Is Pancho a top 50 player all time?

Is he?

  • No

  • Yes

  • Who?


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NAS

Hall of Fame
What I have read from different source that Pancho was one of the greatest of his era, some eperts gave him 6 year end number one ranking and some eight(Fed, Rafa both has five year end number one ranking).
Kramer who have problem with Pancho, rated him better than Laver and Sampras, behind only Don budge( this was when Kramer not only have problem with pancho but Pancho once sued Kramer in us court).
One or two times rules were changed because Pancho was dominant and he still kept on winning after rules change so rules were revert back as changed rule troubled other players more .
So going by what I read, he is amongst the very best
 

Drob

Professional
Are you talking about Pancho Segura?

Yes, definitely - top 35-40.

Are you asking about Richard Gonzalez, also known as "Pancho"?

If so, jeepers . . . cannot believe the question or a few of these answers.

I would say @Devtennis01 is undervaluing Gonzalez, but I suppose he might have an argument worth hearing.

@Nole Slam has it about right.

The rests of the posts, including the question, are from Mars.
 

Devtennis01

G.O.A.T.
Are you talking about Pancho Segura?

Yes, definitely - top 35-40.

Are you asking about Richard Gonzalez, also known as "Pancho"?

If so, jeepers . . . cannot believe the question or a few of these answers.

I would say @Devtennis01 is undervaluing Gonzalez, but I suppose he might have an argument worth hearing.

@Nole Slam has it about right.

The rests of the posts, including the question, are from Mars.
I could be undervaluing. I have a definite bias towards more recent ATGs. I was thinking he’d be 12-13. I don’t have that decent an argument though lol.
 

Nole Slam

G.O.A.T.
Are you talking about Pancho Segura?

Yes, definitely - top 35-40.

Are you asking about Richard Gonzalez, also known as "Pancho"?

If so, jeepers . . . cannot believe the question or a few of these answers.

I would say @Devtennis01 is undervaluing Gonzalez, but I suppose he might have an argument worth hearing.

@Nole Slam has it about right.

The rests of the posts, including the question, are from Mars.
Thank you, sir.
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Are you talking about Pancho Segura?

Yes, definitely - top 35-40.

Are you asking about Richard Gonzalez, also known as "Pancho"?

If so, jeepers . . . cannot believe the question or a few of these answers.

I would say @Devtennis01 is undervaluing Gonzalez, but I suppose he might have an argument worth hearing.

@Nole Slam has it about right.

The rests of the posts, including the question, are from Mars.
Top 5 might be a little too high - that honor only goes to Laver, Rosewall, and the current triumvirate IMO. But I could agree with top 10 or top 15 all time.
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Gonzales has a lifetime hth edge over Ken.
But Rosewall won more majors, including all 3 Pro Slams in the same year.
I get the arguments for Pancho but Rosewall just seems to have the more eye-popping resume.

It's like how Nadal also dominated Federer up to 2017 but that didn't mean he led in the GOAT race then. Fed was the more accomplished player (certainly up to 2017, now it's more equal)
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Oh wow kenny over pancho and iceborg? Damn yo
The man won 23 majors. 8 Grand Slams, 15 Pro Slams. And those 8 Grand Slams all came well out of his prime, both way at the beginning and way at the end.

Not to mention he's the same height as Diego Schwartzman.
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
But Rosewall won more majors, including all 3 Pro Slams in the same year.
I get the arguments for Pancho but Rosewall just seems to have the more eye-popping resume.

It's like how Nadal also dominated Federer up to 2017 but that didn't mean he led in the GOAT race then. Fed was the more accomplished player (certainly up to 2017, now it's more equal)
Good God, man, you don't know anything about that era.

Start here and educate yourself. SMH...

 

d-quik

Hall of Fame
Whoa what?
The man won 23 majors. 8 Grand Slams, 15 Pro Slams. And those 8 Grand Slams all came well out of his prime, both way at the beginning and way at the end.

Not to mention he's the same height as Diego Schwartzman.
why isnt he mentioned as much in the goat debate tho?

No topspin bh? Surely that cant be the only reason
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
But Rosewall won more majors, including all 3 Pro Slams in the same year.
I get the arguments for Pancho but Rosewall just seems to have the more eye-popping resume.

It's like how Nadal also dominated Federer up to 2017 but that didn't mean he led in the GOAT race then. Fed was the more accomplished player (certainly up to 2017, now it's more equal)
"Majors" means nothing for the old pros. They never talked about them. The "pro slam" concept was invented years later, after Open tennis had arrived.
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Whoa what?

why isnt he mentioned as much in the goat debate tho?

No topspin bh? Surely that cant be the only reason
He isn't mentioned as much because Rod Laver largely overshadowed him, I guess. Him and Newcombe are massively underrated in the ATG pantheon.
 

