Is Sinner a new kind of the older Djokovic?

Rovesciarete

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I have analysed over the last years a lot of matches and players with a focus on the very best. When I was shifting through the data something strange happened time and time again. The top 50 player closest to Novak seems to be right now Sinner.


First tactics,
here I have sorted after Forehand Win percentage, but look at the inside out, the backhand, the down the line winners. To make things clearer I cut out the six guys in the middle. Very similar trends with two key differences. Jannik is overall considerably more aggressive as a returner and in the rallies from the baseline while Novak serves and volley a lot more these days.

Player​
Matches​
SnV Freq​
SnV W%​
Net Freq​
Net W%​
FH Wnr%​
FH DTL Wnr%​
FH IO Wnr%​
BH Wnr%​
BH DTL Wnr%​
Drop Freq​
Drop Wnr%​
RallyAgg​
ReturnAgg​
40​
5.6%​
74.6%​
12.6%​
71.4%​
12.9%​
17.7%​
13.1%​
7.0%​
19.4%​
1.6%​
28.1%​
-42​
-30​
53​
2.8%​
72.8%​
11.2%​
74.6%​
12.5%​
19.6%​
12.9%​
6.6%​
22.3%​
1.3%​
39.6%​
-20​
-7​


Secondly the serve, here I sorted according to the second serve win percentage. Look also at the ace, first in, hold percentage and point lengths. Nole lands considerably more first serves. While Stefanos has similar, even better outcomes with his first than Novak he is far further away with his second.

RkPlayer
M W%​
SPW​
SPW-InP​
Aces​
Ace%​
DF%​
DF/2s​
1stIn​
1st%​
2nd%​
2%-InP​
Hld%​
1Novak Djokovic [SRB]
84.2%​
69.4%​
68.9%​
398​
8.5%​
3.1%​
8.6%​
63.9%​
76.1%​
57.4%​
62.8%​
87.6%​
4Jannik Sinner [ITA]
82.7%​
68.2%​
67.0%​
471​
8.3%​
2.4%​
5.9%​
59.5%​
76.1%​
56.5%​
60.0%​
88.0%​
2Carlos Alcaraz [ESP]
84.4%​
66.8%​
66.9%​
317​
5.4%​
2.9%​
8.4%​
65.7%​
72.2%​
56.3%​
61.5%​
85.4%​
7Stefanos Tsitsipas [GRE]
62.1%​
69.8%​
68.8%​
440​
9.0%​
2.7%​
7.3%​
63.7%​
78.6%​
54.5%​
58.8%​
88.5%​
12Taylor Fritz [USA]
69.0%​
68.4%​
66.4%​
638​
11.8%​
2.9%​
7.2%​
59.6%​
78.1%​
54.1%​
58.3%​
86.0%​
8Holger Rune [DEN]
66.2%​
65.6%​
66.2%​
370​
7.0%​
4.5%​
12.0%​
62.1%​
72.7%​
53.9%​
61.2%​
83.9%​


Thirdly ranking the return points won. Medvedev is there closest and Djokovic is penalised by his opponents quality. Alcaraz has played more clay than the other three so his return numbers get lifted while his (first) serve numbers get pushed down. But looking at the overall picture Jannik is closest in versus Ace, double fault, first, second and break percentage plus points won per return game.

RkPlayer
RPW​
RPW-InP​
vAce%​
vDF%​
v1st%​
v2nd%​
Brk%​
Pts/RG​
PtsW/RG​
2Carlos Alcaraz [ESP]
42.0%​
41.7%​
4.7%​
3.9%​
34.9%​
53.8%​
30.9%​
6.8​
2.9​
3Daniil Medvedev [RUS]
40.7%​
40.7%​
4.2%​
2.8%​
32.9%​
54.0%​
29.9%​
6.5​
2.6​
1Novak Djokovic [SRB]
40.6%​
42.4%​
8.7%​
3.2%​
32.3%​
54.9%​
27.9%​
6.8​
2.7​
4Jannik Sinner [ITA]
40.4%​
41.6%​
7.5%​
3.3%​
32.1%​
54.0%​
28.2%​
6.7​
2.7​

Obviously I'm not saying that Sinner is the new elder Djokovic but it is surprising how tied they are tactically, as serves and returners.
 
Absolutely, he is Djokovic lite, except has a bigger propensity to generate spin. Novak is of course better in every aspect of the game, most notably athleticism, mentality, and general toughness. But you can see the vision
 
I have analysed over the last years a lot of matches and players with a focus on the very best. When I was shifting through the data something strange happened time and time again. The top 50 player closest to Novak seems to be right now Sinner.


First tactics,
here I have sorted after Forehand Win percentage, but look at the inside out, the backhand, the down the line winners. To make things clearer I cut out the six guys in the middle. Very similar trends with two key differences. Jannik is overall considerably more aggressive as a returner and in the rallies from the baseline while Novak serves and volley a lot more these days.

