Is online tennis instruction dying?

J011yroger

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
I have been on here since the early 2000s, most of the decent coaches have left. I remember when FYB came out, then the boom of YouTube channels, now we just have a few insta coaches.

Have people figured out that online coaching doesn't work?

Are the platforms making it difficult for content creators to make a respectable amount of money?

Has the novelty worn off?

Tennis is booming but these boards are dying.

What do the next 5-10 years hold?

J
 
J011yroger said:
I have never worked this much in my life.

I had a month of 100+ hour weeks (not all teaching, some court building and prep at my club) and 60-80 has been the norm. Last day I wasn't on a tennis court was Christmas.

J
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He actually said 80, but I assumed he was exaggerating, so I changed the number so it would be believable. Maybe he was shooting straight. I never go by when he is not out on court with a shopping cart full of balls. Then they do pickleball until 10:00pm a couple weeknights.
 
J011yroger said:
I have never worked this much in my life.

I had a month of 100+ hour weeks (not all teaching, some court building and prep at my club) and 60-80 has been the norm. Last day I wasn't on a tennis court was Christmas.

J
Click to expand...

One has to admire the great coaches and their dedication.

I don't know how you guys do it with family and all as most of the instruction I see is weekdays 3PM to 9PM at night and then Saturday and Sunday.

During the summer it is 7 days a week day and night.
 
ballmachineguy said:
He actually said 80, but I assumed he was exaggerating, so I changed the number so it would be believable. Maybe he was shooting straight. I never go by when he is not out on court with a shopping cart full of balls. Then they do pickleball until 10:00pm a couple weeknights.
Click to expand...

I work a pretty normal amount in the winter, as a high performance coach I mostly work with teenagers so I start around 4pm weekdays and finish somewhere between 8&11pm. I do some adults in mornings or during the day, some clinics and stuff mostly for doubles strategy. Weekends are packed, usually 7am start and 5-6pm finish

Once March comes I start working on outdoor clay courts and getting the country club ready. Late April the country club opens and I start at 8 during the week and 7 on weekends but the indoor season still hasn't finished so I go to the academy at 4 and continue until late at night. It's a brutal 6 weeks until mid June when everything becomes wonderful for 2.5 months until September.

In September I coach a private school, keep the country club going on a reduced schedule and work nights at the academy.

November begins the slow season.

J
 
LOBALOT said:
One has to admire the great coaches and their dedication.

I don't know how you guys do it with family and all as most of the instruction I see is weekdays 3PM to 9PM at night and then Saturday and Sunday.

During the summer it is 7 days a week day and night.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure dedication is the right word, I just can't say no. I have a great assistant pro and he is doing very well taking some of the work off of me, just need another one to specialize in the little guys.

J
 
J011yroger said:
I'm not sure dedication is the right word, I just can't say no. I have a great assistant pro and he is doing very well taking some of the work off of me, just need another one to specialize in the little guys.

J
Click to expand...

I miss all that with my son now that he is in college. It is a blast watching teachers teach tennis.
 
I hope so. lol

Those tutorials are such a waste of time and I laugh at anyone who pays for them. You will learn 10x as much just watching match videos of pros, or other rec/amateur players
 
Message boards are dying, everyone likes 30 second videos now. Instagram has so many great 30 clips, but longer content is suffering. Even YouTube has shorts now.
 
J011yroger said:
Lost 5 seniors this year. It's so cool when they come back on break and want to play.

J
Click to expand...
Read this without looking to what you were responding to. I thought the blunt way you put it was a little cold, then the second sentence threw me. What break? There are no breaks! Then I realized HS seniors.
 
I would guess that on-line instruction took off during Covid when people couldn't play much or at all. I personally watched a ton of on-line videos. There was a free week on-line presentations from some coaches during Covid, think I watched pretty much every video. Same thing came around this year and meant to check out some of it but ended up not watching any.
 
Seems like most of the basic tips have already been given. How many videos about how to hit a basic forehand, backhand, serve, etc can one coach do?

Recently I've seen more of these online instructors posting videos hitting (like Essential tennis and Intuitive tennis). Maybe they've run out of ideas for teaching.

I'm glad there are youtube videos with how to hit different shots and for playing different kinds of players, strategy, workouts, drills, etc. I think the novelty of watching amateur players will eventually wear off if you don't gain any kind of insight from it.
 
J011yroger said:
I have been on here since the early 2000s, most of the decent coaches have left. I remember when FYB came out, then the boom of YouTube channels, now we just have a few insta coaches.

Have people figured out that online coaching doesn't work?

