Is Sampras salty that Djokovic also passed his slam tally?

[DeathStar]

I think Pete was definitely annoyed that Federer passed him and that too so quickly. After that I don't think he cares too much. Actually the fact that Nadal and Djokovic also have 18 & 16 slams and all 4 slams shows that things are definitely different in this generation not necessarily greater. Pete's closest rival of his generation had 8 slams and only 1 person in that generation was able to win all 4 slams and that too after 30 or years.

Remember in baseball when Roger Maris had 61 home runs in a season and that record stood for 37 years till 1998 when 2 guys passed him easily. Few years later 1 more guy broke that record easily. Later it all came out that all 3 of those guys were on steroids. Maybe there is something to that with the top 3 guys absolutely shattering records.

Also in tennis by the time you got to 30 your career was pretty much over. Now guys are not only playing till their mid 30s, but are still at the top of the game. This can be attributed not only to modern training and recovery methods, but also modern medication(i.e. steroids, PEDs)

 

[SaintPetros]

[QU

I think Pete was definitely annoyed that Federer passed him and that too so quickly. After that I don't think he cares too much. Actually the fact that Nadal and Djokovic also have 18 & 16 slams and all 4 slams shows that things are definitely different in this generation not necessarily greater. Pete's closest rival of his generation had 8 slams and only 1 person in that generation was able to win all 4 slams and that too after 30 or years.

Remember in baseball when Roger Maris had 52 home runs in a season and that record stood till 1998 when 2 guys passed him easily. Few years later 1 more guy broke that record easily. Later it all came out that all 3 of those guys were on steroids. Maybe there is something to that with the top 3 guys absolutely shattering records.

Also in tennis by the time you got to 30 your career was pretty much over. Now guys are not only playing till their mid 30s, but are still at the top of the game. This can be attributed not only to modern training and recovery methods, but also modern medication(i.e. steroids, PEDs)

'greed, but Pete wasn't annoyed with Fed for passing him. He just wanted him to appreciate the greatness of the record he'd broken.

 

[SaintPetros]

I don't think any athlete wants his record(s) broken, and don't think any athlete wants multiple players breaking his record(s).

Doesn't make him/her salty (as Fedfans currently are despite their player having the record)

 

[Fiero425]

Borg had the record 11 open era slams and retired with the record..... Pete came and retired with 14 open era slam record.... current record holder may have 1 more slam in him in the next 3 - 4 years.

Even though Borg held the Open record at the time and was a fave player of mines, I never considered him the GOAT! He did amazing things at the time; winning 5 straight Wimbledons and took 6 FO (3 back to back "channel slams" '78-80)! I still set other greats well ahead of him like Laver, Rosewall, Gonzalez, Tilden, Budge, Kramer, Hoad, & a few others who had limited time on the tour; even less time than Borg's 8 years since Amateurs only made expenses playing in those early days! I have to smile thinking back to how so many of us wanted to be part of tennis history; so desperate that we allowed Pete Sampras to ascend to greatness without even playing a FO final! His best chances were in the mid 90's at the height of his powers, but in his best effort he succumbed to the eventual champion in the SF in '96! IDK how anyone could mock others when his record was so deficient in comparison to Fedalovic! They have the most balanced careers in the history of the game since the homogenization of the courts with new technologies in the rackets played with these days! I'm very disappointed in Pete who gave him more props than he deserved at the time! It's almost embarrassing looking back with what's happened in the last decade; the record books stomped on by 3 players in recent years!

 

[undecided]

Even though Borg held the Open record at the time and was a fave player of mines, I never considered him the GOAT! He did amazing things at the time; winning 5 straight Wimbledons and took 6 FO (3 back to back "channel slams" '78-80)! I still set other greats well ahead of him like Laver, Rosewall, Gonzalez, Tilden, Budge, Kramer, Hoad, & a few others who had limited time on the tour; even less time than Borg's 8 years since Amateurs only made expenses playing in those early days! I have to smile thinking back to how so many of us wanted to be part of tennis history; so desperate that we allowed Pete Sampras to ascend to greatness without even playing a FO final! His best chances were in the mid 90's at the height of his powers, but in his best effort he succumbed to the eventual champion in the SF in '96! IDK how anyone could mock others when his record was so deficient in comparison to Fedalovic! They have the most balanced careers in the history of the game since the homogenization of the courts with new technologies in the rackets played with these days! I'm very disappointed in Pete who gave him more props than he deserved at the time! It's almost embarrassing looking back with what's happened in the last decade; the record books stomped on by 3 players in recent years!