Player​
Matches​
SnV Freq​
SnV W%​
Net Freq​
Net W%​
FH Wnr%​
FH DTL Wnr%​
FH IO Wnr%​
BH Wnr%​
BH DTL Wnr%​
Drop Freq​
Drop Wnr%​
RallyAgg​
ReturnAgg​
40​
5.6%​
74.6%​
12.6%​
71.4%​
12.9%​
17.7%​
13.1%​
7.0%​
19.4%​
1.6%​
28.1%​
-42​
-30​
53​
2.8%​
72.8%​
11.2%​
74.6%​
12.5%​
19.6%​
12.9%​
6.6%​
22.3%​
1.3%​
39.6%​
-20​
-7​


Secondly the serve, here I sorted according to the second serve win percentage. Look also at the ace, first in, hold percentage and point lengths. Nole lands considerably more first serves. While Stefanos has similar, even better outcomes with his first than Novak he is far further away with his second.

RkPlayer
M W%​
SPW​
SPW-InP​
Aces​
Ace%​
DF%​
DF/2s​
1stIn​
1st%​
2nd%​
2%-InP​
Hld%​
1Novak Djokovic [SRB]
84.2%​
69.4%​
68.9%​
398​
8.5%​
3.1%​
8.6%​
63.9%​
76.1%​
57.4%​
62.8%​
87.6%​
4Jannik Sinner [ITA]
82.7%​
68.2%​
67.0%​
471​
8.3%​
2.4%​
5.9%​
59.5%​
76.1%​
56.5%​
60.0%​
88.0%​
2Carlos Alcaraz [ESP]
84.4%​
66.8%​
66.9%​
317​
5.4%​
2.9%​
8.4%​
65.7%​
72.2%​
56.3%​
61.5%​
85.4%​
7Stefanos Tsitsipas [GRE]
62.1%​
69.8%​
68.8%​
440​
9.0%​
2.7%​
7.3%​
63.7%​
78.6%​
54.5%​
58.8%​
88.5%​
12Taylor Fritz [USA]
69.0%​
68.4%​
66.4%​
638​
11.8%​
2.9%​
7.2%​
59.6%​
78.1%​
54.1%​
58.3%​
86.0%​
8Holger Rune [DEN]
66.2%​
65.6%​
66.2%​
370​
7.0%​
4.5%​
12.0%​
62.1%​
72.7%​
53.9%​
61.2%​
83.9%​


Thirdly ranking the return points won. Medvedev is there closest and Djokovic is penalised by his opponents quality. Alcaraz has played more clay than the other three so his return numbers get lifted while his (first) serve numbers get pushed down. But looking at the overall picture Jannik is closest in versus Ace, double fault, first, second and break percentage plus points won per return game.

RkPlayer
RPW​
RPW-InP​
vAce%​
vDF%​
v1st%​
v2nd%​
Brk%​
Pts/RG​
PtsW/RG​
2Carlos Alcaraz [ESP]
42.0%​
41.7%​
4.7%​
3.9%​
34.9%​
53.8%​
30.9%​
6.8​
2.9​
3Daniil Medvedev [RUS]
40.7%​
40.7%​
4.2%​
2.8%​
32.9%​
54.0%​
29.9%​
6.5​
2.6​
1Novak Djokovic [SRB]
40.6%​
42.4%​
8.7%​
3.2%​
32.3%​
54.9%​
27.9%​
6.8​
2.7​
4Jannik Sinner [ITA]
40.4%​
41.6%​
7.5%​
3.3%​
32.1%​
54.0%​
28.2%​
6.7​
2.7​

Obviously I'm not saying that Sinner is the new elder Djokovic but it is surprising how tied they are tactically, as serves and returners.
You really did a lot of work here. Good stuff.
 
Ah, the "he plays like my favourite player" game has began :D

Did we reach a conclusion on Alcaraz, or did we settle on a fusion?

Forza!
 
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Nice to get a confirmation by the Goat himself! It was Sinner’s third consecutive Lexus ATP Head2Head victory against Djokovic, and the Serbian was later asked if he sees any of his own abilities in his younger rival.

“All around, every shot he's got in the game,” said Djokovic in his post-match press conference. “He's improved his serve tremendously. I think that became a big weapon. He's just very aggressive from the baseline, as soon as he's got a shorter ball, he's taking the initiative. Just very solid from forehand and backhand, doesn't make too many mistakes, and just tries to take away the time from the opponent.

“That's something that reminds me of myself throughout my career, that's what I've done for so many years consistently. Playing fast-paced tennis, taking away time from the opponent, kind of suffocating the opponent, in a certain way. You want your opponent to always feel under pressure from your shots, from your speed, from your presence on the court. So he's got that. This year he's been so consistent. It's really, really impressive.”
 
