Is Serena on the path to becoming the greatest tennis player of all time?

upchuck

Hall of Fame
Serena went through a period where she took the sport for granted. She got interested in other things, like acting. I remember an interview she gave for a magazine where she said "I'm an actress, a model, and a tennis player--in that order". She was pulling out of events, showing up out of shape, etc. Had she been then as serious about tennis as she has been the last 5 or 6 years she would have 30 or more Grand slams by now and long retired with a big family.
This, of course, is a fundamental truth about Serena's career. She lost the battle for 24 in 2004 to 2007 when she was in a mid-career slump that didn't need to happen.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Slumps happen to even the best players. You could say the same for Djokovic. The battle for 25 is really irrelevant at this stage.

This, of course, is a fundamental truth about Serena's career. She lost the battle for 24 in 2004 to 2007 when she was in a mid-career slump that didn't need to happen.
 

Kapsikal

New User
Lol almost everything wrong... Graf has 4 of every slam title, more number one weeks, better w/l ratio, Golden Slam, more titles. Williams has one slam more in a much longer career and has less of everything else. Graf still GOAT, even if Serena wins the AO.
Graf was lucky Gunter showed up!
 

Maverick13

Semi-Pro
So, does that mean Mayweather is not one of the greatest boxers of all time, because he was never a heavyweight?

Yes actually. Heavyweight is the pinnacle of the sport and any heavyweight would crush him. This is literally the argument as to why Serena can’t be the best. Best woman sure but not best player.
 

Miki 1234

Semi-Pro
So, does that mean Mayweather is not one of the greatest boxers of all time, because he was never a heavyweight?
Its same like running, you have 100m, all the way to a marathon.
They all run , but different category.
Tennis on the other hand is the exact same sport for everyone , same as chess.
So women cant be the greatest tennis player ever in any way shape or form .
They just cant.
 

NonP

Legend
The bit in bold's not actually true though. I don't hear Borg, Laver or Sampras proclaim themselves as the greatest at every opportunity.

Borg and Pistol are just about the two most unassuming studs you're likely to find, while Rod is a strict follower of the old Aussie way. OTOH Budge reportedly boasted (at least in private) that Sampras would do well to get a set off his younger self while touting Pete as the next guy to win the GS, Gonzales was hardly shy about his place among ATGs (Hoad was the only one he could envision himself losing to), and even now you can read Mac between the lines and hear him thinking he'd more than hold his own against the Big 3. And can you imagine how much self-promotion Jimbo would be engaging in if he had as loud a megaphone and a stronger resume to back it up?

That Martina is singled out vs. those guys may require several explanations, but one of 'em clearly makes the most sense. All the more reason why she should keep being obnoxious!

Yeah, that was Kaptain Karl. He was a 50 something man who was convinced that no WTA player could handle his variety of shot.

:-D

Graf is up there. No reason to leave her out.

An unintentional omission on my part. I firmly place Graf among the GOAT pantheon, though the Seles stabbing is perhaps the one valid asterisk in tennis history.
 

Graf1stClass

Professional
Borg and Pistol are just about the two most unassuming studs you're likely to find, while Rod is a strict follower of the old Aussie way. OTOH Budge reportedly boasted (at least in private) that Sampras would do well to get a set off his younger self while touting Pete as the next guy to win the GS, Gonzales was hardly shy about his place among ATGs (Hoad was the only one he could envision himself losing to), and even now you can read Mac between the lines and hear him thinking he'd more than hold his own against the Big 3. And can you imagine how much self-promotion Jimbo would be engaging in if he had as loud a megaphone and a stronger resume to back it up?

That Martina is singled out vs. those guys may require several explanations, but one of 'em clearly makes the most sense. All the more reason why she should keep being obnoxious!



:-D



An unintentional omission on my part. I firmly place Graf among the GOAT pantheon, though the Seles stabbing is perhaps the one valid asterisk in tennis history.
As valid as Venus's compassion for Serena in finals. Seles was still very strong when she returned if you'll recall, to consider that she never had easy matches against Graf. Her performance dropped after she was hit with other personal tragedies in 1996.
 