What r u saying ? Homogenization is indisputable.

 

[SaintPetros]

What r u saying ? Homogenization is indisputable.

Not on TalkTennis.

 

[Fedforever]

At least Sampras retired with the slam record, other holders may not even hold it long enough to retire with it.

I've been thinking lately about the "what if" that Fed had retired when everyone expected in 2013. The slam record would already be gone, everyone would be watching Rafa and Novak fight it out, their fans would presumably be at war with each other..

Menawhile Fed would be home most nights with a nice bottle of wine, raising his kids and making "appearances" for gob-smacking fees, turning up for arse-licking interviews at the Slams. A nice, relaxing, stress free life.

Wonder if he ever thinks....what if........

 

[SaintPetros]

I've been thinking lately about the "what if" that Fed had retired when everyone expected in 2013. The slam record would already be gone, everyone would be watching Rafa and Novak fight it out, their fans would presumably be at war with each other..

Menawhile Fed would be home most nights with a nice bottle of wine, raising his kids and making "appearances" for gob-smacking fee, turning up for arse-licking interviews at the Slams. A nice, relaxing, stress free life.

Wonder if he ever thinks....what if........

Nah, he'd still be haunted by 23-10, 8-3 for the rest of his days. He made the smarter play to keep going.

 

[DSH]

That’s one of the best and most informed posts this forum has seen in months.

The steroids and PEDs point you make is spot on. And it’s a matter of time maybe years or months that the truth will out. Informed and considered people know that a certain Spaniard is the most obvious.

I think Federer nadal and Djokovic all beating petes slam total definitely works in Sampras favour invthe goat debate because of the points you make. Well done sir.

I would not put my hands in the fire for anyone since in the search for money, glory and fame human beings do everything to get things that seem unattainable;
It is also true that in addition to Nadal, what Djokovic did in 2011 and Federer in 2017 is quite suspicious to say the least.

 

[SamprasisGOAT]

I would not put my hands in the fire for anyone since in the search for money, glory and fame human beings do everything to get things that seem unattainable;
It is also true that in addition to Nadal, what Djokovic did in 2011 and Federer in 2017 is quite suspicious to say the least.

I don’t disagree. Djokovic and Federer are suspicious and I’m a huge roger fan but things are strange when Federer was getting tired in matches in 2007 and 2008 but hasn’t been noticeably tired in a match since his 2017 comeback. But at least Federer has all time great talent and an all court game. Djokovic and nadal aren’t as talented as Agassi, edberg, McEnroe or even Becker.

But in the Spaniards case there is a massive cover up with blood bags in a freezer in Barcelona being destroyed. Majorca is only an hour from Barcelona. The home of all the Spanish cycling cheats.

 

[Deleted member 762343]

I could understand why some think he's not particularly salty and doesn't really care. But happy for all three ? Yeah, maybe in Candy Land, where there are rainbows, pink unicorns and fairies that sing all day long.

 

[SamprasisGOAT]

I could understand why some think he's not particularly salty and doesn't really care. But happy for all three ? Yeah, maybe in Candy Land, where there are rainbows, pink unicorns and fairies that sing all day long.

1 player passing his slam count so soon, yeh fair enough.

2 players passing his slam count so soon, erm that’s a massive coincidence.

3 players passing his slam count so soon, okay something dodgy is happening here

 

[DeathStar]

That’s one of the best and most informed posts this forum has seen in months.

The steroids and PEDs point you make is spot on. And it’s a matter of time maybe years or months that the truth will out. Informed and considered people know that a certain Spaniard is the most obvious.

I think Federer nadal and Djokovic all beating petes slam total definitely works in Sampras favour invthe goat debate because of the points you make. Well done sir.

Thanks man, appreciate it!!

 

[SamprasisGOAT]

Thanks man, appreciate it!!

