Is pickleball on the decline already?

sureshs said:
I also noticed that, but the rules say:

Typti does not use the kitchen rule. Unlike traditional pickleball, Typti allows players to volley from anywhere on the court without a non-volley zone, and if the ball hits the net on your side, the rally does not automatically end. Players are also allowed to use parts of their body, such as their feet or hands, to keep the ball in play, which is a significant departure from the standard pickleball rules.
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It's likely an option for players. The kitchen rule makes it a much more difficult sport. One thing about POP tennis is the volleys are too easy closing right on the net.
 
It is an ugly loud obnoxious annoying "sport" whose demise cannot come soon enough.

Made all the worse that these pickel cultists wish to cannibalize tennis courts instead of kindly building their own dedicated courts. It all feels like a bad dream.
:(

Many consider it a cult so the question of whether its on the decline lies in how long typical cults last.
:unsure:
 
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sureshs said:
I think singles Pickleball is more difficult than singles tennis, but maybe just for me.
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Honest question: Does anyone know of a pickleball player, pro or am, who has a serve that's a weapon? Just wondering if it's possible due to the rule constraints.
 
Better_Call_Raul said:
It is an ugly loud obnoxious annoying "sport" whose demise cannot come soon enough.

Made all the worse that these pickel cultists wish to cannibalize tennis courts instead of kindly building their own dedicated courts. It all feels like a bad dream.
:(

Many consider it a cult so the question of whether its on the decline lies in how long typical cults last.
:unsure:
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No one serious and that does not have a financial interest in the idea is suggesting the gentle pastime of pickleball is a sport any more than golf is a sport. :rolleyes:

I noticed that the 2026 AO boys junior singles runner-up (USA till it's backwards!) is the brother of a former UCLA tennis player who now runs a very popular PB YouTube channel. I suggest you take a look at the channel to learn the basics and then try your hand at some PB and it may change your entire outlook on this gentle activity that poses no threat to tennis.

www.youtube.com

Enhance Pickleball

The #1 name in pickleball improvement. Trusted by thousands. Built to help you win.
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
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ultralinear said:
Honest question: Does anyone know of a pickleball player, pro or am, who has a serve that's a weapon? Just wondering if it's possible due to the rule constraints.
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When you watch pro Pickleball, you don't notice the serves. But when you face a 5.0 player, you can understand how their serve is a weapon. Ben Johns' serve has been clocked at 68 mph, and other pros struggle to be anywhere close to it. A fast hard deep pickleball serve with a little topspin which stays low is very difficult to return, and that is one of the reasons all pro players use a 2-handed backhand for the return. The hardness of the ball makes it feel like a bullet.
 
sureshs said:
When you watch pro Pickleball, you don't notice the serves. But when you face a 5.0 player, you can understand how their serve is a weapon. Ben Johns' serve has been clocked at 68 mph, and other pros struggle to be anywhere close to it. A fast hard deep pickleball serve with a little topspin which stays low is very difficult to return, and that is one of the reasons all pro players use a 2-handed backhand for the return. The lightness and brittleness of the honeycomb paddle ball makes it feel like a bullet.
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FIFY
 
sureshs said:
I paid $5 by Venmo today to play
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Makes a huge difference what kind of facility you play at, whether public, private, court surface type and maintenance, whether showers and facilities offered. But one thing is certain….pickleball is way cheaper if that matters to you, don’t have to buy new cans of balls, and you have to accept playing mixed doubles a lot…..and less exercise with a lot of waiting frequently
 
Tenthinker said:
Makes a huge difference what kind of facility you play at, whether public, private, court surface type and maintenance, whether showers and facilities offered. But one thing is certain….pickleball is way cheaper if that matters to you, don’t have to buy new cans of balls, and you have to accept playing mixed doubles a lot…..and less exercise with a lot of waiting frequently
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I usually play for free at a rec center. On Sundays, they are closed so I had to pay $5 to play on the courts of a university.

I don't like Pickleball so waiting is a blessing in disguise. It is only an inddor backup for rainy days and insurance for when all my tennis partners switch to Pickleball as they grow old.
 
sureshs said:
When you watch pro Pickleball, you don't notice the serves. But when you face a 5.0 player, you can understand how their serve is a weapon. Ben Johns' serve has been clocked at 68 mph, and other pros struggle to be anywhere close to it. A fast hard deep pickleball serve with a little topspin which stays low is very difficult to return, and that is one of the reasons all pro players use a 2-handed backhand for the return. The hardness of the ball makes it feel like a bullet.
Click to expand...