Are the platforms making it difficult for content creators to make a respectable amount of money?

Has the novelty worn off?

Tennis is booming but these boards are dying.

What do the next 5-10 years hold?

J
Click to expand...
Yeah the FYB days are over.

It seems like one on one video conferencing with video analysis is the latest trend and the likes of TPA Tennis and 2minute Tennis appear to have taken advantage of that. I like the straightforward TPA approach tbh. My problem with the likes of 2minute Tennis is the regurgitation of the same old material, week after week, and in some cases (imo) the advice is from a certain cookie cutter factory (hit the serve at the peak of the toss) and isn't actually the best although some of his one on one student videos aren't bad.
 
Jolly you must clean up pretty good! I have a FT job selling coffee (yeah not exactly $).

I do 6-9 hours indoor per week in the Winter, mostly assisting the full time guys with the high performance juniors. Takes care of my court time but that’s about it at $30 / hour..even still I think it’s a good deal. Keeps me sharp and is fun. I do not like working with adults…
 
J011yroger said:
Have people figured out that online coaching doesn't work?
Click to expand...

If you’re talking about coaching players to high levels, I’m inclined to believe it could never work. If you’re talking about going from an ugly sliced frying pan serve to serving a rocket flat serve 100 mph in a year, I’m happy to provide you some video footage of how I did it through how-to videos and self-analysis.
 
tennisandtennis said:
If you’re talking about coaching players to high levels, I’m inclined to believe it could never work. If you’re talking about going from an ugly sliced frying pan serve to serving a rocket flat serve 100 mph in a year, I’m happy to provide you some video footage of how I did it through how-to videos and self-analysis.
Click to expand...

I think online coaching videos can work for only a small percentage of people who can translate video instruction to oncourt practice.

The point is that all of the good coaching topics have probably been covered. Essential tennis just came out with a new doubles course, and I love Ian’s passion for coaching, but I’ve see the exact same content already.
 
tennisandtennis said:
If you’re talking about coaching players to high levels, I’m inclined to believe it could never work. If you’re talking about going from an ugly sliced frying pan serve to serving a rocket flat serve 100 mph in a year, I’m happy to provide you some video footage of how I did it through how-to videos and self-analysis.
Click to expand...
A lot of people on here would like to see that, and some will benefit from it I am sure. But I have to say Imo most don't have the patience or aren't willing to do what is required off and on the court to achieve such a result, since as an adult that is a difficult.

If you have a before and after (or even an after) that would be fantastic! I always like to admire the occasional success story.
 
I think the market got oversaturated. However the guys who do well now are genuinely high level players and give great insight (karue, Nikola intuitive tennis, and Jeff salzenstein). The other YouTube coaches who didn't have the pedigree kind of fell off a bit.

There's just a ton of fluff and in my opinion rec players need to get out on the court and get lessons with pros to get better watching YouTube won't help them. It's information overload & So much overanalyzing and overthinking.
 
J011yroger said:
I have been on here since the early 2000s, most of the decent coaches have left. I remember when FYB came out, then the boom of YouTube channels, now we just have a few insta coaches.

Have people figured out that online coaching doesn't work?

Are the platforms making it difficult for content creators to make a respectable amount of money?

Has the novelty worn off?

Tennis is booming but these boards are dying.

What do the next 5-10 years hold?

J
Click to expand...
My guess is that these Boards used to provide far more information than other sources. Nowadays, there are too much information on the net. Most beginner to intermediate level players find more tips that they can digest by following a few YouTube channels.
 
Blakefan17 said:
Jolly you must clean up pretty good! I have a FT job selling coffee (yeah not exactly $).

I do 6-9 hours indoor per week in the Winter, mostly assisting the full time guys with the high performance juniors. Takes care of my court time but that’s about it at $30 / hour..even still I think it’s a good deal. Keeps me sharp and is fun. I do not like working with adults…
Click to expand...

I like working with adults but it's quite different from working with juniors as the focus is different.

Juniors focus on goals and it's up to you to structure the instruction and training to help them get as close to their goals as possible.

Adults focus on what they want to do in the lessons and their goals are a bit more nebulous.

J
 
J011yroger said:
I like working with adults but it's quite different from working with juniors as the focus is different.

Juniors focus on goals and it's up to you to structure the instruction and training to help them get as close to their goals as possible.

Adults focus on what they want to do in the lessons and their goals are a bit more nebulous.

J
Click to expand...

100%

My son is razor focused on getting better.

