fed needed a faster surface to have a chance against Nadal. He'd clearly dropped in terms of athleticism by then.

A Fedal semi on the 2017 court would have been interesting to watch as Fed wasn't yet too old.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Best ever version of Novak was 2011. Total beast mode!

 

[abmk]

Well yeah. Duh.

 

[Djokovic2011]

yes he was, nadal was not......

No version of Nadal was beating Djokovic at the 2012 AO.

 

[abmk]

yes he was, nadal was not......

yes, Nadal was only prime in 2009 at AO.
1 year prime.
just vultured so many finals at AO and obviously AO 22.

 

[abmk]

I think Fed would have won on 2017 surface. It was slowest and high bouncing court at AO. That made the difference. I think AO was the best Slam played by Federer in 2012. It's too bad surface was such dead one.

Wim 12 QF-F was clearly better than AO 12 QF-SF.
But if we consider the back issue affected 3R and 4R matches of Wim 12, it gets closer.