Thanks you. Do aces occur in professional pickleball at a similar rate to professional tennis?
 
2 months a go i was in China and this tier 2 city have over 300 courts i was baffled not seeing badminton dominating, u can rent them for just 5$ full ac and u can eat too great cuisine buffets at lunch
 
sureshs said:
I usually play for free at a rec center. On Sundays, they are closed so I had to pay $5 to play on the courts of a university.

I don't like Pickleball so waiting is a blessing in disguise. It is only an inddor backup for rainy days and insurance for when all my tennis partners switch to Pickleball as they grow old.
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I don’t love pickleball either. I tolerate it and do derive some small measure of pleasure from it. But, if I could still play tennis, badminton and volleyball, I’d be playing those sports instead. But, alas, they are too much for my chronically broken aged body.

Table tennis is my primary sport these days. I play pickleball, on occasion, just for the variety — but it is much harder on my lower back than table tennis
 
Sudacafan said:
I have never played pickleball, just for the record.
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I realize no one cares but it's:

1) The sound

-and-

2) The court dimensions that are off-putting to me

The fact that tennis ball companies haven't engineered a less noxious sounding ball is beyond me. Many are more than happy to sell branded paddles and other gear, why not a better (quieter) ball?

My club has 14 tennis courts, a stadium court and two pickleball courts. Both pickleball courts are either busy or oddly empty on weekdays.

This recently opened a few miles down the 101: https://www.calabasaspb.com/

Fine by me. To paraphrase Navratilova, "Since you love pickleball so much, build some courts."
 
travlerajm said:
Pickleball has reportedly arrived in @Sudacafan ’s remote enclave in the jungle. Good for him for holding firm and sticking with team tennis.
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I actually thought of you the other day … which is disturbing. :-D The PPA team that won mixed doubles in the last tournament took the Trav male partner ball hugging to the stratosphere.

For your ball hogging enjoyment:

Alshon (red shirt) often comes close to playing singles with his partner as backup.

btw … you won’t find aces. :-D

 
ByeByePoly said:
You are the one who found the ball “hard” :unsure: on harder serves … you should be the one to research this.
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I did. I could not find a single ace video.

The only Pickle ace I have encountered was from a server whose hand seemed to have slipped on his grip and the ball just crossed the kitchen line very close to the sideline and went out of the court - essentially a very short and wide serve. We all gasped and he was staring at his paddle in disbelief.

BTW, past Sunday I found that my Onix Z5 was unable even to block some hard shots. I really need a better paddle but don't want to spend money on a stupid sport.

Can you send me one of your paddles for free (including free shipping)? You have many good ones you don't use.
 
ultralinear said:
The fact that tennis ball companies haven't engineered a less noxious sounding ball is beyond me. Many are more than happy to sell branded paddles and other gear, why not a better (quieter) ball?
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They have tried a lot to build quiet paddles and balls but it seems it is very difficult to get them to match the characteristics of current equipment.
 
sureshs said:
They have tried a lot to build quiet paddles and balls but it seems it is very difficult to get them to match the characteristics of current equipment.
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It's hard for me to imagine being enamored with the characteristics of what is basically a whiffle ball getting smashed by a hard paddle. An acquired taste, I suppose.

That said, even non-racket sport people seem generally more bothered by the sound of pickleball than tennis. It seems an evolution is in order. Tennis gear has evolved, so should pickleball's.
 
ultralinear said:
It's hard for me to imagine being enamored with the characteristics of what is basically a whiffle ball getting smashed by a hard paddle. An acquired taste, I suppose.

That said, even non-racket sport people seem generally more bothered by the sound of pickleball than tennis. It seems an evolution is in order. Tennis gear has evolved, so should pickleball's.
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In the past 2+ years, I've played pickleball primarily indoors. While outdoor pball sounds can carry a kilometer (0.6 miles) or so, indoor pball sounds don't carry outside the gym very far at all.
 
ultralinear said:
Thanks you. Do aces occur in professional pickleball at a similar rate to professional tennis?
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No. The goal of a great pickleball serve isn't to ace your opponent. The goal is to get a weak/shallow return to make your third shot drop or drive more effective. In pickleball the returner generally has the advantage. A great serve neutralizes that advantage.
 