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
Borg and Pistol are just about the two most unassuming studs you're likely to find, while Rod is a strict follower of the old Aussie way. OTOH Budge reportedly boasted (at least in private) that Sampras would do well to get a set off his younger self while touting Pete as the next guy to win the GS, Gonzales was hardly shy about his place among ATGs (Hoad was the only one he could envision himself losing to), and even now you can read Mac between the lines and hear him thinking he'd more than hold his own against the Big 3. And can you imagine how much self-promotion Jimbo would be engaging in if he had as loud a megaphone and a stronger resume to back it up?

That Martina is singled out vs. those guys may require several explanations, but one of 'em clearly makes the most sense. All the more reason why she should keep being obnoxious!

With the exception of Gonzales, none of the other loudmouth guys you refer to are considered as GOAT contenders though.

Personally, I'd prefer the GOAT (male or female) to not be arrogant about it. But that's just me - I know it's not a pre-requisite.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Serena has followed the yellow brick road and has met the Wizard of Oz only to find she is a conwoman who used to own the Oz Open when no one played it.
 
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Deleted member 688153

Guest
1) 23 Slams
2) 2 of every Slam title
3) Most weeks at number 1/Most consecutive weeks at number 1
4) Olympic gold in 2000, 2008, 2012
5) Most single matches won on WTA

Surely, she is the greatest tennis player of all time?
she doesn't have the slam record. you can't name a single goat anyway in either men's or women's tennis cos several people will always have arguments but if you were going to she'd at least need the records which she doesn't have

court has also done better in doubles too
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The Australian Open is universally decried as a gift until the eighties, so everyone acknowledges this fact except when it comes to promoting Smith/Court over Williams.

If it all is a matter of opinion, as you rightly suggest, then the argument against the AO counts heavily.

she doesn't have the slam record. you can't name a single goat anyway in either men's or women's tennis cos several people will always have arguments but if you were going to she'd at least need the records which she doesn't have

court has also done better in doubles too
 
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Deleted member 688153

Guest
The Australian Open is universally decried as a gift until the eighties, so everyone acknowledges this fact except when it comes to promoting Smith/Court over Williams.

If it all is a matter of opinion, as you rightly suggest, then the argument against the AO counts heavily.
sure, but if you go off to be an actress instead of winning the extra measly couple of slams she'd need to put court behind her without argument then I think it's hard to call her the greatest ever as OP suggests
she's certainly in the discussion as is, which in my view is as far as anyone can go but OP thinks differently so I'm working with that for the sake of argument I guess
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
She also went off to have a baby, so that was a problem as well.

sure, but if you go off to be an actress instead of winning the extra measly couple of slams she'd need to put court behind her without argument then I think it's hard to call her the greatest ever as OP suggests
she's certainly in the discussion as is, which in my view is as far as anyone can go but OP thinks differently so I'm working with that for the sake of argument I guess
 
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Deleted member 688153

Guest
damnit why is the default scrolling direction for macs the reverse one. i wouldn't mind it so much if they weren't so arrogant as to call that "natural" in settings
up for up and down for down is natural ffs
 
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Deleted member 688153

Guest
She also went off to have a baby, so that was a problem as well.
agreed, though I think court did too didn't she? so that's even stevens there. pretty cool that they both did that and came back tbh
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
I invented the term STOAT as slams are a number. GOAT is an argued opinion based on an assortment of evidence.

My point is that 24 doesn't make anyone the GOAT.

I think you can make an argument for any of the Big Tree being the male GOAT regardless of slam titles.

If Djokovic wins today, I'd place him above Nadal and Federer.

And if we have 21, 20 and 19 after Wimbledon then Djokovic is still well and truly the GOAT.

agreed, though I think court did too didn't she? so that's even stevens there. pretty cool that they both did that and came back tbh
 
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