As older adults my pals and I hit in a group and our goals are:

1. Make it fun (Number one priority)
2. Run us around so we get a great workout.
3. Give us a few tips / pointers for improvement and if you can do it with some sarcasm / flip statement all the better

We are all 40+ and we are headed out to drink beer after the lesson. You aren't going to magically turn our funky forehand into a thing of beauty but if you have a tip on what we should do during a particular situation in dubs our ears will perk up.

I think a key skill of a coach is identifying what your students goals are and then targeting the lesson toward that.

You watch someone my age is going to reply with a different set of objectives.
 
Digital Atheist said:
A lot of people on here would like to see that, and some will benefit from it I am sure. But I have to say Imo most don't have the patience or aren't willing to do what is required off and on the court to achieve such a result, since as an adult that is a difficult.

If you have a before and after (or even an after) that would be fantastic! I always like to admire the occasional success story.
Click to expand...

I believe you’re one of the people who helped me here halfway through. I’ll post video tomorrow. The difference is stark (and I’m no freak athlete).
 
Of course the you tube guys don't disclose revenue--but neither do I for Tennisplayer... But my guess is the "Freemium" model of posting on You Tube then trying to upsell has a very low conversion rate. And of course most of the information is stale and in many cases incorrect or even harmful.
Speaking for myself, I like to publish a lot of varied content from multiple coaches and writers who in my opinion have credibility. You get tired of hearing one voice over and over. Normally I write one or at most two pieces a month. The other thing Tennisplayer has going for it is the archives. Every article and every pro video ever published comes with a subscription--that's 18 years worth! I saw a recent stand alone serve course going for almost $300...
The other big liability is the "magic bullet" mentality. One course and you will play like the pros, hit 100mph serves and monster forehands. Not the way it works in my view.
 
liam the shark said:
I think the market got oversaturated. However the guys who do well now are genuinely high level players and give great insight (karue, Nikola intuitive tennis, and Jeff salzenstein). The other YouTube coaches who didn't have the pedigree kind of fell off a bit.

There's just a ton of fluff and in my opinion rec players need to get out on the court and get lessons with pros to get better watching YouTube won't help them. It's information overload & So much overanalyzing and overthinking.
Click to expand...

I thought Essential Tennis had the most followers.
 
I thought I was the only one who got tired and stopped watching the tennis instruction channels. I think there's only so many times you can watch how to hit a serve or forehand, etc. or any other technical things. I think once you have absorbed enough of the knowledge, the rest is up to you to go out and practice it, rather than sitting on your couch consuming youtube videos all day. IMO, a lot of these videos, regardless of which channel can get monotonous over time. Newer players can probably benefit more from it though.
 
I'm not gonna say there's no value to online video instruction, but tennis is a pretty simple game and there's only so many videos you can make about how to hit a forehand

Ever since I started playing tennis, the quantum leaps forward in my technique have always been where a coach has finessed some element of my biomechanics until it just 'clicks'. I need that feeling in to dial in a reference point for working on something unsupervised - and I have never really it managed with online videos. I just think it comes down to the fact that it's really difficult to hone in on the correct action without the highly-responsive feedback loop that a live coach provides.

The best 'no-coach' video tools are the ones that allow players to overlay video of themselves on reference strokes and sync them up to see the differences (e.g. the Tennis Australia Technique app). But even then, without an experienced eye it is hard to know what to focus on. It's way too easy to focus on the wrong thing, and bake-in bad habits.

I feel like these days online videos have mostly settled into a niche of 'kabuki coaching' - i.e. more about growing a coach's brand and sales funnel for traditional instruction than changing the technique of viewers. This is a strategy that has been used to great effect by private ski instructors. Why pay for advertising when you can chuck a video on YouTube and have advertisers pay you?
 
Last edited:
JohnYandell said:
Of course the you tube guys don't disclose revenue--but neither do I for Tennisplayer... But my guess is the "Freemium" model of posting on You Tube then trying to upsell has a very low conversion rate. And of course most of the information is stale and in many cases incorrect or even harmful.
Speaking for myself, I like to publish a lot of varied content from multiple coaches and writers who in my opinion have credibility. You get tired of hearing one voice over and over. Normally I write one or at most two pieces a month. The other thing Tennisplayer has going for it is the archives. Every article and every pro video ever published comes with a subscription--that's 18 years worth! I saw a recent stand alone serve course going for almost $300...
The other big liability is the "magic bullet" mentality. One course and you will play like the pros, hit 100mph serves and monster forehands. Not the way it works in my view.
Click to expand...

What about this Intuitive tennis guy? He acts like he knows better than everyone out there and always says he's studied things a lot. Another scam artist?
 
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