I’d like the baseball example you used.

 

[DSH]

I don’t disagree. Djokovic and Federer are suspicious and I’m a huge roger fan but things are strange when Federer was getting tired in matches in 2007 and 2008 but hasn’t been noticeably tired in a match since his 2017 comeback. But at least Federer has all time great talent and an all court game. Djokovic and nadal aren’t as talented as Agassi, edberg, McEnroe or even Becker.

But in the Spaniards case there is a massive cover up with blood bags in a freezer in Barcelona being destroyed. Majorca is only an hour from Barcelona. The home of all the Spanish cycling cheats.

Do not you think that since the 70s and 80s there was already the use of peds in tennis players that you consider so talented and for some reason, there are still no reports about it?

 

[DeathStar]

I’d like the baseball example you used.

I got one more for you. In cycyling people had trouble winning 2 Tour de France races and all of a sudden comes a guy that shattered all cycling records & won 7 in a row. Later we found out that he was doping illegaly.

 

[SamprasisGOAT]

Do not you think that since the 70s and 80s there was already the use of peds in tennis players that you consider so talented and for some reason, there are still no reports about it?

No I do not think players from the 70s and 80s took PEDs. Which player from the 70s and 80s are you referring too? They all got tired and fatigued in matches. Until nadal came along in 2005. He’s never been fatigued in his life. In the 2012 Australian open final that Djokovic won but he was way way more tired then nadal. Djokovic collapsed after 2 really long rally’s. Nadal was hardly breathing heavy. Same in the us open 2010 final and 2011 final. The most obvious one is the Australian open 2009 semi and then 5 hour final.

 

[SamprasisGOAT]

I got one more for you. In cycyling people had trouble winning 2 Tour de France races and all of a sudden comes a guy that shattered all cycling records & won 7 in a row. Later we found out that he was doping illegaly.

Yep plenty of historical facts back up what we are saying.

 

[SaintPetros]

They don't call him "Swindlerer" for nothing.

 

[SamprasisGOAT]

Nadal plays the same in 1st set as he does in the 5th set. Well he probably gets faster and fitter in the 5th to be honest. Look at the the other great tennis players. Everyone else fatigued late in matches

 

[Fedforever]

I could understand why some think he's not particularly salty and doesn't really care. But happy for all three ? Yeah, maybe in Candy Land, where there are rainbows, pink unicorns and fairies that sing all day long.

I watched Michael Johnson commentating when Usain Bolt broke his 200m record. He said that he cared very much about the records when he was competing but after you've stopped there's nothing you can do about it and should let it go.

But he didn't look very happy........

 

[SaintPetros]

I watched Michael Johnson commentating when Usain Bolt broke his 200m record. He said that he cared very much about the records when he was competing but after you've stopped there's nothing you can do about it and should let it go.

But he didn't look very happy........

Its called "rationalization". But in Pete's case, it wasn't just advances in sports science and tech, but the ATP itself which conspired against him.

 

[SamprasisGOAT]

They don't call him "Swindlerer" for nothing.

Swindlerer or improverer. How’s he improving at his age! And nadal and Djokovic

 

[SaintPetros]

Swindlerer or improverer. How’s he improving at his age! And nadal and Djokovic

Got a thread up devoted to that very topic as we speak.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

I don’t disagree. Djokovic and Federer are suspicious and I’m a huge roger fan but things are strange when Federer was getting tired in matches in 2007 and 2008 but hasn’t been noticeably tired in a match since his 2017 comeback. But at least Federer has all time great talent and an all court game. Djokovic and nadal aren’t as talented as Agassi, edberg, McEnroe or even Becker.

But in the Spaniards case there is a massive cover up with blood bags in a freezer in Barcelona being destroyed. Majorca is only an hour from Barcelona. The home of all the Spanish cycling cheats.