Judging by the comments so far what I’m reading into it, is that the rise, fall, stabilisation and stagnation of PB varies depending on where we a posting from on this planet. The response is mixed.
Do I think that typti will eat into the PB marketshare ? The answer is I don’t know because it’s too early to say.
I think in Australia, Typti and touch tennis makes a better companion for tennis than PB because you don’t need a hard court so you can play it everywhere and Australia has lots of synthetic grass courts. Secondly the typti racquets have strings so you can implement typti as a progression to tennis more easily,
Do I think PB being around is bad for tennis? It is bad if centres convert tennis courts to PB courts, instead of doing that the PB courts should have been built as an addition to tennis court and some have, right ? I think it also depends on the situation prevalent in the club,.
Another way of looking at PB and it’s relationship to tennis is that it may have given tennis stakeholders the motivation to improve the sport because they have to do so to compete:
 
Dunlop300g said:
Will we ever get our courts back that they stole from us? Where was the USTA when all our public courts were being taken away?
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@ultralinear

I believe that the bulk of public tennis courts in the United States were built between the 1930s and the 1980s. Tennis saw its peak popularity in the US in the 1970s. (Many of the 35+ million players back then were regular players). Participation numbers have dropped off significantly since then… by something 1/4 to 1/3.

In the past decade, the number for tennis has risen slightly, especially since the pandemic. However, higher numbers include a large number of occasional players. The core, frequent players, represent a smaller % of the total.

While tennis participation has increased slightly in the past decade, pickleball participation has increased at a much faster rate. It appears that its numbers have exceeded tennis. The number of regular Pball players is believed to be around 25 million in the US in 2025/2026. If you add in occasional players, that number is about double — around 50 million.
 
The genius of Pickleball was not to use some sort of tennis racquet and ball. Thereby making the games backwards incompatible with tennis.
 
Crocodile said:
Judging by the comments so far what I’m reading into it, is that the rise, fall, stabilisation and stagnation of PB varies depending on where we a posting from on this planet. The response is mixed.
Do I think that typti will eat into the PB marketshare ? The answer is I don’t know because it’s too early to say.
I think in Australia, Typti and touch tennis makes a better companion for tennis than PB because you don’t need a hard court so you can play it everywhere and Australia has lots of synthetic grass courts. Secondly the typti racquets have strings so you can implement typti as a progression to tennis more easily,
Do I think PB being around is bad for tennis? It is bad if centres convert tennis courts to PB courts, instead of doing that the PB courts should have been built as an addition to tennis court and some have, right ? I think it also depends on the situation prevalent in the club,.
Another way of looking at PB and it’s relationship to tennis is that it may have given tennis stakeholders the motivation to improve the sport because they have to do so to compete:
Click to expand...
That all sounds great but if courts are on public land whatever jurisdiction or recreation department governs that land determines what’s best for the public. So, if there are underused tennis courts but tons of PB players you know what the result will be, though of course it takes time and money, and acceptance from neighbours, or other parks users like children, baseball players, dogwalkers etc to make those changes. If PB courts are on privately owned land it’s up to those owners or members, though there would also be some infighting if tennis courts get converted, or taking over other sports land, especially at higher priced public clubs or sports/golf resorts/hotels.
 
Tenthinker said:
That all sounds great but if courts are on public land whatever jurisdiction or recreation department governs that land determines what’s best for the public. So, if there are underused tennis courts but tons of PB players you know what the result will be, though of course it takes time and money, and acceptance from neighbours, or other parks users like children, baseball players, dogwalkers etc to make those changes. If PB courts are on privately owned land it’s up to those owners or members, though there would also be some infighting if tennis courts get converted, or taking over other sports land, especially at higher priced public clubs or sports/golf resorts/hotels.
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Interesting - yes the different ownership structure is another factor to be considered. Here in Australia depending on which state you live and which council area you are in can affect how the courts are used. I will list a couple of different models below:
1. Council own the courts and hire directly to the public
2. Council owns the courts and through expressions of interests offers leases to tennis professionals to run their business as they see fit
3. Council owns the courts and leases out courts to a club and that club appoints a board which appoints coaches etc to provide services to the club
4. Tennis professional buys his or her land, builds his facility and runs their business as they see fit,
5. Private backyard operators running their own businesses
Interested to see what structure is most dominant in the forum here and how it affects daily operations including management of the different racquet sports.
 