Classic Djokovic against current Sinner:

Overall ‘new’ Nole’s last forty matches show almost the exact same proportions of backhand slice and fh/bh split as all the 583 of his career charted on Tennis Abstract. However his SnV frequency has doubled and yet his win rate has increased to an excellent 78%. He is going from more and his baseline potency has gone, slightly on the forehand and more so on the backhand. Lots of DTL winners in his recent sample.

Sinner is using SnV exactly as much or little as Novak did over his career, but with a higher success rate. Slightly less drop shots but a higher win percentage. He goes less to the net but once again with a markedly higher efficiency.

His current winner rate is higher across the board, apart from the backhand cc which trades-off with his superior inside-out numbers.

Obviously such a comparision of a 66 matches by a Sinner entering his prime with the 583 of almost two decades will unfairly flatter the former. Still it is insightful to compare the current Janni with the career stats of the GOAT.

The biggest difference between classic Novak and the current Jannik lies in the serve-return dynamic. Over the years returning has become harder while the servers have upped their game.
 
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The thing that Sinner and Djokovic have in common, apart from the granite solidity of their game, is that they make extremely complicated aspects of the game seem easy.
For this reason, they appear boring in the eyes of many people.
 
Classic Djokovic against current Sinner:

Overall ‘new’ Nole’s last forty matches show almost the exact same proportions of backhand slice and fh/bh split as all the 583 of his career charted on Tennis Abstract. However his SnV frequency has doubled and yet his win rate has increased to an excellent 78%. He is going from more and his baseline potency has gone, slightly on the forehand and more so on the backhand. Lots of DTL winners in his recent sample.

Sinner is using SnV exactly as much or little as Novak did over his career, but with a higher success rate. Slightly less drop shots but a higher win percentage. He goes less to the net but once again with a markedly higher efficiency.

His current winner rate is higher across the board, apart from the backhand cc which trades-off with his superior inside-out numbers.

Obviously such a comparision of a 66 matches by a Sinner entering his prime with the 583 of almost two decades will unfairly flatter the former. Still it is insightful to compare the current Janni with the career stats of the GOAT.

The biggest difference between classic Novak and the current Jannik lies in the serve-return dynamic. Over the years returning has become harder while the servers have upped their game.
Very interesting. For me backhand depth and control is key common factor.
During last match with alcaraz I have noticed, but would like to find stats on this, a strong intention to always start from alcaraz backhand, keeping him deep on the court. On that backhand cc , Nole has been able to gain control and maintain his flow/pace. Alcaraz tried to slice some balls, but was not enough.
 
During last match with alcaraz I have noticed, but would like to find stats on this, a strong intention to always start from alcaraz backhand, keeping him deep on the court. On that backhand cc , Nole has been able to gain control and maintain his flow/pace. Alcaraz tried to slice some balls, but was not enough.

Carlos has a great backhand and he can loop it high, but he attacks flattish with it, risking more. Novak can take time away and go deep with good weight of shot, which makes it much harder for Charlie to attack. This works not as well on a slower, higher-bouncing court as he can run around more and unload with his forehand.

Slicing isn’t that great against Novak as he can play off it nicely on both wings and with attacking intent too. Helps more against Medvedev, who can’t generate much pace.
 
Did now use newer data for Sinneraz and compared them to the stats in the first post. Let us look at the tactical aspect:

Player
Matches​
SnV Freq​
SnV W%​
Net Freq​
Net W%​
FH Wnr%​
FH DTL Wnr%​
FH IO Wnr%​
BH Wnr%​
BH DTL Wnr%​
Drop Freq​
Drop Wnr%​
Novak Djokovic
40​
5.6%​
74.6%​
12.6%​
71.4%​
12.9%​
17.7%​
13.1%​
7.0%​
19.4%​
1.6%​
28.1%​
Jannik Sinner
53​
2.8%​
72.8%​
11.2%​
74.6%​
12.5%​
19.6%​
12.9%​
6.6%​
22.3%​
1.3%​
39.6%​


Lots of talks about how Jannik has become a more complete player and he also says he has improved. However he goes less to the net, for the drop shot and for the SnV while making more winners from the backline. His efficiency at the net and with the drop shot has gone down.

Sinner is really becoming is some sense more like the early Djokovic. Maybe he should try more things out in earlier rounds.

Keep in mind that aggressive players with a weaker serve should have lower winner percentages. Brutal quality from Sinneraz.

Player
Matches
SnV Freq
SnV W%
Net Freq
Net W%
FH Wnr%
FH DTL Wnr%
FH IO Wnr%
BH Wnr%
BH DTL Wnr%
Drop Freq
Drop Wnr%
Jannik Sinner66
2.3%
74.8%
9.7%
74.3%
15.4%
19.4%
16.3%
8.2%
27.3%
1.4%
32.3%
Carlos Alcaraz53
6.9%
73.2%
13.2%
72.4%
19.1%
26.4%
16.6%
8.1%
24.2%
2.9%
39.1%

Charly's style looks totally different from Novak but both are much closer when it comes to net play and SnV.
 
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