Oh come off it, McEnroe even referred to using stuff meant for horses until he was told the stuff was too strong even for horses. Um, did he, perchance, stop that stuff in 1985 when his level dropped off a cliff? Korda actually had a slam taken from him for doping. Agassi's test failure was covered. It was around then and it's there now as well. It's just gotten more and more sophisticated, more and more scientific. On top of the dope, the Big Three also train harder and are very careful about what they eat, how much they sleep. They lead robotic lives to enhance the effect of drugs. But don't tell me it wasn't there before, of course it was. What's changed is on top of the trio being ultra-professional, you have ultra-similar conditions to make it easier for them to keep winning slams. Get back the polarised conditions of the 90s and take away poly and you would go back to a more professional version of the 90s tour. I mean, you would see fewer players with weird technique like Berasatagui and you would see more players playing well into their mid thirties like Agassi but in essence, it would be tough again for anybody to go on a three slam a year run. If the Big Three all played together, no chance of either one managing that unless the other two both had a bad year at the same time.

 

[SamprasisGOAT]

Oh come off it, McEnroe even referred to using stuff meant for horses until he was told the stuff was too strong even for horses. Um, did he, perchance, stop that stuff in 1985 when his level dropped off a cliff? Korda actually had a slam taken from him for doping. Agassi's test failure was covered. It was around then and it's there now as well. It's just gotten more and more sophisticated, more and more scientific. On top of the dope, the Big Three also train harder and are very careful about what they eat, how much they sleep. They lead robotic lives to enhance the effect of drugs. But don't tell me it wasn't there before, of course it was. What's changed is on top of the trio being ultra-professional, you have ultra-similar conditions to make it easier for them to keep winning slams. Get back the polarised conditions of the 90s and take away poly and you would go back to a more professional version of the 90s tour. I mean, you would see fewer players with weird technique like Berasatagui and you would see more players playing well into their mid thirties like Agassi but in essence, it would be tough again for anybody to go on a three slam a year run. If the Big Three all played together, no chance of either one managing that unless the other two both had a bad year at the same time.

Korda was taking PEDs
McEnroe and Agassi were taking cocaine and meth which don’t help tennis players.
They both went off the rails and fame went to both of their talented heads.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Korda was taking PEDs
McEnroe and Agassi were taking cocaine and meth which don’t help tennis players.
They both went off the rails and fame went to both of their talented heads.

Mac mentioned horse steroids clearly. And as for Agassi, you go drink that Gil water koolaid if you like, I ain't drinking.

 

[SamprasisGOAT]

Mac mentioned horse steroids clearly. And as for Agassi, you go drink that Gil water koolaid if you like, I ain't drinking.

Your suggesting that McEnroe was on PEDs in his best year the famous 1984 run? Then in 1985 he stopped and started losing?

Watch the 1984 French open final my friend. McEnroe was totally gassed and dead on his feet. Like most players should be after a gruelling 5 hours on the clay against a fellow great.

And Agassi was hardly known for his stamina and fitness was he?

Your companion of nadal, Djokovic and McEnroe, Agassi is way way off

 

[SaintPetros]

Your suggesting that McEnroe was on PEDs in his best year the famous 1984 run? Then in 1985 he stopped and started losing?

Watch the 1984 French open final my friend. McEnroe was totally gassed and dead on his feet. Like most players should be after a gruelling 5 hours on the clay against a fellow great.

And Agassi was hardly known for his stamina and fitness was he?

Your companion of nadal, Djokovic and McEnroe, Agassi is way way off

Who cares? PETE was better than both by a country mile anyways and we know he didn't train as hard as contemporaries like Rafter, so alot of that is pure talent. Sure it sucks that others have surpassed him, but PETE will always be the King of the 90s, and original King of the Slams.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Your suggesting that McEnroe was on PEDs in his best year the famous 1984 run? Then in 1985 he stopped and started losing?

Watch the 1984 French open final my friend. McEnroe was totally gassed and dead on his feet. Like most players should be after a gruelling 5 hours on the clay against a fellow great.

And Agassi was hardly known for his stamina and fitness was he?

Your companion of nadal, Djokovic and McEnroe, Agassi is way way off

I don't know when exactly he was on PEDs but the admission came from his own mouth. By the way, PEDs don't turn you into superman so maybe even those horse steroids could take Mac only so far in terms of stamina. I am not the one comparing Agassi or Mac to Djokodal. It is you who have put them on a lofty pedestal. Why not just admit that with or without PEDs, the latter are superior athletes compared to Agassi or Mac?