Living in a major Canadian city what is most common is #3. Normally the club permit requires being transparent at annual meetings about finances, capital funding for resurfacings, and annual dues within affordability guidelines, since it’s still public land paid from taxes. Also, every club has to allow some public time free for non-members though some clubs are quite stingy on that compared to what they pay for the permits. Electricity for lights outdoors is also paid by taxpayers in most cases. Winter season (6 months) tennis on public land is more like a private club, with much higher fees for memberships and court fees. Most summer players don’t play in winter. Fully private clubs can of course do what they want as I had described depending on how many other services and programs they offer in addition to of course fancier locker rooms, different types of courts, dining/bars etc. And perhaps better quality and paid tennis pros.
 
One other thing. The city also has some fully free courts, usually on basic asphalt surfaces, and wire nets that may stay up all year. Some basic simple maintenance is done on these courts. Half hour self-monitoring tag up rules for playing usually by putting your racquet up in order. Some courts are locked up in winter months for liability though others some hardy players bring their own shovels and clear their own snow before playing!
 
sureshs said:
They have tried a lot to build quiet paddles and balls but it seems it is very difficult to get them to match the characteristics of current equipment.
Click to expand...

I no longer believe foam balls will ever be the solution. We like hitting balls (racket/paddle games) … and we like hearing and feeling the hitting. Although it’s laughable to compare the satisfaction of hitting a tennis ball with strings to anything pickleball, there is an element of hitting/feeling/hearing.

I only play pickleball indoors and there was never tennis courts there … so I am a non-offending retired tennis player. :cool:

Obviously it would vary by location/city … but in many places public tennis courts quit being full and maintained by the city long before pickleball. Fluctuating demand dictates private club numbers … but cities face decisions beyond profit/loss. I started tennis at parks and schools … long before private clubs years. Those well maintained park courts is over in many places. I think one model that probably is workable is one large public tennis facility rather than park courts maintained across the city.
 
ByeByePoly said:
I no longer believe foam balls will ever be the solution. We like hitting balls (racket/paddle games) … and we like hearing and feeling the hitting. Although it’s laughable to compare the satisfaction of hitting a tennis ball with strings to anything pickleball, there is an element of hitting/feeling/hearing.

I only play pickleball indoors and there was never tennis courts there … so I am a non-offending retired tennis player. :cool:

Obviously it would vary by location/city … but in many places public tennis courts quit being full and maintained by the city long before pickleball. Fluctuating demand dictates private club numbers … but cities face decisions beyond profit/loss. I started tennis at parks and schools … long before private clubs years. Those well maintained park courts is over in many places. I think one model that probably is workable is one large public tennis facility rather than park courts maintained across the city.
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The problem with the large tennis facility idea is that tennis players don’t want to go a huge distance to that facility. Many don’t even have a car or drivers license or be willing to pay for parking. So, generally they like more facilities close enough to walk or bike to but the rubber hits the mat when users also need to share the costs in either hourly fees, memberships or some other format.
 
Tenthinker said:
The problem with the large tennis facility idea is that tennis players don’t want to go a huge distance to that facility. Many don’t even have a car or drivers license or be willing to pay for parking. So, generally they like more facilities close enough to walk or bike to but the rubber hits the mat when users also need to share the costs in either hourly fees, memberships or some other format.
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When grass is poking up through the concrete at park courts, the public tennis centers are the only thing that is standing in the way of private club-only tennis. Not an idea btw … public tennis centers already a thing.
 
SystemicAnomaly said:
@ultralinear

I believe that the bulk of public tennis courts in the United States were built between the 1930s and the 1980s. Tennis saw its peak popularity in the US in the 1970s. (Many of the 35+ million players back then were regular players). Participation numbers have dropped off significantly since then… by something 1/4 to 1/3.

In the past decade, the number for tennis has risen slightly, especially since the pandemic. However, higher numbers include a large number of occasional players. The core, frequent players, represent a smaller % of the total.

While tennis participation has increased slightly in the past decade, pickleball participation has increased at a much faster rate. It appears that its numbers have exceeded tennis. The number of regular Pball players is believed to be around 25 million in the US in 2025/2026. If you add in occasional players, that number is about double — around 50 million.
Click to expand...
Build you own courts ... don't destroy tennis courts that are already in use. The noise issue alone is going to kill pickleball or it's going to morph into another racquet sport that uses foam balls. Like our tennis pro uses the PB courts to teach beginning children how to hit with foam balls.
 
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