NAS

Hall of Fame
He isn't mentioned as much because Rod Laver largely overshadowed him, I guess. Him and Newcombe are massively underrated in the ATG pantheon.
Kramer who didn't even like Pancho clearly said that Pancho was better than Laver and Sampras in his prime and if somebody is given 6 to 8 year's end number one by most tennis analysts then he belong to the goat category
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
Kramer who didn't even like Pancho clearly said that Pancho was better than Laver and Sampras in his prime and if somebody is given 6 to 8 year's end number one by most tennis analysts then he belong to the goat category
Kramer was happy to give very super high rankings to Riggs, Gonzales, and Sedgman because Kramer had won hth series against all three. So he ranked everyone else below them. Funny how that works. Kramer ranked Riggs above Gonzales.
 

KG1965

Legend
Gonzalez's career is difficult to read with the current parameters (slam, majors and slam and majors and slam and majors and slam....) but ultimately it is also very simple.
It's enough to interpret the 7 World Pro Series that he won from 1954 to 1961.
The current media does not count them
, some give the World Pro Series a laughable value, at the time whoever won them was the world champion.
It's all there in the end.
 

Nole Slam

G.O.A.T.
Gonzalez's career is difficult to read with the current parameters (slam, majors and slam and majors and slam and majors and slam....) but ultimately it is also very simple.
It's enough to interpret the 7 World Pro Series that he won from 1954 to 1961.
The current media does not count them
, some give the World Pro Series a laughable value, at the time whoever won them was the world champion.
It's all there in the end.
You're wasting your time since @Lleytonstation is some clueless Canadian Fedal fanboy.
 

NonP

Hall of Fame
Who was it that said any (not-so-personal) men's GOAT list that does not include Gonzales and Rosewall in the top 10 is wrong? Still sounds about right.

Having said that:

Kramer was happy to give very super high rankings to Riggs, Gonzales, and Sedgman because Kramer had won hth series against all three. So he ranked everyone else below them. Funny how that works. Kramer ranked Riggs above Gonzales.
And you're happy to make this self-serving charge against Kramer because his well-reasoned ranking does not portray your overrated pin-up boy in the best possible light.

Everyone is biased whether they realize/admit it or not, and you're just about the last person on earth to impugn anyone else's impartiality. Grow some sense of shame and self-awareness unless you enjoy making a fool of yourself 24/7.
 
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Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
Who was it that said any (not-so-personal) men's GOAT list that does not include Gonzales and Rosewall in the top 10 is wrong? Still sounds about right.

Having said that:



And you're happy to make this self-serving charge against Kramer because his well-reasoned ranking does not portray your overrated pin-up boy in the best possible light.

Everyone is biased whether they realize/admit it or not, and you're just about the last person on earth to impugn anyone else's impartiality. Grow some sense of shame and self-awareness unless you enjoy making a fool of yourself 24/7.
I must have touched one of your raw nerves. There is nothing wrong in pointing out that someone's reliance on Kramer's rankings should be put into perspective. Nothing wrong at all, although some people get touchy about it. Perspective is important.
If you agree with Kramer that Riggs was a greater player than Gonzales, then you have the right to say so. No one is trying to stop you.
There were a couple of "likes" on my post, so it could not have been too bad.
 
Last edited:

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
Are you talking about Pancho Segura?

Yes, definitely - top 35-40.

Are you asking about Richard Gonzalez, also known as "Pancho"?

If so, jeepers . . . cannot believe the question or a few of these answers.

I would say @Devtennis01 is undervaluing Gonzalez, but I suppose he might have an argument worth hearing.

@Nole Slam has it about right.

The rests of the posts, including the question, are from Mars.
It’s mostly just trolling, don’t worry.
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
What is that - trolling? TT is about the extent of my social media interchanges
Trolling is basically just messing around to get a reaction out of people in an online community. Y’know, make em mad or something. There’s lighthearted trolling like this thread (that’s not really intended by the OP to be taken too seriously) or there’s malicious trolling like some of what you see in the General Pro Player Discussion section of this forum.

Here’s the wiki article if you want a clearer description:

 

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
Trolling is basically just messing around to get a reaction out of people in an online community. Y’know, make em mad or something. There’s lighthearted trolling like this thread (that’s not really intended by the OP to be taken too seriously)
I’m taking it very seriously.
 

thrust

Hall of Fame
He isn't mentioned as much because Rod Laver largely overshadowed him, I guess. Him and Newcombe are massively underrated in the ATG pantheon.
Pancho was about 11 years older than Laver, so his best years were before they first played against each other, when Pancho was about 36. When Laver won his Grand Slam in 69, Pancho was past 40 and not winning many tournaments, just a few.
 
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