 

[DeathStar]

One thing you have to understand about PEDs is that they are not only for endurance/stamina. There are PEDs that make you run faster, jump higher, react quicker, hit shots harder.


Check out this Flex Wheeler interview, especially from the 2:40 mark.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I've been thinking lately about the "what if" that Fed had retired when everyone expected in 2013. The slam record would already be gone, everyone would be watching Rafa and Novak fight it out, their fans would presumably be at war with each other..

Menawhile Fed would be home most nights with a nice bottle of wine, raising his kids and making "appearances" for gob-smacking fees, turning up for arse-licking interviews at the Slams. A nice, relaxing, stress free life.

Wonder if he ever thinks....what if........

That is very true - do you think in some ways that this scenario may have been good for his legacy? Don't get me wrong, him competing at the level he is at 38 is astonishing, I just wonder if a retirement in 2013 would have left enough mystery there to have people wondering...what if he kept playing.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

That's so true! It took 30 years for Sampras to break Emerson's record and Fed just 8 to overtake Pete! Now it seems, the moment Roger retires, he'll probably lose the record for majors with Nadovic right on his arse just 2 and 4 events behind respectively!

What I said is that Pete retired with the slam record.... which is true. Agree about Nadovic / Djokodal - Fed may not get to hold his record until retirement.

 

[miko]

I don't remember him waiting to congratulate Rafa or Novak on passing the 14-mark.

Actually, he was flown to Melbourne during Australian Open 2014. If Rafa had won it, he would have given it to him.

 

[Fedforever]

That is very true - do you think in some ways that this scenario may have been good for his legacy? Don't get me wrong, him competing at the level he is at 38 is astonishing, I just wonder if a retirement in 2013 would have left enough mystery there to have people wondering...what if he kept playing.

It would be interesting to know what he thinks although we would never get an honest answer.

By playing on he has a Davis Cup, three extra Slams, some closure on the Rafa rivalry BUT he's now having a lot of stress and possible heartbreak. I guess only he could say whether the price was worth paying - I'm sure in ten years time he'll think it was but right now?

But in 2013 he looked to be on an irreversible slide so I think we would all have assumed that he would have rapidly headed down into the lower reaches of the Top 20. In that alternate future if anyone on this board was saying in 2019 that Fed would have won more slams if he'd kept playing they would have been told they were off their heads..

 

[titoelcolombiano]

It would be interesting to know what he thinks although we would never get an honest answer.

By playing on he has a Davis Cup, three extra Slams, some closure on the Rafa rivalry BUT he's now having a lot of stress and possible heartbreak. I guess only he could say whether the price was worth paying - I'm sure in ten years time he'll think it was but right now?

But in 2013 he looked to be on an irreversible slide so I think we would all have assumed that he would have rapidly headed down into the lower reaches of the Top 20. In that alternate future if anyone on this board was saying in 2019 that Fed would have won more slams if he'd kept playing they would have been told they were off their heads..

Good points - I think the fact that he is in the top 3 at 38 and won three more slams in 2017 / 18 (essentially preserving and extending his slam record) makes it worthwhile that he played on despite the heartbreaking losses he has suffered.

 

[Fedforever]

Good points - I think the fact that he is in the top 3 at 38 and won three more slams in 2017 / 18 (essentially preserving and extending his slam record) makes it worthwhile that he played on despite the heartbreaking losses he has suffered.

I can't imagine how any of these guys put themselves through it, honestly. I guess that's why they're them and I'm just talking about them!

 

[skaj]

No, he is happy about it, like Graf who had "hoped" for Serena to break her record.

 

[Red Rick]

I love how Pete gets both stamina and peds excuse when the 90's were the absolute peak of the EPO era

 

[thrust]

I've read/heard rumblings about how distant he's been. He should've been on hand to give Djokovic his 14th major title last year.

Why?

 

[Zara]

I don’t know if you live in a cave or not but no record is safe or will remain safe. They will all be broken, eventually. History will tell you that.

You can bask in their glory for now, yes.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I can't imagine how any of these guys put themselves through it, honestly. I guess that's why they're them and I'm just talking about them!